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The ninja sword. Most people know of the straight bladed and produced ninja-to from the ninja boom of the 80's, when Nunchuks were in great demand and people could be seen beating each other round the head with them.



I myself am in possesion of this certain, rather suspicious, weapon and must say that even though it I highly devoted to taking out the shido, that it is most fun to train with.

Anyway...I have searched through many forums and it seems that the opinions of this blade are split apart into two general groups; ninja crazed geeks and serious artists. For example, the curvature of a katana comes from the use of two different types of steel as well as the differential tempering. The katana has a soft steel core. Furthermore the differential tempering means that the edge is cooled more quickly than the rest of the blade. The result is the beautiful curvature. Now if one tries to make his own sword without these traits, one will find it is far easier to make a straight blade weapon. Although this all seems consistent with the poor ninja who uses what he has available, I have no idea if there is any connection there.

I would assume, from looking at both Ashida Kim and SKH books *shudders* that the blade was merely a child of the 80's ninja boom and had no real excistence in the hands of a real 'ninja'.

Apparently the Shinobigatana is basically a shorter version of a Katana, being curved and not straight yet easily concealed because of its size. I do not claim to know if a ninja-to ever excisted historically and was wondering if people could give me some opinions?

Taijutsuguy

Well, the blade you own, is in fact a fake. Never were the straight-bladed, sqaure tsuba used in by a ninja, or as a matter of fact anyone from japan.

These are just imaginary things from th ninja boom.
The sword was never used as a "platform" for the ninja, and the ninja used and treated their swords the same as a samurai would.

I hate double posting but I don't want people to think I'm some sort of Naruto freak, I own a daisho set and practice Iaido, so having a ninja-to doesn't really bother me that much.

Perhaps it's solely because of the knowledge I've accumulated over the years, or the fact that I have a highly logical mindset, but I am often suprised at the sheer volume of such questions on the various forums of which I am a part of.

That being the case however, since (I am assuming) you are relatively young, inexperienced, and students within Hatsumi's Bujinkan I am willing to briefly empart some knowledge.

In order to fully answer your question one must look at the origin of the Ninja and how they integreted (or rather, did not) within fuedal Japan's society. Those of you who are familiar with China's past can more then attest to her violent, war filled past, and it is from this area largely that the Ninja legend began.

Refugee's of a violent land, perscuted Chinese opted to take the journey from Japan to China rather then stay and attempt to survive in their hostile homeland. Poor, homeless and generally distraught the refugee's landed in Japan.

From around there, facts, logic and education supposition on the behalf of dedicated historians flesh out the story. Though particular regions are unknown (though heavily assumed to be either the Koga or Iga mountain ranges) it is known that many refugee's took to forests for survival.

The reasoning more then likely being that shelter would be more readily found in forested plains then wide open areas, that there would be some element of peace and that various animals may be hunted. What is known however is that the forest dwellers were largely agricultural and more than likely worked the fields and forests around them to sustain a living.

There exsistance doubtedly more then a rumour for the large part, the governments tax collectors were curious. They were living off Japanese land, eating Japanese product etc as such, surely they were able to be taxed.

Assumedly, a fight outbroke bewteen the messanger/tax collectors (more then likely using the forest to their advantage, armed with crude farmer tools and with a base knowledge of chinese martial arts) where the "ninja" where victorious. Hence the title, YamaBushi or forest warrior

Either way the Japanese officials responded in undue force and wiped them out completely, one can see that if one was in requirement of spies then disgruntled tax evading refugee peasents would be far from ideal.

Also, one must account for their living conditions, as mentioned in another guild thread, compared to other places, Japan had very little steel, in order to safeguard ther (seemingly constant) war effort the Japanese often guarded these with an almost draconic quality. Though it suggested that the Ninja were able to bring basic farming tools with them, the suggestion that they would be able to acquire precious steel is ridiculous.

If anything, I believe that the weapons they used against the tax collectors would either be farming tools.

Secondly, let us look at clothing. Since synthetic materials were unavailable during the time, the only way to create black clothing would be through stain dyeing materials black...an unlikely option for our Yamabushi.

Plus, as far as espionage goes, using black clothing in a land composed mainly of trees and mountains over natural colours is...plain stupid, also Japanese strongholds (or whatever one would call the home of a lord) where well guarded and brightly lit.

It has been suggested however, that the clothing and equipment may have been provided by the mercenaries current master, and that despite their supreme lack of martial skill they were hired mainly due to their expendability. However considering the forest dwellers lack of requirement for gold, and an urge to live out their lives in peace it seems unlikely. Blackmail perhaps? Do not forget that they were rather quickly and brutally...removed from their forests.

Supposition exsists that some may have fled, however, considering the brutal effectiveness of Japanese Samurai as a clearing unit it is highly unlikely that the "Ninja" would have survived for long.

In many ways the "ninja" became the James Bond of Fuedal Japan, stories to entertain and frighten, inviting a more steadfast reaction to the unaccountable and a much needed release from everyday life as a soldier.

Ineed, it was around the Edo period that the name Ninja was adopted for dramatic reasons. And, as has been proven elsewhere, a large portion of ninja history (rather then the hard fact based one given) was created by Hatsumi and if the Ninja did exsist in some form, then it would be far from what he suggests.

Was the Ninja To an authentic weapon? Of course not. Did Ninja ever exsist? Highly, highly doubtful, and something far different from the history peddled by the Bujinkan, although alot of Jinenkan schools teach a history much closer to the truth, grounded in fact and rigorously backed by evidence, Genbuken however seem to take an almost mythical approach.

Anyone harbouring fantasies of some effective Ninjutsu fighting style, complex code of ethics, Ninja families and silent mid night assasins however, will be sorely, sorely mistaken.

Hhmmm, I'm only 15 but have trained for since I was six in the Bujinkan. My father trained before I did so it sort of runs in the family, as for the knowledge you have accumulated, I am not a complete idiot.



Are you saying that Hatsumi doesn't really have any scrolls from his previous teacher and that the fighting art he has trained in is flawed by the fact of a non-factual background?



I'd agree with you on most of that certainly however as far as an effective Ninjutsu fighting system goes, I'd say it was pretty effective, though I've had to use it twice for any serious reason.

I have the whole history of the Togakure Ryu in a small folder, what you have just told me now makes it seem like utter crap, though there are no stories of mid-night killings nor black clad assassins I'd say it sticks to facts.



One last thing from that point. Who ever said they soley wore black? Hatsumi himself has said they wore any colour that would blend in...dark brown's, whites, deep purples (not sure about that), as far as myths and legends go I'm pretty sure I've got the factual end of the stick.

This has been discussed to death on Gaia and on other forums, please research more on other websites such as Bullshido.net and I'm sure you shall find a multitude of sources.

And why would you be so suprised I'm calling BS on Hatsumi? I do it all the time, we all do. If you find that offensive then please pick up your panties on the way out.

You say you find Taijutsu effective for you? Then great, as for its history, is that why you're really into it? If thats the case then I suggest you take up another hobby...little knitting.

Would you really want to credit one of your biggest legends of being of foreign descent? I think not.

Sorry if I misunderstood Jass, but it's kind of early in the morning for someone like me.

Are you saying that ninja are of Chinese descent? I've heard the term Forest Demons before, although I could just have a bad memory. Anyway, the way I heard them described was as a Chinese version of the Japanese ninjas, not as the ninjas themselves.

Tell me how Genbukan's history is almost completely mythical.