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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:43 pm
I've heard it said that FF females are weak and one-dimensional. While I see their reasoning, I'd like to point out some of my observations on the former. I'm only going to refer to females from Final Fantasies 7 through 12, because they're the fandoms I'm most familiar with. I've only just begun playing 3 and 6, and haven't formed an opinion about their characters yet. These are only opinions, although I will try to present evidence from the games to justify them. I welcome any discussion, regardless of whether you agree or disagree.
Female characters have a lot of expectations pressed upon them by the fan community. I can't speak for males, but females seem to want to relate to and admire the female characters. FF is produced by Square-Enix, a Japanese company, and so their female characters are influenced by the traditions and beliefs of Japanese society, although they also want to appeal to a worldwide fanbase. When discussing female characters, several people seem to define them in two groups: dominant and submissive. According to them, the dominant types are women who are masculine in their ways, physical, and aggressive in personality or actions. The submissive types are meek, emotional, and maternal. Luckily, the majority of FF female characters do not seem to fit into either of these categories but are more realistic and complex, though they still do not achieve the complexities of the male characters. Forcing them into categories such as Fighter and Healer does not recognize their true potential as characters.
This brings me to my second point: physical strength as opposed to emotional strength. Now, I enjoy characters who can compete with the guys on a physical level, but female characters don't need to be butt-kicking Lara Crofts to be acceptable role models for girls. Several FF characters are dismissed as weak while still possessing emotional strength (strong conviction, determination, a positive outlook, etc). Also, some strong female characters are emotionally undecisive. To further illustrate this concept, I will show examples of female characters from each of the games.
FF7 Tifa -- physically strong. Emotionally insecure but brave. Connections to a male character. Sexualized.
Aerith -- physically weak. Has a strong resolve. Protected by a male character.
Yuffie -- physically strong. Emotionally immature.
FF8 Quistis -- physically strong. Intelligent and fairly emotionally healthy, yet insecure. Her emotions are affected by a male character. Stands up to a male character. Sexualized.
Rinoa -- physically neutral. Emotionally immature but has strength of will. Romantic relationship with a male character.
Edea -- physically weak. Has great mental powers. Needs a male knight.
Selphie -- physically neutral. Immature but confident and self-assured, except where romance is concerned.
FF9 Garnet -- physically weak. Emotionally mature and courageous. Romantic relationship with a male character.
Beatrix -- physically strong but cold in personality. Sexualized. Romantic relationship with a male character.
Freya -- Physically strong and emotionally mature. Sadness arises from feelings for a male character.
FF10/10-2 Yuna -- Physically weak (in first game). Emotionally mature and has strength of will, although it could be argued she is determined to finish her pilgrimage due to the brainwashing of Yevon. Romantic feelings for a male character and in a position of weakness due to a male character. In second game, gains physical abilities and becomes sexualized.
Lulu -- Physically weak. Emotionally mature and confident, but feels sorrow because of a male character.
Rikku -- Physically neutral and emotionally well-developed. Feelings for a male character.
Lucil -- Physically and emotionally strong. Becomes subordinate of male character in X-2.
Paine -- Physically strong but has emotional scars due to feelings for a male character.
FF12 Ashe -- Physically neutral. Has determination but motivation arises partly from past relationship with a male character. Receives protection from a male.
Penelo -- Physically neutral. Emotionally strong and confident. Maternal feelings for a male character.
Fran -- Physically and emotionally strong. Connections to a male character. Drace -- Physically and emotionally strong. Connections to a male character.
As you can see, the female characters who exist above have certain common similarities. Women who are physically strong are made sexually attractive, yet they still retain a sense of innocence and self-doubt, and have an emotional connection to a male character. Those women who are weak physically are stronger emotionally, though they also have connections with a male character. This shows that just having physical strength is often not enough. However, having relationships with a male does not make them weak. This brings me to my next issue.
Yes, the females of FF are closely associated with males. Being emotionally reliant on another person is not necessarily weak. As long as the relationship is healthy and equal, emotional connections with others shows the emotional depth of that character. The exceptions of this are Tifa, Paine, and Quistis, whose emotional attachments are possibly needy and until they learn to let go of those attachments they will not fully be confident.
In terms of personality, a character does not have to be fiery and aggressive or a stoic ice queen to have strength of character. Having qualities such as kindness, sensitivity, and optimism (typically considered feminine traits) does not make the character stereotypical or weak. Yuna and Penelo have these qualities, and yet they are some of the most emotionally mature and healthy characters in their respective games. Yuna has compassion for others, but also has a firm resolve and possesses great courage. Penelo cares for Vaan in a brotherly way, yet pointedly tells Basch in the Sandsea that she is not as weak as she looks. She's brave and calm and one of the most balanced characters. Lulu and Fran are emotionally strong, but their chilly personalities isolate others.
A woman should not have to possess masculine traits to be considered strong. Lucil is one of my favorite female characters because she is a leader but also has compassion for those under her command and treats them with kindness. This is a contrast to Beatrix, whose sense of duty is admirable but her arrogance leads her to blindly follow her queen, and Ashe, who recklessly goes on even while her actions may cause suffering for others.
In terms of appearance, characters seem to be overtly sexual when physically strong (Tifa, Quistis, Beatrix, Fran), more innocent when weak (Yuna, Rinoa, Penelo), and childish when emotionally immature (Yuffie, Rikku). The sexualized characters obviously are meant to attract the male fanbase, perhaps with the reasoning is that men will not accept a strong female character (a threat) unless she is physically attactive and therefore a sex object. The more innocent types seem to appeal to females, demonstrating the virtues of emotional fortitude and dedication. The exceptions to this are Aerith, who seems to possess confidence in her sensuality and Lulu. However, I don't believe it's bad that the characters are sexualized. Square-Enix does it with the male characters too, so they just want to create attractive characters in general. However, there are two characters I can think of, Leblanc (X-2) and Dona (X) who are negative sexualized types who have dependent relationships with male characters, but they're a minority.
In summary, Square-Enix's characters could be worse. There are some characters who are admirable in their physical and emotional strengths (Lucil, Drace). Just because a character is physically strong does not mean she is emotionally confident, yet her process of development makes her more interesting and by no means implies that she is a flat character. Neither is it a bad thing if she is physically attractive. Having feminine traits such as kindness does not make a female character weak, nor do her relationships with men. For instance, Rinoa is immature, but she has the ability to form healthy relationships with others and possesses confidence in herself despite her undeveloped understanding of the world.
In the end, your experiences and beliefs will affect how you see the characters, and so certain combinations of virtues and flaws will either appeal to you or repel you. In short, give the FF females a chance and appreciate them for the positive qualities that they do have.
I'd appreciate any discussion on what I posted above, and feel free to agree or disagree. However, please tell me your reasons why. I also welcome any new insights you may have on the above characters or females whom I have not mentioned.
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:38 am
.......... I really don't want to read all that... but after skimming through I know I'll have to to make any kind of sound reply....
gimme a few days... I'll eventually overcome the laziness and read through it all to really start up a good conversation. Be warned though that I naturally play the devil;s advocate despite what I may actually think. But.... to give a small start from just my first thoughts.....
Truthfully... I've never though 'the FF female' to be weak. There's always 1 (at the least) in each game that has a strong enough character to really be considered an asset to not only the gameplay but the story as well. However, I don't think saying that the majority of them are strong, as your list would suggest, would be anywhere near truthful. The fact is that most of them don't have strong characters or personalities and even less than them are those who are worth using in battle.
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:31 am
Square/Squenix is really good at making characters.
There are definitely a few I just don't like (Lulu, Paine, Ashe, Penelo... Lucil... I don't hate them, just mildly dislike... Except Ashe), but I definitely think they're all developed, worthwhile characters.
I know a lot of people cite Aerith as a sweet, fragile little flower girl, but remember the Don Corneo scene? I also hate it when people say Yuna was weak in the first game; she's one of the strongest characters I know. She was willing to die to defeat Sin, and only didn't because she wanted a better way to help Spira.
So who are some of my favorites? Rinoa, Garnet, Beatrix, Yuna, Rikku... So I'm pretty much all over the spectrum; I'm glad to find I don't seem to stereotype or anything.
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:48 pm
You liked Rikku? I couldn't stand her. She was so.... ditsy. I can't count how many times I wanted to have her stabbed.... then again... a lot of the time I did just keep her dead all the time, just dragging her body around while everyone else leveled up.
The women I did like however were all very strong in character. Celes(VI), Tifa(VII), Rinoa(VIII), Edea(VIII), Beatrix(IX), Freya(IX), Yuna(X, Not X-2), Ayame(FFXI).... sad that I can't really think of anyone from FFXII who would totally fit my requirements.... none of them really grabbed me.
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:47 pm
Maluc Fieri You liked Rikku? I couldn't stand her. She was so.... ditsy. I can't count how many times I wanted to have her stabbed.... then again... a lot of the time I did just keep her dead all the time, just dragging her body around while everyone else leveled up. The women I did like however were all very strong in character. Celes(VI), Tifa(VII), Rinoa(VIII), Edea(VIII), Beatrix(IX), Freya(IX), Yuna(X, Not X-2), Ayame(FFXI).... sad that I can't really think of anyone from FFXII who would totally fit my requirements.... none of them really grabbed me. Hm? I thought you'd like Fran. ^^ Emotionally, Rinoa is strong in some ways... But really weak in others, always looking for someone to protect her. I'd probably consider Rikku stronger than her in most ways. Rikku stood up for what she believed in and even though she certainly understood how grim the situation was, she managed to stay upbeat. I didn't really think of her at ditsy so much as just that, upbeat. It's understandably annoying to some people, but not ditsy.
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:54 pm
I did like fran... but none of the characters in XII really did anything for me... 'cept Balthier, he was awesome. Don't get me wrong... I still love Fran.... but it's mostly based around her outfit.
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:34 pm
i'd have to say i like the neutrally in the beginning unless convinced otherwise. some i like because they remind me of myself or others reminded them of me...like everyone in my family thinks yuffie is like me while i personally like rikku.
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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:56 am
Hate to tell ya... but Yuffie, Selphie, Rikku, and Penelo are all characters based off the same personality profile.... so in essence you're totally agreeing with them.
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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:21 pm
The female character in Square games tend to be a bit of an either/or thing with me. I either love 'em or hate 'em (mostly). Yuna, Ashe, Tifa, Rikku, Lulu, and Yuffie are my favorites (I love LeBlanc, now that I think of it: she's just so riddiculous), while I can't stand Aerith, Fran, Paine or Lucil (in that order).
I love Yuna for her quite dependace on her guardians, Ashe for all her faults, Tifa for being shy, Rikku and Yuffie for their bubbly attidude, and Lulu for, I dunno, Lulu-ness. Aerith I have major issues with (I think it's just cause I find her one big contradiction: she's a pink flower girl, but then she's a street-smart slum girl; she's innocent and laughs, but she's wise and knows when to be serious - come on, pick one), Fran, I think, is one of the worst characters ever (she's just so... pointless, and I hate her accent), Paine's too serious, and Lucil's too strong (actually, I don't particulary dislike her, but I figured I mention her, cause everyone else was - does anybody else think she dresses like a clown?).
I quite like their dependace on male characters. It doesn't make them weak (in most cases), it makes them human. Tifa's dependance on Cloud is not, I don't think, needy. While she does need him, she does not cling, beg, harass, or anything of the sort. If she didn't have this, she'd be too strong, don't you think?
I think I just love the character to be human, with flaws and issues.
(I'm just gonna mention some stuff that stuck out in your post now...)
As for Yuna's resolve possible being Yevon's 'brainwashing' I don't think that's it at all. It's always the people, I think, that make a summoner go on a pilgramige. Who's Ashe receving protection from? And when does she 'recklessly go on even when her actions may cause suffering for others'? I'm not saying that she doesn't, or wouldn't (in fact, I sure she would, as long as it wouldn't hurt her kingdom), I just wondering what you were thinking of, because nothing stands out like that for me in the game.
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:59 pm
Aerith's not a contradiction; she's multi-faceted, balanced. She is kind of Mary-Sueish, actually, which I normally hate, but she's just... Aerith! It's a terrible reason not to hate her, but she's Aerith.
I like characters with flaws too, but they have to be the right kinds of flaws. Bitchiness is not one of those endearing flaws (*stabs Ashe*). As for dependence on males, I agree, but it really depends. I think Tifa's and Yuna's make them much more likable than Eiko's and Leblanc's. I think it's hardly an issue with other girls, though, like Rikku and Lucil, not even worth mentioning.
Yeah, if Yuna had been brainwashed, she'd have gone along with it even after getting to Zanarkand rather than deciding it's wrong and finding another way.
(I never had a strong opinion on Lucil's outfit, but Elma's I love. I also love Fran's accent.)
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:54 pm
Aerith is amazingly Mary-Sueish, what'd you mean, kinda? xd I don't like her because she's too 'multi-faceted'. If personalities could be given stats, hers would all be sky high.
Ashe's bitchiness is, for me, only tolerable because she's a princess. It seems like kind of a weird thing to say, but... I guess it just makes it explainable in a way. The world really does revolve around her, y'know?
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:32 am
I don't think that females in FF are weak. Tifa, Fran, and Ashe are excellent examples of strong female characters that are also immensly usefull to the party. Mages such as Dagger and Yuna are also strong, despite what people think fighters aren't the most usefull types on the feild. Emotional strength is present in nearly all FF females (most of the time exceding males) and is seen in Aerith and Kairi (if we count KH XD)
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:13 pm
Kairi was actually sort of pathetic in the first Kingdom Hearts, if I remember... She was nice and all, certainly, but I can't recall her ever doing anything useful. She grew up nicely, though, in the second game (in multiple ways).
Yeah, I guess princesses are allowed to be a little nasty, and it's a bit of a stretch that most of them so far have been so sweet, but.. I still don't like her.
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:27 pm
I personally like the female characters. My favorite final fantasy was FF6 and the main character was Terra. She brought so much to the story with her internal struggle and physical of not belonging as an esper or a human. The female characters are so important to the games and I am reallly looking forward to FF13 because of another female main character. Its about time they mixed it up again. Male characters are great but to have a female as a leader brings a whole different perspective.
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 5:12 pm
If it's for Light, I can die without regrets--
 Who says that? They're pretty stupid, Celes from FF6 was a VERY strong character, Rikku/Yuna/Lulu could be very physically strong on the right sphere grids, Paine was CERTAINLY NOT one-dimensional. Whoever tells you this has one really warped POV.
Lulu's my favourite, so is Rikku. Lulu's a very deep character.
 --There are a lot of stupid people out there.
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