|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Galad Aglaron Vice Captain
|
 Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:06 pm
There are explanations for Joan of Arc's actions and visions, ranging from genuine spiritual experiences to epilepsy to plain insanity. Regardless of whether she was a nutter, epileptic or saintly, she achieved great things in a very short amount of time. So which do you think she was?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:31 pm
I personally, being a firm believer in Christ, think she was divinely inspired...to an extent.
For all I know, God went to an insane person who was fearless. Insane people are either fearless or fearful. She was fearless.
Go God! mrgreen
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:27 am
I'm not a strong believer in Christianity, but I do believe there is a power out there greater than our own.
One thing I can say for certain though is that she was a great woman. Secondly, she may of had visions that told her what to do, but what if she made it all up? Maybe she saw it as the only way that people would listen to a young woman on the matters of war, especially in the fifteenth century.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:03 am
That's a possibility I hadn't considered. A girl hears the legend of the Maid of Reims or Maid of Orleans or Maid of Lorraine or whatever it is she was supposed to be, and decides to take matters into her own hands. Learn to ride, learn to use a sword, fake a few spiritual experiences, save your country. Of course, she would have had to convince Charles... VII, I think it was? Because she was supposed to have shown him a vision of Saint Michael.
French politicians of every persuasion have invoked her memory through the ages. It's amazing; her name lives on centuries after her. Even I have drawn inspiration from her from time to time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Galad Aglaron Vice Captain
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:18 am
I've heard the epileptic thing before but I've always known that would cause you to have seizures. I don't think Joan of Arc had seizures in front of people to have them believe she had just went through some sort of rapture.
I do believe however she may have been delusional or even made some stuff up about it to get leverage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:48 am
Galad Damodred That's a possibility I hadn't considered. A girl hears the legend of the Maid of Reims or Maid of Orleans or Maid of Lorraine or whatever it is she was supposed to be, and decides to take matters into her own hands. Learn to ride, learn to use a sword, fake a few spiritual experiences, save your country. Of course, she would have had to convince Charles... VII, I think it was? Because she was supposed to have shown him a vision of Saint Michael. French politicians of every persuasion have invoked her memory through the ages. It's amazing; her name lives on centuries after her. Even I have drawn inspiration from her from time to time.
And the seizures, she could of faked those.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:31 am
Wow, everyone here speaks of her as an inspirational person. Who was she and what exactly did she do?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:27 pm
Shokai Wow, everyone here speaks of her as an inspirational person. Who was she and what exactly did she do? She was a French peasant in the 15th century. During the 100 Years War against Britain, she became a leader of French forces and rallied them to many victories. She became said leader because she claimed God spoke to her. I personally like to believe that, but it's hard not to get bashed by Atheists when you broach the subject by them. Eventually she was captured by the Brits and burned at the steak.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Galad Aglaron Vice Captain
|
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:26 pm
"Stake". Burned at the stake, not steak.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:03 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:17 pm
Galad Damodred "Stake". Burned at the stake, not steak. Don't criticize me for misspellings, you! I was hungry when I typed that, and you get the point. I'm one of the more literate people here...I'm in charge of the newsletter. blaugh
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:32 pm
Aah. Freudian slip. Only, with text.
I think I can safely say that I'm one of the most literate people anyone will ever meet. My literacy skills were university standard when I was twelve! blaugh
|
|
|
|
|
|
Galad Aglaron Vice Captain
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:10 pm
Some of the world's most inspirational people were completely delusional and/or insane.
Usually coinciding with charisma there's always been a tendency to be somewhat sociopathic and believe you're put there by God to change the world and lead huge quantities of people into battle against all odds or be considered a god yourself.
Sociopathic tendencies coincide quite easily with delusion and insanity as well as previously stated.
So Jean D' Arc could have been all three willing to risk life and limb to go to war.
Who knows? Maybe her boyfriend was conscripted by the local lord to fight the English and in turn he died. Joan could have taken this rather harshly, tipped over the edge with whatever modern day illness she had and then believed God was telling her to lead her people to a great victory. Whatever happened worked out for France. You gotta give her that much.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:46 am
This is a puzzling subject, and very interesting.
I am a Christian also, but I am one who believes Christ taught peace, turning the other cheek, and letting God get revenge. So, would the New Testament God guide a bloody war through a child? Puzzling.
On the one hand I think (I'm not sure) I might blow someone out of my house with a rifle if he were a fatal threat to my family or myself. Would that be right? I really don't know.
The Hundred Years' War seemed to be mostly about English threat of dominance over France. Basically, English rulers were coming into the "house" and threatening the freedom of the French, but did they threaten lives? Was this enough to war over? I don't know, because I don't know how threatening it was.
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't know enough about the actions of England against France, to have a firm opinion on whether God would lead a child into battle against them. Does God lead children into battle? This is a large question. I believe in Divine Intervention. I also know people hallucinate. I think it's incredible that Jean d'Arc had so much faith in her "calling" that she did what most modern people could not. She became a soldier who wielded a sword on a horse, wearing heavy armor. That is a great accomplishment in itself. And, she, as a girl child, inspired hardened soldiers to believe in her cause, which is beyond amazing.
But, I can't help but feel, if God had called someone for the job, it wouldn't have been a child. Jesus was and is very protective over children.
Sorry to blab on, but I also feel that children are much more open to the spiritual world than adults are. Maybe God had to use a child, because the faith and 'sight' of children is much stronger.
I think I could debate this all day. But, the problem is, I'm debating with myself. gonk wink
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:04 am
Keep in mind the Church hadn't fully accepted the "turn the other cheek" ideal at the time. The Crusades saw Crusaders massarcing every man woman and child within the walls of Jerusalem for about a week when they took it for the first time. Didn't matter if they were Muslim or Jew or Christian. They all looked the same to them.
So you can't say that if God really believed that "turning the other cheek" would be the right course of action here if an invader is coming in to fight. Keep in mind (at the time) these were two Catholic nations. I'm not too sure but I'm pretty sure ANY pope had the history of excommunicating your king if you prolonged a war with a separate Catholic nation. I'd probably try to bring in some evidence of this but the only recent Catholic on Catholic war I can think of is the Spanish Civil War but the church took a stance and supported Fransisco as apposed to supporting the communist (godless heathens so to speak.)
If you look at it yes it was a great feat for a woman to do. But keep in mind she was about 15 at the time. That's WELL into adulthood for the standards of the age. Therefore she's not a child so you can lay your mind at ease on that one (women were considered adults as soon as they had their first period so they could begin to bear children). I'll throw the "Children's Crusade" out there for a bit of thousands of kids marching off to make it to Jerusalem and not even making it too far because the majority of them died through starvation, so if that's God's calling for them so be it but I have a hard time seeing Jesus loving his children in that fashion, because you can't deny they had religious zeal and they all DIED.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
