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Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:59 pm
I know there was a thread similar to this, but I forgot what it was called. Anyway, just found this article on CNN. Read the comments.
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Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:47 pm
The comments are quite closed minded. It's also a bit annoying/discouraging to see 20 "Why didn't he just pray in his seat" comments. sweatdrop
It does make me wonder why this guy chose to daven like that though. If he would have done so before in the airport (trust me, with all the waiting they make you do there, he would have had enough time, even if he waited until they started boarding) or waited until it was at the right altitude to be alright to take your seatbelts off, no one would have had a real issue with it, as far as I can tell. I've seen people get up and just stand around in the aisles before at higher altitudes, so I know it shouldn't be too big of a deal. I understand that men are bound by time restraints to pray, but it still seems like he could have chosen a better time to do so.
This doesn't mean I agree with kicking the guy off the plane, it probably took them longer to kick him off than it would have to wait the couple of minutes he needed. Plus, he apologised for the holdup.
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Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:05 pm
I thought about that too, but I thought there were specific times to pray. I've seen Orthodox Jews praying in the airport, it's actually really interesting to watch. That was in the terminal though.
Perhaps he felt highly compelled to pray on the plane, or thought it would be more private than out in the middle of the airport. Who knows. Sometimes you just wanna talk to G-d, you know it?
My favorite comment was by the guy talking about "showmanship". I've never really thought of davening as "showing off", and I think it's kind of funny that non Muslim/Jews find the way we pray attention seeking.
Someone brought up an interesting point though (in the comments). If it were a Muslim pulling out his prayer rug, there would have been mass pandemonium. It's not really relevant, but it's true. I'm all for praying in public though, and I don't think he was holding up much by saying a 2 minute prayer. You taxi for 10 times that if you're lucky!
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Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:48 pm
But by a "specific time", it's not like it is down to the minute. The prayers must be completed by a certain hour of the day. The hours are counted from the time the sun rises, so they vary from season to season and day to day by a bit (google Zmanim to get more specifics on times certain prayers and such need to be done by), so I suppose it is conceivable that it was quickly approaching one of those times and he had to do it because he put it off too long or something. It probably would have been a better idea before boarding, but whatever.
Yeah, I saw that comment. Usually reading the general public's comments with regards to religious matters (and racial matters) makes me quite depressed. The number of people who equated this man's prayers with the 9/11 terrorist attacks is also sad and ignorant. crying
When I read it, I thought about the few times I've seen mothers with disagreeable children hold up flights. The flight attendent usually just tries to get the parent and child into a seat, and it usually takes a couple minutes. The flight attendent never thought of kicking them off the plane for it...
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Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:05 pm
Everyone has dealt with a fussy child, not many understand holding up a flight for prayer. Unless your Jewish or very culture, you wouldn't understand why he ignored the flight attendant and why he was doing "strange things". To some people, it would be alarming. I posted a similar article about an Orthodox Jewish man praying on a subway in East Chicago, Indiana. He had his tefillin on and someone thought it was a bomb or something.
World religions should be a required class or something. I think it would make peace and understanding much more achievable if people actually had to sit down and think about other's religions instead of just gathering half-truths and stereotypes. It's frustrating.
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Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:50 pm
I've actually been stuck on a plane with a swarm of chassids doing the wayfarers prayer for a safe journey.
We missed our flight window and were delayed an hour and a half.
They weren't taken off the plane, but it sure ticked off a lot of people on it.
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:17 am
I didn't see what time the plane was taking off, in the article, but it was entirely possible that -- as has happened to me often -- the man had gotten up early, dressed, and run for his bus/train, thinking "I'll be able to daven in the airport, and I won't miss my time." He doesn't pray on public transit because he's watching his luggage from theft, and because he doesn't want to miss his stop (or he's in a taxi, but the taxi driver is talking, and his wife and/or kids are asking things like "Did I leave the iron on?" and he can't concentrate. Plus, reading in a car is very hard on the eyes because of the constant need to refocus when the vehicle jiggles due to rough roads.
Then the bus/train is delayed with traffic/accident/bomb threat on the freeway. By the time one gets to the airport, one's plane is boarding. He thinks, "Well, I'll daven on the plane." He gets on the plane. There are delays with boarding. He FINALLY gets on, then checks his watch and realizes he's only got five minutes left before he HAS to start praying. Rather than wait five minutes and then get up DURING takeoff, he starts now, while he still has time because other people are boarding, and he speed-davens. He does have plenty of time, or at least he would, if not for the constant interruptions from people using the bathroom before takeoff and from flight attendants who need lessons in etiquette (not interrupting someone who's praying).
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:23 am
Under certain circumstances one is allowed leniency in being able to sit down for prayers. I have physical problems and can't always stand without great pain, and I'm allowed to sit. It's better to sit and pray than not pray at all, if the situation exists, I should think. I prefer to have the right kavanah and take my time and do it sitting that 'speed daven' with flight attendants bugging me, passengers trying to get around me, and then being dragged off the plane.
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:57 pm
Oh those Chassids, wrecking havoc. xp
I'm sure given the opportunity, he would have done it differently. Maybe he just never would have dreamed he would get that kind of reaction. I know I wouldn't. Okay, maybe around here...but New York City? Surely most New Yorkers have seen such a thing before. But, it's unfair to assume that, I guess.
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