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 Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:10 pm
So the other day, I was talking to my friend Christoph (not Christopher, he hates that. XD), and he was in a bad mood. So to take his mind off of it, I decided to, as I often do, to discuss abortion with him, because I mentioned that I was pro-life and he didn't really know what that meant.
When I explained to him the different points (I presented him both pro-life and pro-choice arguments) he processed it and spat out the usual pro-choice litany of "What about Rape? What about Financial difficulties?" Etc. Now, usually, it goes around in circles as far as discussions go, but the difference is that he believes the fetus is a human being throughout the pregnancy. And I asked him if he would use rape or financial difficulties to justify the killing of any other human being, and he said that he would not, and conceded that he had to be pro-life.
He's also Wiccan, so I was talking about VHEMT with him, and while he agreed with the sentiment that mother earth is precious, it does not override the rights of human beings.
The first thing I said after I turned him: "Miranda would be so proud." Cause it's kind of the same argument she used to turn me (the second time I became pro-life). Plus, she's my pro-life mentor.
So, do you discuss abortion with your friends sometimes? Have you changed any of their minds?
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:39 am
Tch. I tried one time but they double-teamed me and came at me from both sides, and I was not nearly as educated back then as I am now. Back then all I could say is "It's WRONG!", which went over like a lead balloon. Of course, one of these people is the same woman who looked me square in the eye and told me it was GOOD that my niece had an abortion, because at 15 she was not mature enough physically to have a baby (which is pure bullshit). I came close to ending our friendship over that one. Now I simply will not discuss it with them, for the sake of peace. I'm not going to change their minds and they will not change mine.
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:48 am
Sometimes I talk about abortion with my Pro-Life friends, but not all that often. Part of the reason is that I'm always a little nervous that I'll say something to piss them off so much that they won't want to be my friend anymore. This is just one of those topics that you have to be careful about talking to friends about (at least from the Pro-Choice perspective; I can't speak for Pro-Lifers) because there is so much emotion involved. I mean, if someone thinks you're helping to kill babies, that has the potential to make friendship awkward.
Texas Gypsy Of course, one of these people is the same woman who looked me square in the eye and told me it was GOOD that my niece had an abortion, because at 15 she was not mature enough physically to have a baby (which is pure bullshit).
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:14 am
While the majority of my friends are pro-choice like me (though none as passionate about it sweatdrop ), I don't attempt to "convert" my pro-life friends. We've discussed why we have the stances we do, and though we strongly disagree on the subject, we do agree that we value the friendship more than debating who's right and who's wrong.
I guess the closest I've ever come was with my boyfriend. When I asked him, he said, "well, I guess I'm pro-life". He seemed unsure, so I explained my reasons for my stance, and he was really understanding. He's doesn't refer to himself as pro-life or pro-choice now. He just says that if something should happen with us, that he'll be by my side supporting me no matter what choice I need to make.
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:21 am
ShadowIce Sometimes I talk about abortion with my Pro-Life friends, but not all that often. Part of the reason is that I'm always a little nervous that I'll say something to piss them off so much that they won't want to be my friend anymore. This is just one of those topics that you have to be careful about talking to friends about (at least from the Pro-Choice perspective; I can't speak for Pro-Lifers) because there is so much emotion involved. I mean, if someone thinks you're helping to kill babies, that has the potential to make friendship awkward.
Texas Gypsy Of course, one of these people is the same woman who looked me square in the eye and told me it was GOOD that my niece had an abortion, because at 15 she was not mature enough physically to have a baby (which is pure bullshit). My niece didn't WANT an abortion. Her mother and stepfather had told her outright that they would take the baby and raise it (which by the way they have done for several other babies in the family), so the baby would have lacked for nothing. However her sob father stepped in and blackmailed her by threatening her boyfriend with statutory rape, so Sarah had the abortion. Just about the first words out of her mouth afterwards were "I killed my baby, I'm going to hell." My family is Catholic, btw. I now hate legalized abortion with a passion. If abortion had been illegal Sarah would still have her first child.
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:37 am
Texas Gypsy ShadowIce Sometimes I talk about abortion with my Pro-Life friends, but not all that often. Part of the reason is that I'm always a little nervous that I'll say something to piss them off so much that they won't want to be my friend anymore. This is just one of those topics that you have to be careful about talking to friends about (at least from the Pro-Choice perspective; I can't speak for Pro-Lifers) because there is so much emotion involved. I mean, if someone thinks you're helping to kill babies, that has the potential to make friendship awkward.
Texas Gypsy Of course, one of these people is the same woman who looked me square in the eye and told me it was GOOD that my niece had an abortion, because at 15 she was not mature enough physically to have a baby (which is pure bullshit). My niece didn't WANT an abortion. Her mother and stepfather had told her outright that they would take the baby and raise it (which by the way they have done for several other babies in the family), so the baby would have lacked for nothing. However her sob father stepped in and blackmailed her by threatening her boyfriend with statutory rape, so Sarah had the abortion. Just about the first words out of her mouth afterwards were "I killed my baby, I'm going to hell." My family is Catholic, btw. I now hate legalized abortion with a passion. If abortion had been illegal Sarah would still have her first child. Wow that's terrible.
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:56 am
Texas Gypsy My niece didn't WANT an abortion. Her mother and stepfather had told her outright that they would take the baby and raise it (which by the way they have done for several other babies in the family), so the baby would have lacked for nothing. However her sob father stepped in and blackmailed her by threatening her boyfriend with statutory rape, so Sarah had the abortion. Just about the first words out of her mouth afterwards were "I killed my baby, I'm going to hell." My family is Catholic, btw. I now hate legalized abortion with a passion. If abortion had been illegal Sarah would still have her first child.
However, I'm not sure that it's fair to blame this situation on abortion being legal. You could just as well blame it on the fact that having sex with minors is illegal (after all, if it was legal to have sex with minors, your niece's father wouldn't have had anything to blackmail her with). Furthermore, had abortion been illegal, your niece might have been forced by her father to have an illegal abortion. After all, as far as I'm aware, forcing someone to have an abortion is illegal. Blackmail is illegal. Thus, the actions of this girl's father don't seem to be confined to what is legal.
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:00 am
I used to, but both of my Pro-Life friends graduated (and one has a baby now). So all of my remaining friends are Pro-Choice, and we basically agree about abortion.
So, while we do talk about it, there really isn't a question of anyone changing anyone's mind.
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:28 am
ShadowIce Texas Gypsy My niece didn't WANT an abortion. Her mother and stepfather had told her outright that they would take the baby and raise it (which by the way they have done for several other babies in the family), so the baby would have lacked for nothing. However her sob father stepped in and blackmailed her by threatening her boyfriend with statutory rape, so Sarah had the abortion. Just about the first words out of her mouth afterwards were "I killed my baby, I'm going to hell." My family is Catholic, btw. I now hate legalized abortion with a passion. If abortion had been illegal Sarah would still have her first child.
However, I'm not sure that it's fair to blame this situation on abortion being legal. You could just as well blame it on the fact that having sex with minors is illegal (after all, if it was legal to have sex with minors, your niece's father wouldn't have had anything to blackmail her with). Furthermore, had abortion been illegal, your niece might have been forced by her father to have an illegal abortion. After all, as far as I'm aware, forcing someone to have an abortion is illegal. Blackmail is illegal. Thus, the actions of this girl's father don't seem to be confined to what is legal.But therein lies the problem, don't you see? If abortion were ILLEGAL, quite frankly Doug wouldn't have insisted on it. But because it IS legal Doug had that resource to draw on. How many other women/girls out there have had to face Sarah's situation, because men have a way to force them to end their pregnancy? How many have had an abortion because they feel trapped and then end up hating themselves? At least when abortion was illegal the only ones having it were those who really wanted it.
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:36 am
Texas Gypsy But therein lies the problem, don't you see? If abortion were ILLEGAL, quite frankly Doug wouldn't have insisted on it. But because it IS legal Doug had that resource to draw on. How many other women/girls out there have had to face Sarah's situation, because men have a way to force them to end their pregnancy? How many have had an abortion because they feel trapped and then end up hating themselves? At least when abortion was illegal the only ones having it were those who really wanted it. How do you know that? Because abortion for minors needs parental permission in my state, my (now ex-)step-father gave me an illegal and dangerous "home-made" abortion with a coat hanger. Is that a reason that abortion should be legal for minors to be able to get abortion without parental permission? (No.) There are horrible people out there, I'm sure we both agree. Forcing anyone to get an abortion is a horrible, horrible thing. But it doesn't just happen because abortion is legal (or illegal). It happens because some people are very horrible. And I'm very, very sorry that it happened to your niece. No one should ever have to go through such a thing. Her father should (also) be beaten with a stick, that is a horrible, horrible thing to do, especially to one's child!
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:39 am
Texas Gypsy But therein lies the problem, don't you see? If abortion were ILLEGAL, quite frankly Doug wouldn't have insisted on it. But because it IS legal Doug had that resource to draw on. Texas Gypsy How many other women/girls out there have had to face Sarah's situation, because men have a way to force them to end their pregnancy? How many have had an abortion because they feel trapped and then end up hating themselves? At least when abortion was illegal the only ones having it were those who really wanted it.
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:46 pm
ShadowIce Texas Gypsy But therein lies the problem, don't you see? If abortion were ILLEGAL, quite frankly Doug wouldn't have insisted on it. But because it IS legal Doug had that resource to draw on. Texas Gypsy How many other women/girls out there have had to face Sarah's situation, because men have a way to force them to end their pregnancy? How many have had an abortion because they feel trapped and then end up hating themselves? At least when abortion was illegal the only ones having it were those who really wanted it. Eh, no. If abortion were still illegal, Doug would NOT have risked breaking the law, not because he's a decent person, but because he would want to avoid trouble. I seriously doubt he thought of his threat as illegal, and frankly I'm not sure it was either. The key words here are LEGAL and ILLEGAL. Doug does not knowingly break the law. And I'm going to have to disagree with the rest of your points too. Do you REALLY think that a woman/girl who has been forced into an abortion clinic is at the last minute going to tell the abortionist? Whatever is being held over her is not going to magically go away.
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:46 pm
McPhee So, do you discuss abortion with your friends sometimes? Have you changed any of their minds?
So I have a little bit of a record!
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:50 pm
It's hard to use what if because there is no way to tell what will or what would have happen. It's all speculation.
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:11 pm
Texas Gypsy Eh, no. If abortion were still illegal, Doug would NOT have risked breaking the law, not because he's a decent person, but because he would want to avoid trouble. I seriously doubt he thought of his threat as illegal, and frankly I'm not sure it was either. The key words here are LEGAL and ILLEGAL. Doug does not knowingly break the law. Texas Gypsy And I'm going to have to disagree with the rest of your points too. Do you REALLY think that a woman/girl who has been forced into an abortion clinic is at the last minute going to tell the abortionist? Whatever is being held over her is not going to magically go away.
But as ryokomayuka said, this is all speculation.
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