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 Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:33 pm
Okay, almost EVERY ONE in the last thread missed the point. Why? I can only assume it was because of the person's post I quoted. They read the post, read what i said, and assumed I was talking about adoption. I WASN'T.
So, here, I'm going to clarify and ask for opinions since it seems I have to post and read what I read several times over before I have a clear question
Narrow Mindedness exists, yes. But the question is, why do some people (and there are examples here in this sub forum) who disagree with another, call that other person narrow minded, or closed minded. Be they conservative, liberal, Christian, Muslim, libertarian, Pastafarian, or what have you?
I haven't called some one narrow minded since the 6th grade...I can't see any one as narrow minded, just opinionated. Simply because some one is old fashioned and conservative about something, or just plain disagrees with me, doesn't make them narrow minded. It merely means they have they're own view point, whether they are right or wrong is only an opinion as well. For all matters considered, I myself could very well be wrong.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:45 pm
Thank you by the way.
I see what you mean. Narrow-minded is a vague term that seems to get used to mean a lot of things. I suppose the usage of it that I would refer to would be something like;
"Resentment of a certain idea or way of life purely because it differs from ones own and without moral cause"
I guess it's natural to want to differentiate oneself from something you see as wrong particularly when you might be frustrated as to why they believe it when as is often the case to the person in question it seems obviously wrong.
It just goes to show that even though we might know that our views aren't universal it is difficult to look at the world objectively or without our own moral spectacles.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:45 pm
Tiger of the Fire Okay, almost EVERY ONE in the last thread missed the point. Why? I can only assume it was because of the person's post I quoted. They read the post, read what i said, and assumed I was talking about adoption. I WASN'T. So, here, I'm going to clarify and ask for opinions since it seems I have to post and read what I read several times over before I have a clear question Narrow Mindedness exists, yes. But the question is, why do some people (and there are examples here in this sub forum) who disagree with another, call that other person narrow minded, or closed minded. Be they conservative, liberal, Christian, Muslim, libertarian, Pastafarian, or what have you? I haven't called some one narrow minded since the 6th grade...I can't see any one as narrow minded, just opinionated. Simply because some one is old fashioned and conservative about something, or just plain disagrees with me, doesn't make them narrow minded. It merely means they have they're own view point, whether they are right or wrong is only an opinion as well. For all matters considered, I myself could very well be wrong. Tiger of the Fire Thats more like it. But now, I'm going to have to ask what you mean by closed minded? Do you mean he sticks to his guns? In that he may agree with some of your points, but stays to what he sees as right? Or does he agree with you on some points, but blows off every one he dosen't agree with?
Basically, is the person willing to consider that they might be wrong? Are they willing to examine their position to make sure that they are correct? Those are the questions I think must be answered to see if a person is close minded or not.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:45 pm
Much better first post! *grin*
I do feel that some people are closed minded. Mostly people who are completely against Gay Marriage for religious reasons and are unwilling to listen to other people about the issue.
And that person who told me that I was going to Hell for being Pagan unless I accepted Jesus...blah blah blah...while I was working at a mall bookstore. They were narrow minded. Though I did get to tell them that Mall Policy was that trying to convert people was solicitation - and if they didn't stop I would be forced to have Security escort them from the Mall.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:47 pm
ShadowIce Tiger of the Fire Okay, almost EVERY ONE in the last thread missed the point. Why? I can only assume it was because of the person's post I quoted. They read the post, read what i said, and assumed I was talking about adoption. I WASN'T. So, here, I'm going to clarify and ask for opinions since it seems I have to post and read what I read several times over before I have a clear question Narrow Mindedness exists, yes. But the question is, why do some people (and there are examples here in this sub forum) who disagree with another, call that other person narrow minded, or closed minded. Be they conservative, liberal, Christian, Muslim, libertarian, Pastafarian, or what have you? I haven't called some one narrow minded since the 6th grade...I can't see any one as narrow minded, just opinionated. Simply because some one is old fashioned and conservative about something, or just plain disagrees with me, doesn't make them narrow minded. It merely means they have they're own view point, whether they are right or wrong is only an opinion as well. For all matters considered, I myself could very well be wrong. Tiger of the Fire Thats more like it. But now, I'm going to have to ask what you mean by closed minded? Do you mean he sticks to his guns? In that he may agree with some of your points, but stays to what he sees as right? Or does he agree with you on some points, but blows off every one he dosen't agree with?
Basically, is the person willing to consider that they might be wrong? Are they willing to examine their position to make sure that they are correct? Those are the questions I think must be answered to see if a person is close minded or not.That is a very good way of putting it. A refusal to consider another's view even though one is not required to accept it as personal truth?
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:29 pm
ShadowIce Tiger of the Fire Okay, almost EVERY ONE in the last thread missed the point. Why? I can only assume it was because of the person's post I quoted. They read the post, read what i said, and assumed I was talking about adoption. I WASN'T. So, here, I'm going to clarify and ask for opinions since it seems I have to post and read what I read several times over before I have a clear question Narrow Mindedness exists, yes. But the question is, why do some people (and there are examples here in this sub forum) who disagree with another, call that other person narrow minded, or closed minded. Be they conservative, liberal, Christian, Muslim, libertarian, Pastafarian, or what have you? I haven't called some one narrow minded since the 6th grade...I can't see any one as narrow minded, just opinionated. Simply because some one is old fashioned and conservative about something, or just plain disagrees with me, doesn't make them narrow minded. It merely means they have they're own view point, whether they are right or wrong is only an opinion as well. For all matters considered, I myself could very well be wrong. Tiger of the Fire Thats more like it. But now, I'm going to have to ask what you mean by closed minded? Do you mean he sticks to his guns? In that he may agree with some of your points, but stays to what he sees as right? Or does he agree with you on some points, but blows off every one he dosen't agree with?
Basically, is the person willing to consider that they might be wrong? Are they willing to examine their position to make sure that they are correct? Those are the questions I think must be answered to see if a person is close minded or not.What does it means to "examine"? Does it mean to ever falter in your own views? Do I debate because I do not know the answers, or do I debate BECAUSE I know the answers? I think we hit a problem when we say that word "Narrow/Close minded". I recognize that many people have a form of truth sitting on the table. Literally. Christians, Muslims, Jews... for them, answers can be found in books. I cannot criticize them for this. Why? Because they too have their own truth, a truth that is INDISPUTABLE (ignoring debate regarding textual interpretation, obviously). So it isn't being Close minded... it's just having the answers. Finding the answers for them is not about reasoning, it's about reading. That isn't a lifestyle I can exactly debate with, for I respect it too much.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:44 pm
kp is dcvi What does it means to "examine"? Does it mean to ever falter in your own views? Do I debate because I do not know the answers, or do I debate BECAUSE I know the answers? kp is dcvi I think we hit a problem when we say that word "Narrow/Close minded". I recognize that many people have a form of truth sitting on the table. Literally. Christians, Muslims, Jews... for them, answers can be found in books. I cannot criticize them for this. Why? Because they too have their own truth, a truth that is INDISPUTABLE (ignoring debate regarding textual interpretation, obviously). So it isn't being Close minded... it's just having the answers. Finding the answers for them is not about reasoning, it's about reading. That isn't a lifestyle I can exactly debate with, for I respect it too much.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:34 pm
ShadowIce Just because you examine your beliefs doesn't mean you can't come to a conclusion. I can believe in a woman's right to choose while still being willing to examine my beliefs. I know that 2+2=4. I have the answer to that question. But if someone came up to me and explained that they thought 2+2=5, I would listen. I am under no obligation to agree, but I would consider what they said if for no other reason than I would want to know why they believed 2+2=5. Do you believe it is possible for people to come into a debate though and be thinking to themselves: "I so know what i'm talking about. I am here to correct wrong opinions and false thinking." ? Quote: Like it or not, people can think they have the answers when they don't. For example, let's say that I asserted that the world was flat because my holy book tells me so. Are you really willing to concede that I honestly have a form of truth? I personally am not willing to say that truth is completely relative. If it is, then how are you going to deal with me saying that abortion really is okay because my personal truth says so? If my holy book says, "Women should be able to have abortions whenever they want for whatever reason," would you really just sit back and accept that such a statement as indisputable truth? You have a form of truth that is being handed to you and in your opinion, because it is from a greater authority, that truth, is CORRECT, to that person. That does not mean that the truth IS correct, obviously. Obviously, I can debate with you about disputes we have. The problem is: if you did come to me with your pro-choice views and said you got them from your Holy Text, I would not call you close-minded. I think that term can only apply to a very few people. Basically, what i'm getting, if you follow closely to religious teaching, that does not make you close minded. It really just means God got to you before reason did. Do you understand what i'm saying?
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:35 pm
By the way I just realized that when I talk to people, I change between second and third person without thinking.
So if you get confused, just tell me. 3nodding sweatdrop
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:45 pm
ShadowIce kp is dcvi What does it means to "examine"? Does it mean to ever falter in your own views? Do I debate because I do not know the answers, or do I debate BECAUSE I know the answers? kp is dcvi I think we hit a problem when we say that word "Narrow/Close minded". I recognize that many people have a form of truth sitting on the table. Literally. Christians, Muslims, Jews... for them, answers can be found in books. I cannot criticize them for this. Why? Because they too have their own truth, a truth that is INDISPUTABLE (ignoring debate regarding textual interpretation, obviously). So it isn't being Close minded... it's just having the answers. Finding the answers for them is not about reasoning, it's about reading. That isn't a lifestyle I can exactly debate with, for I respect it too much. An indisputable personal truth, yes. Personal truth how ever do not equal to literal truths. The earth is round. Thats a literal truth. Its something that has been observed to be an irrefutable. A personal truth however would be what you described, it is a truth you have made for your self based upon your own observations, but is not necessarily a fact of life. Literal truths can be argued as to whether or not they are right or wrong. Personal truths how ever are inarguable as they are opinions, a persons mind set, and telling some one of an opposite mind set that they are wrong is also nothing more then an opinion.
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:39 am
kp is dcvi Do you believe it is possible for people to come into a debate though and be thinking to themselves: "I so know what i'm talking about. I am here to correct wrong opinions and false thinking." ? kp is dcvi You have a form of truth that is being handed to you and in your opinion, because it is from a greater authority, that truth, is CORRECT, to that person. That does not mean that the truth IS correct, obviously. Obviously, I can debate with you about disputes we have. The problem is: if you did come to me with your pro-choice views and said you got them from your Holy Text, I would not call you close-minded. I think that term can only apply to a very few people. Basically, what i'm getting, if you follow closely to religious teaching, that does not make you close minded. It really just means God got to you before reason did. Do you understand what i'm saying?
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:01 am
ShadowIce kp is dcvi Do you believe it is possible for people to come into a debate though and be thinking to themselves: "I so know what i'm talking about. I am here to correct wrong opinions and false thinking." ? kp is dcvi You have a form of truth that is being handed to you and in your opinion, because it is from a greater authority, that truth, is CORRECT, to that person. That does not mean that the truth IS correct, obviously. Obviously, I can debate with you about disputes we have. The problem is: if you did come to me with your pro-choice views and said you got them from your Holy Text, I would not call you close-minded. I think that term can only apply to a very few people. Basically, what i'm getting, if you follow closely to religious teaching, that does not make you close minded. It really just means God got to you before reason did. Do you understand what i'm saying? Someone close minded would not be appealing to Higher Powers, they would be appealing to tradition (which could also entail appealing to authority, but not just appealing to authority itself) and they could also be a Relativist who's just... contradictory. (Basically... a non-believer who lukewarm theist who does not believe in objective morality YET refuses to seen reason over important issues). If an atheist was anti-gay for no reason other then his daddy told him so and that he sees gay affection as "disgusting"... that's being close-minded. You also are close-minded if you Appeal to Higher Powers, YET are you yourself ignorant or religious text and the arguments your sect of faith provides. Then you're just an idiot.
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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:11 pm
grrrr....people, the term is CLOSED-minded! Close is a verb, or an adjective meaning near. Closed is an adjective, like open! (Which is also a verb, probably making this terribly confusing for non-native English speakers...) gonk
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Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:52 pm
La Veuve Zin grrrr....people, the term is CLOSED-minded! Close is a verb, or an adjective meaning near. Closed is an adjective, like open! (Which is also a verb, probably making this terribly confusing for non-native English speakers...) gonk HEIL! scream
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Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:55 pm
Tiger of the Fire La Veuve Zin grrrr....people, the term is CLOSED-minded! Close is a verb, or an adjective meaning near. Closed is an adjective, like open! (Which is also a verb, probably making this terribly confusing for non-native English speakers...) gonk HEIL! scream Pro-life Guild Constitution, Section IV, Article III, Line 6: There will be no Heiling to anyone other then kp is dcvi. Failure to comply with this rule will result in an instant emotional flogging and the publication of nude photos you didn't know you had.
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