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crystalsmuse
Captain

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:50 am





Title really explains it all...

Why do you believe in evolution or creation? Or are you undecided/agnostic?

Baby Spoon:
Should schools be allowed to teach creationism alongside evolution as part of their science curriculum?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:18 am


I see you are setting up for ranting this evening, crystal. I thank you. -bows-

Now. Just to go ahead and get it out there... I am agnostic. I do not believe in God, but that doesn't mean I throw away the possibilities of other forces. I am currently keeping an open mind, yet a lot of what has been told to me seems complete ludicrous, minus evolution and the way of science. (i.e: space, Big Boom theory, etcetera) No, do not get that confused with Scientology. Pigs would sprout wings and fly about my head before I ever went towards that point of view.(No offense, it's just odd to me, extremely.)
I don't really know what to believe in, so I just stick with hoping an answer will appear. I don't fret about an afterlife, or if I'll go to Heaven or Hell. I am simply enjoying what was placed in front of me and trying to live this life to its fullest.
I do lean greatly towards the idea of evolution. It's much easier for me to feel comfortable with it than the idea of God, honestly. I don't feel confused and it makes a LOT more sense than what I was taught as a child being forced to go to church every Sunday with my father.

On the topic of school, I think students should be able to decide what they want taught to them. It is just wrong to force them into something that they do not believe in. Yes, the parents have quite a large amount of say-so in their children's life, (duh) but shouldn't they be given freedom to choose what will deeply impact their life for the rest of it they live?

iPumperdiddle


crystalsmuse
Captain

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:16 am





I do believe in creation.

Let me expand on why I believe this:
I believe creation CAN be scientifically explained (at least it makes sense to me...). I do believe in the big bang. But what MADE the big bang? Things just don't explode from nothing. First there was nothing and then it exploded? I can't believe that. I believe that God had an explosion of creation and created the big bang. Everything in that bang created the earth.

Barg, here I go... Here is my attempt at explanation.
The cosmos has a unique center and a boundary for its matter, beyond which there is at least some empty space; and on a cosmic scale of distances, the earth is near the center. The Universe has a center.
A star is a continuous explosion of awesome power. The power to create a universe with a billion galaxies, each with a billion stars, is beyond imagination. To create matter and energy can only be done by a Creator that is outside of nature.
The creation of the laws of nature themselves demonstrate a even greater power. These laws are balanced so that our sun provides the energy to us day by day. These laws are balanced so the molecules within us can use that energy.
Balance keeps the billions of stars in billions of galaxies burning.
If the laws of nature were just slightly different, the delicate balance would not exist between hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon. Without this balance thousands of critical molecular interactions would not happen. There are only a few elements that can sustain life through their unique properties. Any change would make life impossible. Proof (to me) of intelligent design.
Our solar system is filled with amazing planets, but none are perfect for life except the earth.
Each planet in our solar system demonstrates that earth is unique and specially created for life.
Our sun is perfectly located in our galaxy.
The spiraling arms and center of this galaxy contain many stars set close together, giving off its characteristic brightness.
Other galaxies—older, smaller, elliptical, and irregular—are missing the proper amounts of elements necessary to maintain the right balance of stars and planets required to support life.
Some stars explode into supernovas, causing deadly radiation to flow through nearby stars and planets.
The center and arms of galaxies are flooded with high amounts of radiation. Most stars are located in places with too much harmful energy for life.
Our solar system is located about two-thirds of the way out toward the edge of the Milky Way, where we are least likely to suffer collisions with other stars. Most of the stars in our galaxy are in the larger spiral arms or in the center. Because there are few stars near us, there is a low amount of radiation surrounding our solar system. And we can observe the rest of the universe and our own galaxy much better.
Because there are few stars near us there is a low amount of radiation surrounding our solar system. And we can observe the rest of the universe and our own galaxy much better, therefore our planet is perfectly located within our solar system.
Our solar system also contains thousands of asteroids and meteoroids. These sometime collide with planets. Jupiter keeps large rocks from hitting earth by attracting them with its strong gravity.
The earth's huge moon also protects us from many of rocks that cross our planet's path. The craters across the moon's surface demonstrate the frequency something has collided with the moon instead of earth. The moon's South Pole—Aitken basin—is the largest known crater in our solar system. It is eight miles deep and 1500 miles across. The earth's moon is unusually large.
In addition, our huge moon is a stabilizing anchor for our planet. Our moon prevents our planet from tilting too far from the attraction of the sun or Jupiter.
We are protected by how our solar system was created.
Our planet was created for life.
Earth has a strong magnetic field. This protects us from harmful radiation from the sun.
The fossil record reflects the original diversity of life, not an evolving tree of increasing complexity. There are many examples of "living fossils," where the species is alive today and found deep in the fossil record as well.
In the entire fossil record, there is not a single unequivocal transition form proving a causal relationship between any two species. From the billions of fossils we have discovered, there should be thousands of clear examples if they existed.
The lack of transitions between species in the fossil record is what would be expected if life was created.
And to me, the miraculous complexity of life is evidence of creation and intelligent design.
Scientist cannot explain why humans cells degenerate and we die. In the bible it talks about Adam and Eve, who lost their eternal life due to sin. I believe that God inserted in to humankind the disease of death.

The belief that ALL of this just HAPPENED from NOTHING by COINCIDENCE doesn't make sense to me.

Crap, I could go on, but I doubt anyone would read it...

Also, on the school spoon:
Evolution is an unproven theory about the origins of life. Both creationism and evolution are faith-positions, given that both are attempts to explain the past, which is in principle beyond direct scientific examination and verification. If we are allowed to teach one, we should be allowed to teach the other. 3nodding


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:27 am



Woah, kudos on the explanation, crystal. =D

For me, I guess it's hard to believe in a form of religion because it felt terribly alien. Whenever I was taken to pray at the alter, I just pressed my face into the cushioned fabric wondering what in the world was going on. I had tried hard to please my father by attempting things like that, but it... gar, it's hard to explain! I'd have to say it felt as though I were being touched harshly by a stranger and that my body just didn't seem to want it.
So, after years of that, I let myself wander, allowing a little bit of everything in and seeing what there was.
I too cannot see this world being here for no reason at all and it doesn't make sense to me, but it's hard for me to accept faith when it just doesn't feel right.
Normally, I shy away from religion and kind of go about peacefully, not worrying myself to much. I am always curious of what the real truth is, but I doubt we will be getting that very soon. On the other hand, maybe it'll come to us very soon. Time will tell.

iPumperdiddle


crystalsmuse
Captain

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:35 am





I can understand that. 3nodding

I just wish everyone in the world could respect other people's beliefs... I don't ever think that'll happen, though.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:42 am



Given the current time we live in, A LOT more people are tolerable of other beliefs, religions and opinions than what they originally were. I think they should be... it makes the world a friendlier place to live in. However, I can understand if the belief is insane and just ridiculous, (killing just for the heck of it) then there is reason to be against it.

iPumperdiddle


crystalsmuse
Captain

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:01 am





ARE there people out there who believe random killing is okay? xd


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:46 am



You'd be surprised. I've spoken to some people like that and it just disturbed me, though I haven't seen them since.
But I was just searching for something as an example that made me feel completely uncomfortable.

iPumperdiddle


The Great Lion
Crew

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:11 pm


Random killing? In a discussion about creationism? I must have missed something since I don't have the eyes to read both of your annoyingly fine print posts. BTW, I'm back from my camping trip ^_^. I don't see how random killings are justified, just to throw my two cents in there, there's no point or purpose to randomness. Revenge killings, eyes for eyes and all that I do agree with, revenge is a healthy outlet. But enough about that, maybe another thread for such a thing aye muse?

I'm not sure if this was touched upon, but iPumperdiddle, agnostic means you do believe in a god, but you don't follow a religion. Atheism is to have no belief in a higher power, just wanted to correct you on that. I too am an atheist mostly because believing in any form of god seems down right hilarious when quite thoroughly one can break down the workings into strained and complex mathematics.

Obviously, I believe in creation, but I have nothing against creationism. I, like muse, believe that there is a creamy pink centre to this argument where theists and atheists can come to a parallel by simply saying that the science based "big bang" was merely a product of a god's handiwork.

As above, I merely believe in creationism because I've studied subjects related to the creation of planets, evolving mammalian and the sort. If a theist can present me with a rational explanation, not proof, just a down to earth, rational explanation that does not contain the words "faith" or "belief" I might take to it. But as far as I'm concerned, faith and belief fall to the gullible, I've never seen proof that praying works, its merely a form of meditation that may or may not act to centre someone before performing or making an action. Preparedness is what I put stock in, studying, training, vaccination, et all.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I find a sort of mysticism in creation. Just try and imagine the impossible expanse of the universe, planets and stars form from mass that gathers around denser mass. Its like the particles want to become something, that the mass that make up this world wanted to become this. Its silly, a little romantic, but I don't know, its an interesting thought. I mean where does life really come from? Randomly evolving bacteria that only survived the frozen and blistering nuclear heat of space? I can almost see someone writing the math for it all, happy humming a tune as he or she pens in what is about to happen next, as if chapter by chapter galaxies evolve and grow and stabilize. Ah, just me dreaming out loud.

I'll try and read your posts later, its kind of 1AM and I have just enough energy to write this and be off to bed.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:29 pm


Alright first and for most, I am a Christian. I believe in God and Jesus. But this isn't really all about religion. Even though I must say, I am not gullible....I have my problems just as anyone else has theirs. And really, in my opinion, creationism really does explain all of what we have.

First off I must say I have already done a little project with this and we couldn't use religion. But we found our way to present the information.

Mainly it is up to whoever to believe whatever they want to. Most of evolution comes down to the human mind. And creationism comes down to the faith of a higher power existing. For me personally that is a God who isn't distant. No he is right here with me. But that is a religion discussion for another time.

Really evolution and creation contradict eachother. You can not believe in both. And the evolution theory doesn't state anything about how life began or that humans evolved from monkeys. Those is just a theory under the theory of evolution. The theory of evolution I kind of agree with to an extent.

I believe that God created everything and that is how we are so complex. Seriously. But how I can kind of believe evolution TO AN EXTENT, is how the human mind works. But that could also be an explination to the whole Creation thing to. This is how I know my God is awsome.

God made each of us differently. He made eveything the way it needed to be. He did a bunch of things for us. He made walls fall and he sacrficed his son for us. There are many things in the bible that corlate with history so I know my bible is true.

But being truthful...I don't really read my bible. I don't know why. But that is my mini confession.(no I am not catholic) I know enough and have seen enough to know what I believe in is true.

Well back off the topic of religion.....Tadpolls becoming frogs? Well I consider that growing, not evolving. But the other side tried to used that in there presentation. It was funny as all get out. But back on topic. That is pretty much it. I don't think I left anything out. Only one thing left to add. It has to do with what I said earlier. About the two contradicting the other and how you can't believe in both. There was this web sight that was all for creationism. and it used the bible to discredit evolution. I think it had some good points. I really need to find that site...

Well that is all for my ranting^.^
~Krazy

mulegeek2


Juicy Kobold

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:05 pm


Religion isn't science, it's belief. Science is based on facts. The two are almost antonyms.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:51 am


I'm an atheist, so i do not believe in God, or the creation story. I never have given a thought to any supreme beings out there with the power to point at the earth and say "Let there be light" and light appears.

And if there is a God, has he looked after the world well? Look at it; Global Warming, third world debt, illness, diseases, extinction of species, murders, bombings- does this evidence point to a kind God, who guides people to their future? Christian teachings suggest that God has chosen a path for everyone. Does this mean that God DELIBERATELY decided to give some people peaceful lives and deaths, lead others to suicide?


O.O anyway, i'm going off topic (already...) sweatdrop


Though, neither do i believe that there was a Big Bang.

It seems stupid to me, really, that scientists can think up of such a weird idea just by detecting radiation. How do they know that that radiation came from the big bang? It could just be from a star millions of miles away or something.

How did this supposed small ball of densely packed matter get there in the first place?? Does this mean there was something before the universe started? Does this mean that there was a universe there before? If this is so, then the whole theory is nullified. They are supposed to be finding a time and way that the universe came into existence. If there was something before the big bang, then the universe already existed.

Personally, i think that, once scientists find out more about the world, they will come up will a more justifiable theory.


But i do believe in the evolution story. Everything must have come from one point. How come no-one found traces of human bones carbon-dated to the same time as dinasaurs lived? Because they didn't exist as the human form we recognise today.

Anyway, enough of my ranting ^.^
If anyone would like to contradict any of my points, feel free. I do love a good debate on religion~

Sphenni

Friendly Lunatic



giliras


Agent Bard

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:22 pm


let me saysomthing here.

people get this confused *cough* crystalsmuse *Cough*Cough*

there was never "Nothing" there was always something here.

you mix religion and science my friend. (no flamming intended.)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:38 pm


I'm reserving a spot here for when I have time to give this a well-thought out answer, so for now:

Religious ideas about the universe (i.e. creationism) should not be taught in a science class. If they are going to be taught in schools, there should be a seperate class for them, like "Alternative Theories" or something, because they cannot be called "science". Learn them in another class, go ahead, just not in a science classroom.

Henneth Annun


Just Tsuki

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 6:58 am


i dont follow a religion and i have never had done but i do believe that there is something beyond what we understand; i generally refer to this as the Big Cheese.

scientific ideas such as the Big Bang and evolution makes sense to me but in the end they are just the best guesses we have to explain the world around us.

religion generally tells us that mythical beings or deities created the world and watches over us ect. i think that if there is a Big Cheese then he/she/it created us and everything else by via the Big Bang and evolution.

on the question about teaching the Big Bang theory and Creationism together in a science class: Creationism (assuming you are talking about the Christian version) is purely religious and therefore cannot be taught in a science class which is more focused on teaching things that can be backed up with evidence and can be explained relitivly easily (meaning that quantum physics is probably easier to describe that what God is). also to teach Creationism in science is not fair on people who follow other religions as they may have their own creation story. e.g. the Shinto religion Japan was created when a spear was stired in water and then the water dripped off it to create land and the various Kami and lands were born from Izanami and Izanagi.

all in all the Creation story should be taught in RE as something that people who follow the Christian religion may believe and theories like Big Bang and evolution should be taught as what scientists think as what possibly happened.

sorry if that a bit long or if i've managed to annoy someone.
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