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 Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:01 pm
I posted an article in my blog on myspace and I get a response from none other then Austin. Well here's a sum up of our conversation. It is very very long. Me VS Austin on myspace Austin: ******** BABY KILLER.
Me: Nope. At the stage where most abortions are performed the fetus/embryo cannot feel pain. By not allowing a woman to have an abortion you are allowing rape to be legal. The fetus is using her body against her will and because of Roe vs Wade and bodily domain it is illegal to use a woman's body without her will, and why should something that isn't alive be able to claim control over a woman's body and exercise a right that no other human being has? The fetus is not a baby it is not considered human yet.Austin: But it is alive, how else could it feed on a mother? BABY KILLER. A baby is a baby. a fetus is a baby. And a BABY KILLER IS A BABY KILLER. cause it was scrapped and sucked. if you were a developing baby you would look like that too. Ok. If feeding it is alive.Me: Nope. A baby is considered human. A fetus is not. A fetus is cannot feel pain nor can it think. You can get abortions up into I believe the 3rd trimester. It is a collection of cells and tissue, nothing more. It is like getting you appendix taking out or getting lyposuction or breast reduction surgery. I have read about women who have them. This girl was given three shots to numb the pain and it was scrapped then sucked out and she looked up and saw an orange mass.
Children die everyday from starvation. If you have a baby and put it into the racist adoption system you mine as well go stab another kid who's chances were just ruined. The adoption system is racist.
The fetus is breaking the law.
If you want to restrict abortion to the cases of rape, incest and the mothers health you are messed up. 1) People can fake rape and there is no difference between a raped fetus and a regular fetus 2) If women are not able to obtain safe abortions then many women will die because of coathanger surgeries or illegal abortions. 3)A women might kill herself rather then bring shame to her family
Some of theese scenarios do happen. We are in huge trouble already because of amendenment # 85.
Fetuses, embroyos and babies are not the same things.Austin: oh yeah and nice job copying those articles. Just wait Chuck Norris will find you. And you will see.
Me: I didn't copy them. I wrote them out myself as I am writing this. Also I wouldn't be able to feel it so who cares. If someone has sex with your dead body you won't be able to feel it so no one cares. If your dead what matters? You can't feel it. Same with the fetus it cannot feel anything, unless you have an abortion for health reasons, then the baby will be able to feel. Not all women are sorry that they had abortions: iamnotsorry.net If I were to get pregnant I probably would have an abortion because at this point in my life I do not want one. I cannot get my tubes tied until I am over 30 because Doctors will not do that procedure on women under 30 for fear of lawsuits.
Austin: just because it cant feel anything doesnt mean it isnt alive. Like on oprah
this 12 year old girl could not feel anything, so does this mean we should exterminate her?
Me: The 12 year old girl can think. If she can think for herself then she has every right to be alive. She is not infringing on anyone's personal rights or eating anyone else's nutrients is she? She has the consent to. If I were to get pregnant by rape, the man wouldn't have the consent to rape me, therefore the fetus dosen't have my consent either unless I want it there. Just because you give consent to sex dosen't mean that you give consent to be pregnant. The animals you kill and eat can think and feel pain and aren't messing with anyone's personal rights. Yet you kill them. That is hypocritical. If you can give me an arguement that dosen't involve faith or morals of why I should not remove something that cannot think and feel then I will take your arguement seriously. He eventually got mad and stopped posting. Another incident I was just sitting alone on the breezeway eating my lunch discussing grades with a teacher when Lindesay comes up and starts talking about politics I say "I am mostly democratic and liberal on everything except gun control, we have the right to bear arms so we will not be oppressed by the military." She goes on to say: "I am democratic except for the area of abortion, I am pro-life." I say "I am pro-choice." She proceeds to ask the teacher about her side and the teacher refuses to answer and walks off then the girl proceeds to get into an arguement with me that goes like this. Argument at school Lindesay: How can you kill a defenseless baby!?Me: Simple, it is breaking a law if it is not wanted there. The law of bodily domain that is protected by Roe VS Wade.Lindesay: Well it's completely innocent!Me: Nope, it is already breaking the law. Lindesay: Why can't you just put it up for adoption?Me: The adoption system is racist and people are mainly looking for healthy caucasian babies. Also putting it up for adoption does not change the unwanted pregnancy part.
Lindesay: Well it's really selfish to have abortions!Me: Well there are thousands of starving children that have no parents so having children is even worse.Lindesay: What about the father!?Me: Replace the word father with rapist.....Lindesay: Well what if the father loves the baby.Me: Wow, replacing the word father with rapist could work here. Say a girl was raped and the rapist contiued to oppress her by making her keep the baby. If the father loves a pile of cells more then the mother there is a problem.Lindesay: All fathers love their children!Me: Not true! My father is a very good example of someone who dosen't love his own offspring.Lindesay: Well what if you were aborted!?Me: I wouldn't of felt it and I wouldn't be here right now....it wouldn't of mattered.Lindesay: Well that's just you!Me: Talk to me when you get common sense. I got up and left. Does anyone know anyone as dumb as theese people???
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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:18 pm
gah, alot of people are really close minded.. and refuse to see it from any side from their own.. i dont mind people having views and opinions, thats their right... forcing it on me isnt!
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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:30 pm
SmallBlueThing gah, alot of people are really close minded.. and refuse to see it from any side from their own.. i dont mind people having views and opinions, thats their right... forcing it on me isnt! It's irritating because here I am just trying to enjoy my sandwich and some moron has to come up to me and try to force their views on me. I was had a mouth full of tuna and bread, I did not want to talk about my views on any political issue, I just wanted to keep shoving my face. I should of spit my tuna on her then she would of left me alone. Next time a pro-lifer comes up to me while I eat I am going to start yelling "ABORT! ABORT! ABORT!" and spitting up whatever I am eating on them and yelling "FETUS!!!" I think that will get my opinion across pretty clearly.
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:37 am
On another (non-Gaia) forum, somehow the conversation turned to abortion. Summary… Person A: It's the choice of the woman. Person B: Replace "abortion" with "child abuse" and see if you feel the same. Person C: Why not replace it with "eating red meat"? Person B: Because there is nothing wrong with eating red meat. Person C: Some people think there is, and some people don't. That's the point. Person B: Long rambly "scientific" crap about life beginning at conception, including pompous "this is so obvious, you are retarded for not being pro-life" attitude. I had to step in. Here is what I said, and it shut that guy up. He hasn't been back. Quote: I am not going to argue about what it means to be "alive" or "human" or "a child" or any of that. That doesn't really matter. There are other issues involving taking life that we, as a society, have trouble putting in black and white. Here are some questions, which I pose not because I want you to answer, but to make a point that as a society, we cannot agree on the answer. * Is the death penalty justifiable for certain heinous crimes? * Is war, and the deaths that inevitably go along with it, ever ok? * Is euthanasia ethical? * If a person is threatening the wellbeing of me or my family, can I defend myself even if the person may die in the process? * Should we force parents to seek medical treatment for their ailing children, even if their religion forbids treatment (e.g. blood transfusions and Jehovah's Witnesses)? * If I am the only person able to save someone's life via transplant or transfusion, should I be able to refuse the blood or organ even though it means the death of the other person? * And yes, even… Is it ok to eat red meat? Your answers are irrelevant, as are mine. I don't care what they are, so don't bother. The point is that they are issues involving death that are not entirely black and white to us as a society. Is it really so surprising that abortion is not so black and white to us too? I am currently pregnant (on purpose, fwiw) and I saw my 12-week-one-day fetus kicking and flailing on the ultrasound screen just yesterday. I would never say that isn't my "child" or that it isn't "alive." But that fetus has affected me and continues to affect me in ways that no other human being has done before, and in ways that he or she does not and could not affect anyone else on earth. Pregnancy is an issue of my bodily domain. In those terms, child abuse is actually closer to eating red meat, as those are issues of the other's (child's or animal's) bodily domain, rather than mine.
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:13 am
There were a few conversations about abortion in my science class this year during the sexual reproduction unit. I didn't get involved in it, though- I was kind of busy falling asleep. >_> But, I believe most of them are against abortion.
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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:35 pm
I as attacked in towns after trying to cover a grieving girl about her abortion. I was attacked with shouts of "ABORTION IS WRONG! "*kick* *punch* *kick* "BABY KILLER!"
wow, wanting to beat my avi to death. REALLY PRO LIFE JACKASSES!!!
I basically told them to F*ck off and left towns at that point.
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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:27 pm
SmallBlueThing gah, alot of people are really close minded.. and refuse to see it from any side from their own.. i dont mind people having views and opinions, thats their right... forcing it on me isnt! Aren't some of us guilty of that, as well, though? sweatdrop I mean...I know I'm guilty of it, but we're all kind of harsh on pro-lifers sometimes in here. D: I'm sure they aren't all mindless assholes (just like we're not all rude sons of bitches or sluts like some pro-lifers think). I don't know, just lately, I've felt really bad about some of the things I say about pro-lifers and some of the things I hear about them. In a sense, we're all kind of close-minded as well, aren't we? D: (I think I'm also kind of tired of the feuds between us an pro-lifers, as well. >w<;; )
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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:46 pm
Lol Lindseay is full of weak pro-life arguements... sometimes when I am arguing with people like her I feel as if I am arguing with a small delusional child.
The term "baby killer" makes me laugh. Because it makes it seem that people that support abortion go off and stab babies at Wal-Mart in their free time. It is just so unrealistic... my baby stabbing has nothing to do with being pro-choice. talk2hand
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Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:51 pm
Tell your classmates that being human is a privilege not a right. Because a fetus is still attached to the female's uterus, it is part of her and therefore her domain, same way you can't demand a kidney from someone else or pull out another person's heart just because you don't like them. Also ask them how an aborted fetus affects their day to day life? Does it increase their taxes? no. Does it decrease them? no. Does it prevent them from living at their home, eating food, and sleeping on a nice bed? no. If they bring up any emotional bullcrap bring up how horrible you find it makes you feel scared that they don't wash their hands when using the bathroom or how they masturbate at night makes you cry... or anything you can prove that shows their emotional weight has no effect on something that is not theirs to manage. My smart-a** remark for "All fathers love their children" would be "So that's way dad beats me every night!". Also tell them to come back when they have actually done something to help a child that is already alive today like donate massive amounts of money to starving children or adopt a minority child with a disability. Paying taxes through their paycheck doesn't count you don't know where that money is going and even those who get the special programs and assistance abuse it (not all but about 1 in 5 WIC users from my experience as a cashier tries to go around the system getting more than what is allowed).
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:44 pm
While I agree about five jillion percent with the rest of your argument... Streex Tell your classmates that being human is a privilege not a right... Should it be "person" instead of human? Being human is a matter of having human DNA, but being a person is much more than that. Otherwise a tumor would be human. Also, isn't being a person a right? A very specific one, yes, but I'd say that either personhood is a right, or that all persons automatically have certain rights.
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:20 pm
Some people I guess just refuse to look at the bigger picture on why women make the choice to have an abortion.
A woman being raped and getting pregnant as a result would be a good reason to have an abortion. But say that kid gets put up for adoption, and then he/she finds out they were the product of a rape. How do you think that kid is going to feel?
People say it's murder. Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy, the fetus is removed from the womb. Murder is the killing of a human being with malicious afterthought. A fetus is not considered a child to many people because it's not even formed enough to be a child. Nor can it feel, think, and let's face it: if you took a fetus out of its mother, it would die. To me, that fetus is a parasite that feeds off the mother. I consider it a child when it is a few week away from birth (like two-three weeks).
Abortion is selfish. Ok, what about all the starving, unwanted children who are abused because their parents blame their crappy lives on the kid? What about the kids who's parents just completley ignore them because they don't give a s**t?
I don't think people have the right to call a woman who chooses abortion selfish. You don't know her, and you don't know why she made that choice. You have no right to judge somebody unless you understand why they did what they did.
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:15 pm
@ Xxartistic_illusionXx about the rape statement. Well this is close to that feeling of not being wanted and product of something bad. There was a girl in my class who was adopted, she was the product of an affair. She was happy to be alive but felt sort of strange about being a product of an affair. Yeah, I've noticed the irony about abortion being selfish supporters are some of the worst offenders of it. Watch out if you're a cashier at the place that supports WIC or food stamps, you'll realize that about half of those that are on it try to abuse the system (especially WIC). Also watch out for the child support cards. Look at what they buy with that. I've caught them buying expensive make-up, purses, paintball guns for the boyfriend, and lingerie. Many forget that humans are conditioned to be selfish however both sides are unwilling to admit their faults and both sides go back and forth pointing out each others faults and then the opposition tries the rationalize their faults. PhaedraMcSpiffy While I agree about five jillion percent with the rest of your argument... Streex Tell your classmates that being human is a privilege not a right... Should it be "person" instead of human? Being human is a matter of having human DNA, but being a person is much more than that. Otherwise a tumor would be human. Also, isn't being a person a right? A very specific one, yes, but I'd say that either personhood is a right, or that all persons automatically have certain rights. I did mean a person and Human being. Debates have brought up before that there is a difference between humans and human beings. But I did mean a person. I was tired, so I had some vocab mixups
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Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:46 pm
For a class we had debates and I was psyched because I had everything prepared and cited and everything. Our debate was resolved; that abortion should be made illegal unless the life of the mother is in danger. I was the negative. I went and I gave the most awesome speech, everything cited and everything set up. Then she gave her final affirmative rebuttal and my arm started smelling like cheese so I bit down on it and stupid pro-lifers took off points simply because they agreed with her and thought my arm biting was some sort of gesture! Damnit! I can't help that my arms taste like cheese! I am not kidding.
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Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 7:57 pm
Responding to Aki, I've seen some hard-headed people at my school(s). I usually don't pay attention, though, since I don't believe grade school classes should even BE a place to discuss controversial issures- mainly just for the reason it's off-topic, but also because it's a huge interruption and distraction for most students. But, in my Ethics classes, abortion is a HA-YUGE topic, along with the citizen's justifiable rights.
And I remember the first time the topic of abortion rights was brought up was also the first time anybody ever had to be kicked out of that class.. lol. One of those people was techinically me, because I had to leave that darned class early because I was losing the debate against half the class (you can guess I was pro-choice, right, lol?) Anyhow, that half the class was conservative, being raised in this conservative town I live in n' all. The class debate was basically half the class raising their hands and agreeing to the illegalization of abortion, and about five other people in the 30-person class raising their hands to pro-choice rights; everybody else was undecided. But the worst part is that the class half that was pro-life started booing the pro-choice people! gonk which was really mean! lol but they actually had really good arguments that consisted of long, complicated, intellectually-invigorating words and a few basic points:
- a fetus can be considered human (it has fingernails!)
- in certain cases, when rape isn't involved, both parents aren't informed of the abortion
- the fetus itself is used as blackmail against the father, who wants the child, and the abortion itself can be used as blackmail or to threaten the father who wants the child
- while the mother may not be emotionally disturbed, traumatized, or set off balance by the abortion, family or the father or others can be
..which, with the way they put it (I listed the basic points, without detail), actually made a good point..except for the fingernail thing. But, my/our side brought up that all those reasons are irrelevent to the mother's own body's welfare and personal choice as a citizen, and was thus irrelevant as reasons to illegalize abortion.
Then they all got mad and everybody started yelling at eachother and I had to leave because I didn't wanna be yelled at by other people sad so I left and the next day we discussed illegal immigration instead.
But in the end, the conservatives AGAINST the "violent and disturbing act of abortion/ the murder of a living, human thing" were the first to get violent in the debate 3nodding
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:24 am
Try telling them that Humans are the only species on earth that give a flying rats arse about "omg babiez".
A kangaroo has three fetuses at one point, if she is chased or in danger it is common for the youngest to be reabsorbed (induced miscarriage - similar to choosing abortion) for the safety of her, her other children and the species.
If having a baby would be damaging to you, your existing children or the species (possibly due to the already enormous overpopulation) then there is nothing n the natural world to suggest that it is inherantly wrong.
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