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 Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:08 pm
psht~ we already knew that talk2hand
Real Title: GLOBAL GENDER GAP
So I was reading a TIME's magazine in my Library Literary research skills today. (I get to learn how to run a library, do research projects etc. gonk )
When I came across this little...well not goodie.
I copied the piece and made it all nice on it's own sheet of paper, but I'm too lazy to scan in it right now, but here's what it said:Quote: The Swiss-based World Economic Forum releases an annual list that ranks countries on the basis of gender equality. The report measures discrepancies between men and women in four categories: 1) educational attainment, 2) economic participation and opportunity, 3) political empowerment and 4) health and survival. The U.S. slipped from the 22nd place in 2006 to the 31st place this year, partly because of it's low political-participation rate for women. Countries of note are in red. 1. Sweden 2. Norway 3. Finland 5. New Zealand 6. Philippines 7. Germany 8. Denmark 9. Ireland 10. Spain 11. U.K.12. Netherlands 13. Latvia 14. Lithuania 15. Sri Lanka 16. Croatia 17. Australia 18. Canada 19. Belgium 20. South Africa 21. Moldova 22. Cuba 23. Belarus 24. Colombia 25. Bulgaria 25. Lesotho 27. Austria 28. Costa Rica 29. Namibia 31. U.S. 32. Kazakhstan33. Argentina 34. Tanzania 35. Macedonia 36. Israel 37. Portugal 38. Panama 39. Jamaica 40. Switzerland 41. Uzbekistan 42. Vietnam 43. Mozambique 44. Ecuador 45. Russia 46. Trinidad and Tobago 47. Romania 48. El Salvador 49. Slovenia 50. Uganda 51. France52. Thailand 53. Botswana 54. Slovak Republic 55. Venezuela 56. Suriname 57. Ukraine 58. Luxembourg 59. Azerbaijan 60. Poland 61. Hungary 62. Mongolia 63. Ghana 64. Czech Republic 65. Dominican Republic 66. Albania 67. Georgia 68. Honduras 69. Paraguay 70. Kyrgyzstan 71. Armenia 72. Greece 73. China 74. Brazil 75. Peru 76. Malta 77. Singapore 78. Uruguay 79. Tajikistan 80. Bolivia 81. Indonesia 82. Cyprus 83. Kenya 84. Italy 85. Mauritius 86. Chile 87. Malawi 88. Zimbabwe 89. Madagascar 90. Nicaragua 91. Japan 92. Malaysia 93. Mexico 94. Belize 95. Gambia 96. Kuwait 97. South Korea 98. Cambodia 99. Maldive 100. Bangladesh 101. Zambia 102. Tunisia 103. Syria 104. Jordan 105. United Arab Emirates 106. Guatemala 107. Nigeria 108. Algeria 109. Qatar 110. Angola 111. Mauritania 112. Mali 113. Ethiopia 114. India 115. Bahrain 116. Cameroon 117. Burkina Faso 118. Iran119. Oman 120. Egypt 121. Turkey 122. Morocco 123. Benin 124. Saudi Arabia 125. Nepal 126. Pakistan127. Chad 128. Yemen
Some of the country ratings on the list are no brainers, some are kind of shocking, I mean France at 51? seriously mon ami, what the hell have you been doing? or Japan at 91 - CHINA is better then you!
I also won't point out that the more religious/stuck in their ways, the country is, the lower they seem to be on the list, just like I won't point out that the last 100 countries or so, other than third world countries that just don't have the ability to be up higher - are Muslim states. No I didn't point those out at all, you just made the connection in your head.
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:10 pm
Wow. I knew the USA was bad, but damn neutral
That's depressing.
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:25 pm
WOO! YEAH! Go us, we totally STOMPED Kazakhstan!
...
...
... emo
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:30 pm
MGadda WOO! YEAH! Go us, we totally STOMPED Kazakhstan! ... ... ... emo http://www.kino-govno.com/posters/borat_6.jpg
VERY NICE!
I LIKE!
HIGH FIVE! Mod edit: Sorry, but the picture was stretching the page.
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:25 pm
Trite~Elegy I also won't point out that the more religious/stuck in their ways, the country is, the lower they seem to be on the list, just like I won't point out that the last 100 countries or so, other than third world countries that just don't have the ability to be up higher - are Muslim states. If they do not respect women's rights and equality, they are not truly Muslim countries. The Qu'ran has more pro-woman verses and sections than the Bible. You may as well be pointing out that countries like Italy (dominated by Catholicism), Switzerland (80% Christian) and the United States itself (77% Christian) are just as bad because they are mostly made up of a religion that is often used to marginalize women. The reason that countries that are almost entirely Muslim are like that is not that Islam itself is any more sexist than Christianity or Judaism; it is because the leaders are misogynists who use Islam as an excuse to oppress women. It is not Islam itself; it is the misinterpretation of Islam. Those countries are theocracies, and a theocracy almost never accurately represents the religion it is based on. The fact that the countries are Muslim has as much to do with it as the fact that Italy (#84), France (#51) and the US (#31) are mostly Christian countries. At the very least, you could put "Muslim" in quotes when referring to such countries. Oh, and Nepal, the fourth last country on that list? Is a secular state, with Hinduism and Buddhism as the main religions. They're not all woman-hating "Muslims", they're woman-hating seculars too.
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:48 pm
[Ernie] Trite~Elegy I also won't point out that the more religious/stuck in their ways, the country is, the lower they seem to be on the list, just like I won't point out that the last 100 countries or so, other than third world countries that just don't have the ability to be up higher - are Muslim states. If they do not respect women's rights and equality, they are not truly Muslim countries. The Qu'ran has more pro-woman verses and sections than the Bible. You may as well be pointing out that countries like Italy (dominated by Catholicism), Switzerland (80% Christian) and the United States itself (77% Christian) are just as bad because they are mostly made up of a religion that is often used to marginalize women. The reason that countries that are almost entirely Muslim are like that is not that Islam itself is any more sexist than Christianity or Judaism; it is because the leaders are misogynists who use Islam as an excuse to oppress women. It is not Islam itself; it is the misinterpretation of Islam. Those countries are theocracies, and a theocracy almost never accurately represents the religion it is based on. The fact that the countries are Muslim has as much to do with it as the fact that Italy (#84), France (#51) and the US (#31) are mostly Christian countries. At the very least, you could put "Muslim" in quotes when referring to such countries. Oh, and Nepal, the fourth last country on that list? Is a secular state, with Hinduism and Buddhism as the main religions. They're not all woman-hating "Muslims", they're woman-hating seculars too.
I'm sorry I didn't point out every single religious ridden country.
My view on religion is very simple.
The religion itself may have good intentions, but people themselves are nasty and vile, therefore, people practicing religion more often than not use the religion for...well nasty and vile doings.
I know islam itself is not the problem - it's the people.
But it's hard for a person like me to believe there are good religious fairing people in the world when you're studying how 11 girls burned to death due to the fact that Saudi arabia's religious police would not let them escape their burning school because they did not have their full female head to toe getup that their wahhabism version of islam requires for them to be seen by anyone other then close blood relatives.
Nepal may be 'secular' in govt. but like the Iran, it's the ayatollah (head religious person) running things, not president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:57 pm
Well..I've been wanting to move to Finland for a long time now..hmmm..
Ooh! I'll get a vacation home there that I can flee to when the U.S. has it's brainfart moments.
Anyone wanna pitch in? If we all pitched in we could prolly buy a private island somewhere. Velcome to fantasy islaaanndd!
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:45 pm
Trite~Elegy I'm sorry I didn't point out every single religious ridden country. My view on religion is very simple. The religion itself may have good intentions, but people themselves are nasty and vile, therefore, people practicing religion more often than not use the religion for...well nasty and vile doings. I know islam itself is not the problem - it's the people. Good job, you just generalized a whole group of people. If you really do believe the people are the problem, why didn't you just say "countries ruled by religious nutjobs"? You completely missed my point. My problem was that you singled Islam out. There's no reason to only point out the "Muslim" countries and use their ******** up governments and leaders as a reason to write everyone else off, when you could just as easily say "those fundamentalist assholes". Singling out the "Muslim" countries (and no other group of countries) implies that you think that Islam inherently oppresses women and that misogyny is a required part of their beliefs. There is no doubt that there is sexism in Islam, just as there is sexism is most organized religion. That's no reason to only point out the "Muslim" countries, as if Islam is solely at fault for the terrible treatment of women. Quote: But it's hard for a person like me to believe there are good religious fairing people in the world when you're studying how 11 girls burned to death due to the fact that Saudi arabia's religious police would not let them escape their burning school because they did not have their full female head to toe getup that their wahhabism version of islam requires for them to be seen by anyone other then close blood relatives. Nepal may be 'secular' in govt. but like the Iran, it's the ayatollah (head religious person) running things, not president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. That's no excuse for slapping a label and description on a group of people based on your perceptions of their religion. You also don't need to point out the atrocities of the Saudi Arabian government like I don't know s**t about what they do, either. I'm not ignorant, thank you.
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:50 pm
It frightens me a bit that countries in Africa vested the USA in this area. Not to discount South Africa for anything at all, but I'm just saying, in comparison to the United States?
That's a scary thought.
The country that can't even feed its people can treat their females with more respect and equality than a World Power.
How...odd.
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:00 pm
[Ernie] Trite~Elegy I'm sorry I didn't point out every single religious ridden country. My view on religion is very simple. The religion itself may have good intentions, but people themselves are nasty and vile, therefore, people practicing religion more often than not use the religion for...well nasty and vile doings. I know islam itself is not the problem - it's the people. Good job, you just generalized a whole group of people. If you really do believe the people are the problem, why didn't you just say "countries ruled by religious nutjobs"? You completely missed my point. My problem was that you singled Islam out. There's no reason to only point out the "Muslim" countries and use their ******** up governments and leaders as a reason to write everyone else off, when you could just as easily say "those fundamentalist assholes". Singling out the "Muslim" countries (and no other group of countries) implies that you think that Islam inherently oppresses women and that misogyny is a required part of their beliefs. There is no doubt that there is sexism in Islam, just as there is sexism is most organized religion. That's no reason to only point out the "Muslim" countries, as if Islam is solely at fault for the terrible treatment of women. Quote: But it's hard for a person like me to believe there are good religious fairing people in the world when you're studying how 11 girls burned to death due to the fact that Saudi arabia's religious police would not let them escape their burning school because they did not have their full female head to toe getup that their wahhabism version of islam requires for them to be seen by anyone other then close blood relatives. Nepal may be 'secular' in govt. but like the Iran, it's the ayatollah (head religious person) running things, not president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. That's no excuse for slapping a label and description on a group of people based on your perceptions of their religion. You also don't need to point out the atrocities of the Saudi Arabian government like I don't know s**t about what they do, either. I'm not ignorant, thank you. Alright, alright. You said you're two cents, she said hers... Let's let it end on that note and focus on something we can all agree on. The U.S. should be a lot higher on that list than it is. I'm thinking that maybe I should buy a summer home in Sweden. I hear they got really good cocoa!
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:12 pm
[Ernie] Trite~Elegy I'm sorry I didn't point out every single religious ridden country. My view on religion is very simple. The religion itself may have good intentions, but people themselves are nasty and vile, therefore, people practicing religion more often than not use the religion for...well nasty and vile doings. I know islam itself is not the problem - it's the people. Good job, you just generalized a whole group of people. If you really do believe the people are the problem, why didn't you just say "countries ruled by religious nutjobs"? You completely missed my point. My problem was that you singled Islam out. There's no reason to only point out the "Muslim" countries and use their ******** up governments and leaders as a reason to write everyone else off, when you could just as easily say "those fundamentalist assholes". Singling out the "Muslim" countries (and no other group of countries) implies that you think that Islam inherently oppresses women and that misogyny is a required part of their beliefs. There is no doubt that there is sexism in Islam, just as there is sexism is most organized religion. That's no reason to only point out the "Muslim" countries, as if Islam is solely at fault for the terrible treatment of women. Quote: But it's hard for a person like me to believe there are good religious fairing people in the world when you're studying how 11 girls burned to death due to the fact that Saudi arabia's religious police would not let them escape their burning school because they did not have their full female head to toe getup that their wahhabism version of islam requires for them to be seen by anyone other then close blood relatives. Nepal may be 'secular' in govt. but like the Iran, it's the ayatollah (head religious person) running things, not president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. That's no excuse for slapping a label and description on a group of people based on your perceptions of their religion. You also don't need to point out the atrocities of the Saudi Arabian government like I don't know s**t about what they do, either. I'm not ignorant, thank you.
I tried being nice to you but you just had to take it upon yourself to act as the more 'moral' and 'just' one.
YEAH I KNOW, I generalized muslims. Big ******** deal. Like you're a perfect princess yourself. (which you imply by making me out to be the b***h of the thread)
Well wouldn't you know I also have problems with catholics/christians/shiks/ dozen or so religions too!
"Singling out the "Muslim" countries (and no other group of countries) implies that you think that Islam inherently oppresses women and that misogyny is a required part of their beliefs. There is no doubt that there is sexism in Islam, just as there is sexism is most organized religion. That's no reason to only point out the "Muslim" countries, as if Islam is solely at fault for the terrible treatment of women."
I singled them out because it's just too ******** convenient that they're all on the s**t side of the list and they all practice islam out of the rest of the countries. Explain that one to me Ernie, because anything else you say about them in explanation will just be another generalization.
I mean saying it's the area is a generalization and all together wrong because now you get to explain the anomaly of the jews originating from the area yet they treat women better then those practicing islam.
You also can't blame it on the 'fundamental bastards themselves' due to the fact that the world has quite a few of those spread out evenly. Explain Pol Pot to me - he wasn't Muslim, but most importantly explain to me why it's the Islamic countries producing these fundamental bastards like bacteria breed. It can't just be their religion right?
Explain it too me Ernie, why are all of those countries at the end of the list?
Because apparently you take me as a fool for having a bias.
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:05 pm
It sucks a** that the U.S. has fallen. I never expected it to fall that badly.
Is it post-feminism and the rise of raunch culture (That Ariel Levy talks about) that is influencing this? Is it the rise of a right-wing, conservative, fundamental religious element (Of Christianity) taking over these secular nations (like the other industrialized nations that have sunk, like France and Italy) and trying to reverse all feminist progress...? Is it both?
Oh, and about the religions: Both Christianity and Islam creep me the ******** out. This is because both religions are exclusivist in orientation (so that they tend not to be tolerant of other religions or different people). Whereas all of the other religions in the world seem to be inclusivist in that they at least tolerate other religions existing. And both Islam and Christianity have historically contributed to so much violence and bloodshed. I believe that both religions can be liberal and work in a secular society if the adherents do not interpret their religious works literally. Fundamentalism is dangerous. These religious works are archaic and do not exactly address a modern time, they are contradictory in that the same book can say two different things, have flawed logic, etc. Basically, any a*****e can quote any part of said religious book and take the podium to it as an authentic religious message. Since logic is out of the window here, sensationalism and emotionalism apply there... and we know how easily the masses can be swayed. Both works have plenty of negative attitudes against women (though a liberal viewpoint can suggest more positive portrayal's of women through religious apologetics). But if taken literally... these works definitely and practically hurt, oppress, and repress women.
So while Islam has some problems with corrupt leaders of Islamic countries, fundamentalist terrorist groups, religious rule of Sharia Law, etc, let's not forget how dangerous Christianity is too.
Those Christian-Secular-First-World countries just has a more covert and subtle oppression than the overt oppression that is seen in the Islamic-Developing states.
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Tragic Christmas Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:39 am
Can we just stop the religion bashing, please? If you've cracked open the written works of any religion, you'd know that it's rife with both positive and negative things that any fundamentalist can twist and manipulate for their own interpretation. Just compare the Old Testament and the New Testament of the bible. If you acknowledge that people are inherently flawed, then it shouldn't be hard to make the connection that some followers are going to be that way as well.
I see secular countries like Japan still faring worse than countries with a pronounced religious population (ie. Israel, Spain, the list goes on). For example, Spain identifies as predominantly Catholic. Yet at the same time, they're not very observant and they're also one of the few nations that have legalized same-sex marriage. You can't just point fingers and blame things on belief systems, especially when the "backward" countries tend to be less developed as a whole (infrastructure, social services, economy, etc.) than the progressive ones.
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Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:26 am
The way i see it, if any religion actually ran itself the way its holy text(s) says to the world would be an amazingly beautiful place. Of course, none do. So, there you have it.
And you know what guys, at least we can always say that we beat france! We at least have that to hang on to! crying
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Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:23 am
Actually, Trite, given all the anti-Muslim hysteria throughout the US, generalizing Muslims is a "big ******** deal". I don't think you'd be too happy if I decided to label every non-religious person as a self-righteous thought-policeperson. (Not that I believe that at all.) Also, I'd like to know how my posts come off as arrogant. Because I'm not seeing it. neutral Quote: Like you're a perfect princess yourself. (which you imply by making me out to be the b***h of the thread) ... What? All I did was point out that you shouldn't generalize Islam and single it out. How the hell is that making you "out to be the b***h of the thread"? It's just a ******** criticism. I get them all the time. Quote: You also can't blame it on the 'fundamental bastards themselves' due to the fact that the world has quite a few of those spread out evenly. Actually, yes I can. The difference between countries with fundamentalist leaders and countries with fundamentalist citizens is that the former allowed the extremists into power. The United States isn't ruled by the likes of James Dobson and the late Jerry Falwell because those guys can't get elected. In countries like Saudi Arabia (which is an absolute monarchy), the citizens can't help who their leader is unless they kill him. It's not because of Islam that it's a ******** country; it's because their government is a monarchy the likes of which have not been seen since before the Magna Carta was signed in 1215. They don't have a Constitution or a legislature. Only men can vote. That's why women are so marginalized. Quote: explain to me why it's the Islamic countries producing these fundamental bastards like bacteria breed. It can't just be their religion right? They're not the only fundamentalists. Everyone in this guild knows about people like James Dobson and Pat Robertson. Middle Eastern countries aren't the only ones cranking out fundamentalists. Again, the only reason the nutjobs are in power is because of the way their government is set up (which, I repeat, has nothing to do with their religion). Also, the countries with predominantly Muslim populations (and governments) that are not as advanced when it comes to women's rights are that way because they haven't yet acknowledged the idea of women being equal to men, just like pre-Magna Carta England. There are women's rights groups and underground movements happening right now in those countries, which is a lot better than what the fundamentalist Christian countries were doing five hundred years ago. Yes, their religion influences it (there's no denying that), but, as I've said before, Islam does not inherently oppress women. Misogyny is just as much a cornerstone of their religion as it is any other religion founded a couple thousand years ago. See islam_feminism on livejournal. Grip of Death So while Islam has some problems with corrupt leaders of Islamic countries, fundamentalist terrorist groups, religious rule of Sharia Law, etc, let's not forget how dangerous Christianity is too. Thank you. You said what I've been trying to say.
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![[Ernie]'s avatar](https://a1cdn.gaiaonline.com/dress-up/avatar/ava/92/33/c08bbf4183392_flip.png?t=1464681375_6.00_00)
