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LordNeuf
Crew

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:30 pm


Many modern communists try to distance themselves from the atrocities committed by people like Kim (as in Kim Jong Il), Mao and Stalin to name a few.

Communism killed 200 HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE and I'll I got was a lousy t-shirt. But enough about them... they aren't considered "Real Communists" anymore.

Communism started under the Marxist ideals state that the trouble in society is when a small ruling class exploits the much larger working classes and the only way to protect the mass of people is to reduce the power of the ruling class and make the workers control the country.

This was championed by Leon Trotsky and Vladimir Lenin. Who's only difference really was their name.

They both lead the October Revolution, Lenin became Primere, Trotsky the Commisar of the people.

However the Communist system, allowing only one party to rule, the worker's party which no one could challenge without being demonized as an imperialist. Because Communism countries are also Socialist countries, this led to the goverment owning and maintaining all means of production and industry. This removed the average citizen's means for self support. Free enterprise, entrepreneurship and innovation in industry was only allowed with the goverment's approval. The government set the prices on everything from hotel rooms, to telephone service to how much grain cost and how much you could have of these things. It didn't matter if they made a profit, it was for the people, feeding those who could not feed themselves, and even if they could feed themselves, the communist government made sure everyone got the same thing, nothing more, nothing less.

To many people this sounds like a good thing. Heck this practices is even used in many Kibbutz in Israel. The workers of the farms work to support themselves, all get paid equally, all live in the same conditions, and all have to support the society.

HOWEVER... you can choose to leave a kibbutz

Communism as a government, has the party pick who will rule the party by a collective of party members who have shown distinction to the communist cause. True believers electing other true believers without people being allowed to vote.

This leads ALL Communist Governments down the road to Totalitarianism. When the Government not only controls all the industry, but also how families can be structured. With knowledge of how much food, land and supplies could be allocated, communist governments can control the amount of the population by allowing parents only one or two children each. How do they control that? you may ask? Well they do run the hospitals... they have access to everyone's records.

"You have three kids? Fine... We're only gonna allow you to collect food for two of them, and only two of them will go to school... choose wisely."

Everyone gets only what they need, no more, no less as dictated by the government. Fall outside the parameters and you're cut off.

And that's only ONE thing I have against Communism.

I await your rebuttal.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:29 pm


Are you aware I started a topic right beneath you with the same thing? blaugh

I am well aware that the USSR and China were/are not actual Communist states as theory dictates. But, I still feel that Communism is a stupid idea. Not only is so unrealistically impractical (since people are greedy and will never feel equal to each other. Yes, I have a cynical but realistic view on human nature), but also not a great idea to begin with. People will never be able to function without some sort of government/rules since there are too many that just don't care. Furthermore, with Communism there is no incentive to strive beyond what you're supposed to do.

For example, Person A with an IQ of 300 is designated to be Nameless Factory Worker 1. Person B with an IQ of 65 is designated to become a farmer. While Person A would be able to improve efficiency by 300% percent, he can't. I have a lot more to say, so I'll edit this later, but I have to log off.

darkphoenix1247
Vice Captain


LordNeuf
Crew

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:54 pm


darkphoenix1247
Are you aware I started a topic right beneath you with the same thing? blaugh


Yeah but I'm a lot more long winded, so I probably started earlier and finished later.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:05 pm


I love it when commies say "bla bla wasn't really communist." When the USSR did something good, they take pride in it. When it did something bad, they'll say "Well, the Soviet Union wasn't really communist". Fact is, no country will ever be communist (small c) because it's an impossible anarchist utopia only a hippie would believe in. But if Communist (capital C) states are anything to go by, I'll take eeeeevil bourgeoise kapitalism any day of the week.

My grandpa was a member of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. Now he votes for the centre-right Coalition. Just goes to show, he never believed in that far-left bull anyway. xd

DanskiWolf


LordNeuf
Crew

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:55 pm


Well usually it's just kids in Che Guevara T-Shirts who have no idea what he was other than a communist who was killed in exile for being a communist, going against the grain and being a revolutionary and all that.

Funny thing is... it was Castro that had him killed.


Tomorrow we will discuss...
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:02 pm


We have a teacher at our school who seems to be in love with Che. One day a kid asked her why Che was killed (I don't think he knew Che was a commie or anything) and she goes on some rant about how America is "biased against left-wing countries". Opposing totalitarian regimes makes you "biased against left-wing countries"apparently... stare

DanskiWolf


LordNeuf
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:03 am


DanskiWolf
she goes on some rant about how America is "biased against left-wing countries". Opposing totalitarian regimes makes you "biased against left-wing countries"apparently... stare


Well... it is the Truman Doctrine. To contain communism and spread western democracy. It shaped American politics for the next 30 years. We spent hundreds of billions of dollars on foreign aid and propping up collapsing governments to make sure they didn't go communist.

One primary reason we won the cold war is that we could shovel money into the fire faster and with more efficiency than the soviets could.

Not everyone agreed with this plan, but to be fair the soviets did the same thing. Any country that had a grudge against America or Western Style Governments got a great deal on soviet military arms. Which is why Soviet Era Katusha rockets kept flying out of Lebanon into Israel for quite some time.

It was old but it still worked, soviet military tech was cheap to produce, easy to maintain and quite rugged. Meanwhile Iran's fleet of F-14s they got from America hasn't flown since 1990-something since they ran out of spare parts.

So basically, Americans would give aid to democratically elected governments while Russia would give aid and arms to anyone who wanted them.

That's not to say that Russia only supported Communist countries, they would also sell arms to anyone who couldn't afford the American arms.

Before, during and after the fall of communism the world market was flooded with Soviet Arms. They would sell openly and on the black market. It's one of the reasons we have a lot of private armies, terrorist cells and rebel forces in the world armed with Soviet Tech.

Ever seen a Mozambique Flag? It represents the 3 things that brought freedom to their country from Portuguese and South African influence. Knowledge, Hard Working Farmers...

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And AK-47s.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:55 am


Quote:
Well... it is the Truman Doctrine. To contain communism and spread western democracy. It shaped American politics for the next 30 years. We spent hundreds of billions of dollars on foreign aid and propping up collapsing governments to make sure they didn't go communist.


Yep, I know. What I meant to say is, she thought America's opposition to communism was a bad thing and she seemed to imply that America opposed any left-leaning country (I suppose that means America is enemies with itself when the Democrats are in power...)

DanskiWolf


LordNeuf
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:19 am


DanskiWolf
Quote:
Well... it is the Truman Doctrine. To contain communism and spread western democracy. It shaped American politics for the next 30 years. We spent hundreds of billions of dollars on foreign aid and propping up collapsing governments to make sure they didn't go communist.


Yep, I know. What I meant to say is, she thought America's opposition to communism was a bad thing and she seemed to imply that America opposed any left-leaning country (I suppose that means America is enemies with itself when the Democrats are in power...)


Well... I said for 30 years... it eventually kicked the bucket.

And from what I understand, American libs are no where near as intolerable as say... canadian libs.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:34 am


Our main leftists here in Australia, the Labor Party, are pretty tolerable. Too many anti-Israel members though. I'd never join 'em for that reason (amongst other reasons).

DanskiWolf


darkphoenix1247
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:22 am


Neuf- xd that's awesome! I never noticed that!

Danski: I do agree there were many places we shouldn't have gotten involved on, so I'm a little with your teacher on that part. But, she took that way too way. I think honestly if we hadn't gotten so involved in stopping communism, it probably would have collapsed anyway in many of those smaller, poor countries especially.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:54 pm


But how many people would have died if communism had taken even longer to collapse? Hell, I'd have been born in Soviet Russia rather than Israel.

DanskiWolf


LordNeuf
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:49 pm


DanskiWolf
But how many people would have died if communism had taken even longer to collapse? Hell, I'd have been born in Soviet Russia rather than Israel.


How's this for a connection...

If the Soviet Union didn't collapse, we would still have The Twin Towers in NYC.

I'll see if you can connect the dots.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:21 pm


LordNeuf
DanskiWolf
But how many people would have died if communism had taken even longer to collapse? Hell, I'd have been born in Soviet Russia rather than Israel.


How's this for a connection...

If the Soviet Union didn't collapse, we would still have The Twin Towers in NYC.

I'll see if you can connect the dots.


You talking about the CIA's funding of Bin Laden in Afghanistan?

DanskiWolf


LordNeuf
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:09 am


DanskiWolf
You talking about the CIA's funding of Bin Laden in Afghanistan?


Eh not quite.

The Russians were against the Mujahideen in Afghanistan.

USSR got involved in the civil war supporting the socialist government of Afghanistan, against radical extreme Islam, who started the civil war by resisting the Government's efforts to teach women how to read and beheaded several government agents... no really, that's how it all started.

Long story short, the USSR lost. Many soldiers who were sent to fight in Afghanistan, as well as their families and the families of those lost in the war, became disillusioned to the Soviet cause, which led to the Soviet Union's collapse.

If they had won, they would of beaten the Mujahideen, the civil war would be over and Al Qaeda would of never come to power.
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