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 Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:32 am
I thought this might be interesting so I thought I'd go through with it.
What do we think of sensible ideas versus those that are completely estranged from the rest of the genre?
In most fantasy worlds you'll find humans, elves and dwarves, etc...
However, in a small number of cases there are creatures that are just downright weird. The same goes for other ideas and not just races, but I have to use them as one example.
The one thing I hated in Final Fantasy IX was the animal people. Humanoid hippos etc. It just doesn't work for me. However, animal people that have a unique design are a bit different. I find the Viera in Ivalice (FFXIII and tactics) interesting, and the moogles as well. However there are some that just make me cringe - aka the hippo people. The other one that made me blink and think "wtf!?" was from FFIX again and that was Quina Quen.
So, what does everyone think of sensible concepts versus the ones that are completely weird? I am talking about one particular side of the word "weird" though, please understand that. Weird is good in other ways, but it's this particular fashion that I am interested in talking about.
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Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:18 am
I made this thread almost a week ago guys. Is it that boring a subject?
I thought it'd be quite interesting.
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:26 am
It's not boring, it's rather interesting! Problem is I can't seem to recall whether I've come across something weird. I'm pretty sure I have, but I can't remember what.
Hm. Seems there's a lot I can't remember or remember only partly, yet people say I have a good memory? gonk
I must agree, though, that some of the creatures from FF are strange. Some are cute, but most are just plain... weird. So's the combat system. I've never been able to play FF because of it. I can handle D&D's turn-based combat, but not FF's; it annoys the crap out of me. No offence to the FF lovers.
I'll try to think very hard about other weird things.
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:47 am
Well there are a lot of things that are downright weird.
FF's battle systems are easy to get used to for the most part I find. Each to their own I suppose. Anyway, I'm talking about the things that make sense to you in fantasy compared to the things that are just so farfetched that it makes you wonder where the ideas came from. A lot of anime combines both of these concepts.
Most anime will make sense up to a point, but in the second half or final third of a film or series it tends to get very warped.
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:16 am
I think "weird" is a little relative. It's all about suspension of disbelief, and how far something can go before it tips over that cliff from believable to not. I haven't played Final Fantasy, so I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about or if I'd be able to suspend my disbelief far enough for me to feel like it fits. The art of fantasy is to find that place which stretches the mind, but doesn't push it over, and maybe the person who designed that part of the game just has the ability to stretch his mind a little farther than the average person?
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:38 am
Well it still comes under "weird" for all intents and purposes. I'm not just talking about suspension of belief, it's to do with everything that's just more than a little bit strange.
For example...
Quina Quen from FFIX.
As far as suspension of belief goes, this creature just made me think "WTF!?"
You don't even know whether it's a he or a she, or both. So, the character is referred to as he/she in the translation. neutral
Now if we move on to another weird concept in Final Fantasy (not just in FFIX though), it's bizarre yet it has more clarity in my mind.
The summoned creature (eidolon), Atomos.
The creature Atomos, is essentially a wormhole and has various gravitational attacks. It was originally a boss, but later in the series it became a summon - Atomos. One of its original attacks was named "wormhole" as well.
The concept of this creature is strange and bizarre, but it's intriguing. Quina Quen just made me think "what's the point?" and as useful as he/she may be in terms of the abilities he/she can gain, I never liked having this character in my party.
There are a lot of people who will use Quina, and actually like him/her. Personally, he/she adds some amusement to the storyline, but otherwise I just think "only the Japanese could come up with something like that!" ^_^'
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:41 pm
Um, what it is? *pokes it* Yeah, that's tipped over even MY weird scale, which is really saying something. It totally goes against everything I've ever thought about FF, though I don't think about FF much in general. But from spending several months in Korea, I can see how they'd enjoy something like that.
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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:06 pm
I thought they might tip the weird scales over a bit too far; especially Quina.
I actually find Atomos to be a rather interesting idea though. A living wormhole...hmm...? That sounds exceedingly frightening and dangerous to me. The fact that such a creature would have to be intelligent as well in order to know what it's doing as well. The point of something like that being a summonable creature means it does what the summoner tells it to do, so it's a bit like a mercenary.
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:12 am
I liked the burmecians in FFIX the were really good with spears and even if the are walking talking rats I still found them to be the coolest characters of the game. I'm still kinda confused though on weather or not garnets teacher is a man with a very large nose or some kinda animal.
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:23 pm
Doctor Tot you mean. He's a mole.
The Burmecians are interesting, but the fact they're rats kind of bugged me though. I suppose they're a better idea than fleas (jumping up to ridiculous heights I mean). Humanoid animals just make me cringe for the most part, despite the fact that we humans are in-fact a type of animal. We're distinctly different, and I simply couldn't imagine what Freya's body structure is like underneath her attire. I mean, are the Burmecians just elongated rats with elongated arms and legs that can stand upright, walk, talk and fight? Do you females have breasts like that of a woman, or do they erm...have err...teats down...there? You know, it really makes me think "wtf!?" and the more I think about such things the more likely I am to suffer mental enemas.
For all intents and purposes, I liked the idea of the Burmecians, and I suppose rats to have a bit more dexterity seeing as they do in-fact have hands and feet. they're fast and they can be lithe in the form the Burmecians were given. However, humanoid hippos were seen in FFIX as well. In the name of all that's sacred NO! Please don't make me explain why that idea gives me a mental enema, it should be obvious! gonk
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:08 pm
I may not be familiar with FF, but I do find some concepts odd in fantasy and so on. However, isn't that the point of fantasy, to create strange creatures that do not necessarily make sense?
Whatever humans can imagine becomes part of some group of fantasy lovers. I could make a world where I have animals in the form of dice with sticks as arms. It may not be weird to me and some other people, but for the rest that are used to dragons and elves, it can be very obscure.
It all depends on the person and what they see as strange or awesome.
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:11 pm
Oh I can appreciate the very strange and weird things in fantasy, it's just when they get too surreal that I find myself wavering a bit if not erratically. I fully appreciate the way that Square made Final Fantasy IX, but there are a number of things in that world that don't seem plausible to me, such as the idea of Quina Quen and two-legged talking hippos. I just can't see those things as being believable, but I loved the world and the game nonetheless.
When it comes to reading and writing though, I don't think I could like those things. At least in The Animals of Farthing Wood the animals were still animals. They spoke, but they were still animals and they still couldn't communicate verbally with human. The Animals of Farthing Wood was a cartoon series based off books in case of people in the guild having never heard of it before.
I simply couldn't read or write fantasy without there being explanations in place or lack of plausibility. Cartoons and games are something different to me though. I know it's sci-fi but most of the things that happen in Futurama are completely surreal, unrealistic or wacky but it's still sometimes amusing to watch. The same goes for Red Dwarf. That show has me in stitches a lot of the time no matter how many times I watch it. There are 8 series of Red Dwarf and it's completely insane - that too is sci-fi but a lot of it is utterly silly, but that's the way I like it.
Perhaps it's because I like to look for realism when I am reading or writing something that I believe SHOULD be believable. I don't know! rolleyes
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Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:13 pm
A few out of this world fantasy I can think of are the Abarat series (which I liked for it's outlandishness) and a good few others that didn't do a good job at all of being out there. I think if a writer wants to deviate from the average fantasy races and creatures, they need to think it through a lot. My stories have creatures called Dawn and Dusk and unusual races, but it takes more work than just having the average fantasy aspects. You can't just throw something in, you have to know the race or creature like anyone would know about elves and dragons to make it believable.
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Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:49 pm
DM_Melkhar I made this thread almost a week ago guys. Is it that boring a subject?
I thought it'd be quite interesting. Sorry Mel, I can't believe I never noticed this thread! Bad Hypno, bad! *slaps self* Anywho... I agree with you on the Vieras and Moogles but I still haven't seen the hippo people you speak of cuz I have never even tried FF9. I wish it could be remade for the DS but, that's easier said than done... I remember tons of weird creatures in games so I don't know where to start! I've also seen very strange ones in FF3 (which I'm currently playing) and some are obviously very similar to others I've seen before. Whether they are from the same saga (Final Fantasy) or a similar one. I guess creatures like goblins are just sensible, right? They also seem to be very popular cuz I have yet to see a fantasy game without them. Well, maybe Etrian Odyssey but I didn't really like that one anyway. I agree that the Quina Quen from FF9 is amazingly weird indeed. I wonder who came up with that one and what they were smoking when they did. rolleyes
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:32 am
I guess the most viable explanation is....it's the Japanese. There's not an anime I've seen that isn't twisted or really weird in some way. Half the time the story makes sense up to halfway through a series, and then for the rest of it you're thinking "what the £$%&!?"
But that's what we love about them right?
Westerners love the weird and the wonderful, but their concept of fantasy in the writing and film sense is more on the western view. The Japanese of course will look at all manner of different views and mythology when they create games and anime etc, but they'll always add something of their own in there too.
When it comes to a fantasy world in my view, the ones that are in games and anime should stay there. In books and films (LotR as an example), I think it needs to be more plausible. I love surreal, don't get me wrong, but if there's the possibility of worlds like this existing, I find myself constantly searching for clarity so that the possibilities exist. My world is more accepting of the supernatural than ours is, to put it in a nutshell.
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