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 Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:40 am
This is a thread to discuss basic principles that are common to all arts.
I want to know, is body twist to evade strikes and generate power common to all arts? Its in TKD, and in the system of kungfu I've taken up, I'm pretty sure I remember it from my childhood karate and judo aswell.
What other principles are common to all arts? Things that if you endevour to understand them, will aid you no matter what you take?
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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:36 am
The fact that you should try and stop a fight before it has even started, whether verbally or by backing away. Running is not a cowards option and is a well known fight diffuser. Quote: I want to know, is body twist to evade strikes and generate power common to all arts? In Ninjutsu we move our whole body out of the attack range, depending on the speed of the strike and the power behind it. Being based on a principle of elements we may very well decide to 'fire' as it is, going forward with all possible speed to stop the fight, or maybe wind/water, defending against the attack before counter-attacking. As far as I'm aware we use the whole force of the body, not just a twist, to generate power. The effect of it all is to finish the fast ASAP without injury, if possible. EDIT: And I like the idea of this thread as well...good work Darkling, let's hope no one decides to wreck it.
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Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:37 am
Avoiding the fight if you can isn't so much a principle as common sense... the best school of martial arts is the linford christy school of martial arts... What I'm after is basic physical principles common to all arts... You say you hit with the entire body, I you sure you dont wind up with the torso? Rotate the entire torso into the technique? Lead with the hip on a round house etc? Here's what I mean: animations are top down Basic punch:  Notice the shoulder of the striking arm draws back then forward into the punch? Roundhouse kick:  Notice how the hip leads the leg?
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:32 am
Most of the strikes I've learnt are incorporated into the movement of the entire body...for example...  That is an Ichi Monji No Kamae. The left arm is used to block the attack (or vise-versa) then we step forward with the right leg, striking with the right arm/hand at the same time. Obviously it depends on the situation, if we can't go through all of that then we may merely smack someone with a good upper cut etc. Were taught to adapt so...yeh.
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:28 am
Taijutsuguy Most of the strikes I've learnt are incorporated into the movement of the entire body...for example... That is an Ichi Monji No Kamae. The left arm is used to block the attack (or vise-versa) then we step forward with the right leg, striking with the right arm/hand at the same time. Obviously it depends on the situation, if we can't go through all of that then we may merely smack someone with a good upper cut etc. Were taught to adapt so...yeh. Well yes in TKD we did that, step forward, strike with same arm and leg. Using the strength of the entire body, but at the same time the torso was twisted into it like I described above to generate the maximum amount of power possible. So in that ichi monji no kamae there's no torso twist at all?
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:58 pm
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:29 am
oohhh edit..
Well I'd like to see the techniques you describe in action before commenting..
Any who next one:
Breath Control
In every art I've studied so far, breath control has played a major part. From developing power, making the body more resistant to blows and managing your energy levels when fighing under the effects of adrenilin.
Thoughts?
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Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:59 am
I don't WANT to be the one answering all the time but since I'm active a lot...
Breath control really does form an integral part of most Martial Arts, especially with the 'fight or flight' effect of adren, you really need to keep calm and calculated under those conditions and with the help of breathing you usually can. As for generating power, that's also true, releasing your breath at a certain time to put more power into a strike does help.
Thoughts anyone else?
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Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:20 pm
I know breath control was important in the karate class I took, but wasn't emphasized as much in the kung fu class I was in for a bit.
I myself think it is important, for generating power (I've found there is a noticiable difference in the amount of power you hit with when breathing properly, and when you don't) , as well as helping take hits. We've all seen that movie with Jean Claude Van Damme where he's learning wushu from that old guy and he gets a weight dropped on him. He breathes (in or out?) when he gets hit by it to reduce the pain and damage of the blow. I've never had any intimate experience with this particular idea, but I can see how it might be effective.
As far as keeping calm during an adrenaline rush, I've never been in that situation, but methinks it would be beneficial to have proper breathing control to keep yourself calm in that situation.
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:26 am
A short sharp breath out was heavily emphasized in TKD and in my current kungfu class the teacher is always saying to breath from the "dantien" whilst performing techniques
Inhabia, what are your thoughts on torso twist to maximise power? In karate? In the system of kungfu you take?
Next:
Speed versus Mass
Now to my understanding, from TKD theory and physics. Speed is more important than mass for generating power.
Momentum is mass times velocity squared. Its momentum which kills you as safety engineers say, or more accurately impulse (a function of momentum).
If mass equals 1 (ignore units), speed equals 1 then momentum equals 1.
If you double the mass, then momentum equals 2, i.e. its doubled
If you double speed, the momentum is quadrupled, i.e. its quadrupled.
If you triple mass, then momentum equals 3, i.e. its tripled
If you triple speed, then momentum equals 9, i.e its multiplied by 9...
So it becomes apparent from this that a smaller faster person can hit harder than a larger slower person.. thoughts?
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:03 am
HHmmmm, I'd agree with that slightly...if you were small and fast or big it wouldn't matter because if that large guy finally got to you and hit you then you'd be out for the count.
There's a really tall guy in our dojo who is also quite well built yet everyone can beat him in randori. As for small and speedy, I'm quite thin with wiry muscles and due to this I have to rely on my speed to generate strength for hits more.
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Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:05 am
I've also heard many people say that joint locks (or at least basic joint locks) are very common across different martial arts. I have not had enough cross training to attest to that. Comments?
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:59 pm
Well, there's a lot of commonality between the arts, all of which are mentioned.... I think the question is to which degree some have over others.
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:29 am
Lunaries I've also heard many people say that joint locks (or at least basic joint locks) are very common across different martial arts. I have not had enough cross training to attest to that. Comments? Very common but not in all. Not in TKD or muay thai (I believe), amongst others. Its not really a principle that can be applied to all things.. imo Balance and leverageBalance - this one is obvious, you aren't going to be able to generate power or evade attacks if you dont keep your self in balance at all times Leverage - from my limited knowledge of grappling, leverage seems to be where its at Spatial awareness and Formlessness/AwarenessSpatial awareness - if you dont know whats going on around you, you wont be able to combat it effectively. Finding the gap in the guard also comes under this catagory I guess Formlessness/Awareness - not revealing what you are about to do, not showing any "tells", and conversely learning to read your opponents signs. The ability to outguess your opponent or not be out guessed is of particular importance in combat, particulary combat which ends quickly, like weapon work
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:42 am
DarklingGlory Formlessness/Awareness - not revealing what you are about to do, not showing any "tells", and conversely learning to read your opponents signs. The ability to outguess your opponent or not be out guessed is of particular importance in combat, particulary combat which ends quickly, like weapon work Now this I agree with, and believe that it can be applied to all Martial Arts. However, if one was to keep this mindset while practicing such things like formal Martial Arts (i.e. Shorin-Ryu, Aikido, Shaolin Gung Fu, etc.) wouldn't that said person be defying the very thing that defines each Martial Art as such?
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