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 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:28 pm
Here's an interesting topic of discussion, for me.
While I'm focusing mainly on movies in my discussion, you can use what I'm saying, and substitute books, or paintings, or any art form. Hence the title. 3nodding
I watch an extreme amount of movies-- Ask anyone who knows me. And ever since I've been interested in the abortion debate (having switched sides before; Yes, I'm a flip-flopper, shoot me), no matter what my opinion was at the time, I've searched out movies that say something about the abortion issue, either for or against, and it's definitely turned into some of the most intense cinematic experiences of my life.
One of the movies I urge you to seek out is called "Palindromes", Directed by Todd Solondz. It's a challenging and very stylized film about both sides of the Abortion issue, as seen through the eyes of Aviva, a 13 year old girl. Her pregnancy, and the drama surrounding it and its' aftermath are at the center of the film, and pretty much all of the characters in this film are at an ideological standstill, because they're all convinced that the other people who disagree with them are going straight to hell. It's one of the best films I've seen about abortion because it doesn't pander to either the pro-life, or pro-choice sides-- it sees all the viewpoints, and how the individuals use their beliefs to justify what they want.
Another film I enjoyed, though found quite flawed dramatically at many points, was "If these Walls Could Talk" It's a staunchly pro-choice film about three women living in the same house in different eras, and how abortion affects them. Demi Moore plays a woman who suffers through the 1950s, when abortion was illegal. Sissy Spacek plays a mother raising three kids, faced with financial difficulties and another pregnancy, and how she comes to make her decision. And Cher stars in the last segment as an abortion doctor, and is the matriarch of the clinic. I suppose if you're pro-choice, you'll enjoy the film as it affirms the pro-choice belief, but from a pro-life standpoint, the "answers" it provides are a little... easy for the issue as a whole. A little less bias would have helped the film dramatically too, I believe.
There are a lot of Science fiction movies out there that explore the ideas behind abortion, but don't attack it directly. "The Island", and "Blade Runner" were two good ones, because they weaved the questions of "humanity" and "what makes a person a person" into the storyline with good dramatic storytelling and a solid heart.
But instead of telling you the movies I like, I want to hear some from you? Have there been any movies, books, comics or art pieces that have influenced or stimulated your opinion on abortion? Why?
Or, did you see the films I mentioned? If so, what'd you think?
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Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:43 pm
Alot of other science fiction movies and books can be uised to explore issues relating to Abortion. Some of the Star Wars books can be looked to. In the universe that makes up Star Wars, Cyborgs (part man part machine) are HIGHLY looked down upon by society. In two or three of the book series, a faction of humans wanted them utterly destroyed (I dont knwo the book, I only know of the HUman First movment form reading about them in the Essential Chronology)
Star Trek can also be a source. Noonuin Sung (SP Lyme?) once tried to create enhanced humans (if history serves right) and many people wanted both these humans and Sung executed.
I have to agree. Science fiction is the genre to look at if your looking for a fantasy's look on what makes us human...or what classifies as human.
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:14 am
Truthfully, I stay away from movies with abortion themes, generally speaking. Either they treat it too callously, and I get really upset, or it's really extreme and I get frusterated. Plus generally speaking, the most outspoken pro-lifers tend to be Christian and thus the pro-life side always seems to get skewed in that direction. Which is annoying.
However I do enjoy the song "Brick" by Ben Folds (Five? I don't remember if it's just him, or if it's the band), which kind of discusses abortion from the guys point of view. It's not really pro-life or pro-choice, but the overall feeling the song gives is that he doesn't want the abortion to happen (from the line "Can't you see? It's not me you're dying for.") but at the same time he doesn't really try and hinder the abortion either.
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:43 am
I've seen some of "If These Walls Could Talk 2" which is about lesbians, and not abortion. I haven't seen the first one.
I've seen "Cider House Rules" which is about abortion, and I read most of the book. If you were to forgo watching the end, the main character is very Pro-Life, and then switches because of a young woman who became pregnant by her father near the end. It's a really rather depressing movie, and I would imagine more so for people who are Pro-Life.
I've also seen two of the four episodes of House about abortion.
There's a move coming out next year called "Juno" which is about Open Adoption, which might be good (or not). Oh, and "Saved" is about a pregnancy which is kept by a teenage girl.
Also, I watch a lot of commercials about adopting teens (are those everywhere, or an Ohio thing?). We have DVR, but I'll actually stop it to watch those commercials, because I want to adopt an older sibling group when we can afford it (and have a house large enough).
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:06 pm
I know in the book "Memoirs of a Geisha" Mameha had at least one abortion. I believe she did so cause the Barron didn't want any children (plus I think he was married in the book).
I saw the movie "Saved", I though it was so dumb and cheesey.
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:24 pm
sachiko_sohma I saw the movie "Saved", I though it was so dumb and cheesey. Really? I thought it was pretty funny, but more serious than I was expecting it to be. I'm not Christian, let alone Fundamentalist Christian, so I probably have a very different viewpoint on it than many other people do, though.
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:19 pm
WatersMoon110 sachiko_sohma I saw the movie "Saved", I though it was so dumb and cheesey. Really? I thought it was pretty funny, but more serious than I was expecting it to be. I'm not Christian, let alone Fundamentalist Christian, so I probably have a very different viewpoint on it than many other people do, though. I'm not a Christian. It just seemed like a cheesey comedy. But I hadn't seen it in along time so I can't remember most of it.
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:49 pm
Ooh! Todd Solondz!! heart
I've seen, but not read, Blade Runner, and that's about it. Has anyone seen "Bella?"
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:11 pm
WatersMoon110 sachiko_sohma I saw the movie "Saved", I though it was so dumb and cheesey. Really? I thought it was pretty funny, but more serious than I was expecting it to be. I'm not Christian, let alone Fundamentalist Christian, so I probably have a very different viewpoint on it than many other people do, though.
It's a little preachy at the end, but I thought it made some good points for Christian tolerance.
And yes, Zinny, Todd Solondz is sexy. Well, he's kind of nerdy actually, but his movies are among some of my faves.
Like "Welcome to the Dollhouse", "Happiness", "Storytelling",... He makes interesting movies, that's for damn sure. Never boring.
What's "Bella" about?
Waters:"Cider House Rules" was rather depressing. I thought it was quite manipulative (Not for the abortion part), in terms of emotional resonance. And that was definitely not Tobey Maguire's movie, and I didn't really believe him in it.
Overall, I thought it was okay, but as far as movies go, it didn't have much of a point. I'm sure the book was better.
There's a scene I like in another movie called "Happy Endings". (rent it. Good gay movie.<3) It has an abortion counselor who regrets giving up her child, who is counseling this woman, who is pretty hostile to her, and she refers to the child as a "baby".
Patient: You're not supposed to call it a baby. I'm pretty sure about that.
Counselor: Does it bother you to call it a baby?
Patient: Yeah, but that's because you're going to kill it and suck it out of me-- What the ******** are you, Pro-life?
Counselor: I was just asking. I'm pro-choice, of course.
And this woman had sex with her new husband's gay son before she got married, so she had an abortion because she didn't know who the father was.
Movies can make points in interesting ways.
3nodding heart
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:21 pm
The Serpent's Shadow by Mercedes Lackey mentions abortion, as the doctor in it is willing to preform them for "working women" (prostitutes). She also saves a woman and baby when the woman needs an operation while heavily pregnant, so it isn't like anti-baby or anything (the author is Pro-Choice, though, and it does show in the first bit). Also the doctor in the book educates women about contraceptive methods (the book takes place in Industrial Revolution Era England), so at least it is consistent in message on that point.
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:13 pm
"Vera Drake", another compelling movie. heart
Now this one doesn't really take a side for abortion one way or the other, but rather focuses on the families that are affected by the unfair state of the law in England in the 1950s. Although you could say that the way the film is resolved (and stacked in the emotional sense) has the faint whiff of pro-choice, more than pro-life. Although to me, it doesn't make any difference because the movie's so damn good!
In a parallel story in the film, it is show that if a woman had 100 pounds (UK currency), they could obtain a legal abortion, safe and clean, After they saw a psychiatrist ensuring that it was necessary that they have the abortion. And if they had 2 pounds, 2 shillings, they had to give a call to Mrs. Vera Drake, a housemaid, mother, wife, caregiver, and abortionist. The interesting thing about Vera is that a) she doesn't charge for the abortions. the woman who gives her the names of the women who need abortions, and b) Vera does house-calls. Also, it's interesting the way Vera rationalizes what she does.
She's having a conversation with someone, and they say "You perform abortions."
Vera looks up, and says, insistently, through tears: "That's not what I do, dear. That's what you call it, but... they need help. They got no one else to turn to, I help them out."
Now, this film made me have many, many, MANY conflicting thoughts, but It definitely didn't bore me-- and That, to me, no matter what the viewpoint or even the resolution (which is both sad and fitting for the movie) is, makes "Vera Drake" one not to be missed.
Edit: Quote edited for accuracy.
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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:49 am
McPhee "Vera Drake", another compelling movie. heart
Now this one doesn't really take a side for abortion one way or the other, but rather focuses on the families that are affected by the unfair state of the law in England in the 1950s. Although you could say that the way the film is resolved (and stacked in the emotional sense) has the faint whiff of pro-choice, more than pro-life. Although to me, it doesn't make any difference because the movie's so damn good!
In a parallel story in the film, it is show that if a woman had 100 pounds (UK currency), they could obtain a legal abortion, safe and clean, After they saw a psychiatrist ensuring that it was necessary that they have the abortion. And if they had 2 pounds, 2 shillings, they had to give a call to Mrs. Vera Drake, a housemaid, mother, wife, caregiver, and abortionist. The interesting thing about Vera is that a) she doesn't charge for the abortions. the woman who gives her the names of the women who need abortions, and b) Vera does house-calls. Also, it's interesting the way Vera rationalizes what she does.
She's having a conversation with someone, and they say "You perform abortions."
Vera looks up, and says, insistently, through tears: "That's not what I do, dear. These women need help-- I help them."
Now, this film made me have many, many, MANY conflicting thoughts, but It definitely didn't bore me-- and That, to me, no matter what the viewpoint or even the resolution (which is both sad and fitting for the movie) is, makes "Vera Drake" one not to be missed.
I'll look for that, it sounds very interesting.
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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:12 pm
I recommend it highly, obviously.
Directed by Mike Leigh. He's not made a bad film, ever.
And the interesting thing about Vera, and what gives you so much sympathy with her despite what she does, is that she's got that quality where she could be your mother... or your aunt, or... you know, someone you care about. And the details of life in the film are so spot on, and really perceptive about Vera and her family.
Imelda Staunton's performance as the title character is probably the best performance of that year. 2004, I believe.
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Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:44 am
http://www.lyricsondemand.com/c/colbiecaillatlyrics/caprilyrics.htmlQuote: She’s got a baby inside And holds her belly tight All through the night Just so she knows She’s sleeping so Safely to keep Her growing And oh when she'll open her eyes There'll be no surprise That she'll grow to be So beautifully Just like her mother That’s carrying Oh Capri She’s beauty Baby inside she’s loving Oh Capri She’s beauty There is and angel growin’ peacefully Oh Capri Sweet baby And things will be hard at times But I've learned to try Just listening Patiently, oh Capri Sweet baby Oh Capri She’s beauty Baby inside she’s loving Oh Capri Your beauty Just like your mother That’s carrying...Oh Capri
Just a very simple, cute song about a mother and a baby. The lyrics, the way she sings it, the sweetness of the song. It touched me, I have to say. I mean, who writes a song about a happy pregnancy?
Download it, or buy the CD. This song is adorable.<3
Not really about abortion, more about babies.
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:27 am
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Reply
