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This is why I don't like the first amendment Goto Page: 1 2 3 [>] [»|]

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Twizted Humanitarian
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:38 am


ORONO, Maine - A University of Maine student alleges her former professor offered extra credit to class members if they burned the American flag or the U.S. Constitution or were arrested defending free speech.

On the first day of class, associate professor Paul Grosswiler offered the credit to members of his History of Mass Communications class, according to sophomore Rebekah McDade. Disturbed by the comment, McDade dropped the class and intends to take the course again next semester with a different professor.

"I was offended," McDade said Friday. "I come from a family of military men and women, and the flag and Constitution are really important symbols to me because of my family background."

In an e-mail responding to a request for comment from the Bangor Daily News on Friday, Grosswiler said he thought McDade misunderstood the class discussion, which was intended to elicit thought about the First Amendment. He said he has held this same discussion for years without incident.

"I don’t intend for students to burn either the Constitution or the flag, and over the years hundreds of students have understood that," Grosswiler wrote.

The incident was made public recently when The Leadership Institute, a Virginia-based nonprofit organization, distributed a press release detailing the classroom discussion.

The Leadership Institute was founded in 1979 by Morton Blackwell and has a mission to identify, recruit, train and place conservatives in politics, government and the media, according to the organization’s Web site.

A field representative for the institute met McDade on Oct. 1 at UM, when she shared her experience and expressed an interest in spearheading a group "Students for Academic Freedom," Blackwell said Friday.

The group’s initial goal would be to convince UM to enact a "Student Bill of Rights," as other colleges have, which would protect students from professors who treat and grade students differently based on religious or political beliefs, McDade said. The institute has assisted McDade in the startup process, she said.

"When we heard the story, we said ‘Hey, this is probably worthwhile our doing a news release,’" Blackwell said. "When you expose leftist abuses, it invigorates conservatives. I am sure that the administration, like most administrations we deal with, is not happy when leftist abuses come to life. They far prefer to have students under their thumb and indoctrinated."

McDade said Friday she was a little uncomfortable with the publicity and that it might have gotten out of hand. She said her intent was not to put the focus on Grosswiler, but to give students an opportunity to voice their concerns.

A journalism and political science double major, McDade said the first class of her fall semester at UM began with the typical syllabus introduction and class overview. Despite repeated "liberal" comments made by Grosswiler, McDade said, she was not uncomfortable in the classroom until the flag burning comment.

"Everyone is entitled to their own political beliefs, and more power to you if you are passionate about it," McDade said.

When Grosswiler listed the extra-credit opportunities, McDade said the class of approximately 50 students grew very quiet, and some questioned whether he was serious.

At first, student Kathleen Dame said she thought Grosswiler was joking, but then he went on to explain to the class that burning the flag was not illegal. While Grosswiler approached the topic in a serious manner, Dame said she felt he used it as a tool to educate the class on the First Amendment.

"It was pretty outlandish and [he was] trying to prove a point," Dame said Friday.

While McDade said she would not be surprised if students followed through with the flag burning, Dame disagreed.

UM spokesman Joe Carr said Friday that Grosswiler’s classroom comments were not intended to be taken literally and that extra credit would not be granted for carrying out such activities.

A second person in the class did submit a complaint about the lecture, but Carr did not know in what form it was filed.

When asked whether the university would pursue disciplinary action, Carr replied, "No."

He said Grosswiler has worked at the University of Maine since 1991, is one of the more veteran professors in the department of communication and journalism, and is a "well-respected member of the faculty."

In his e-mail Friday, Grosswiler, who is a former BDN employee, explained that he refers to provocative examples, such as flag burning, to demonstrate the courage necessary to support free expression.

"If they don’t tolerate thought that they hate, they don’t believe in the First Amendment," he wrote.

"I applaud the student’s exercise of free expression. If she had stayed in the class, I would have given her extra credit for publicizing her opinions."
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:07 pm


i do agree that the whole flag burning would be a bad idea but it has been takin to the federal courts and is fully covered by the first amendment
there is still no excuse for the response that he got for offering the extra credit because its just another way to teach the students to be themselves and showing them the rights they have as an american citizan

Metal Lives


Twizted Humanitarian
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:32 am


deathmetal01
i do agree that the whole flag burning would be a bad idea but it has been takin to the federal courts and is fully covered by the first amendment
there is still no excuse for the response that he got for offering the extra credit because its just another way to teach the students to be themselves and showing them the rights they have as an american citizan


thats why I don't think the first amendment is right for america and it should be eliminated from our bill of rights
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:25 pm


Jungle Ghost
deathmetal01
i do agree that the whole flag burning would be a bad idea but it has been takin to the federal courts and is fully covered by the first amendment
there is still no excuse for the response that he got for offering the extra credit because its just another way to teach the students to be themselves and showing them the rights they have as an american citizan


thats why I don't think the first amendment is right for america and it should be eliminated from our bill of rights
How do you think that? If we were only going to allow popular and accepted speech, we wouldn't need the first amendment. It was created specifically to protect the rights of those whose viwes are unpopular and/or offesive. When you think aout it, that is the only kind of speech that would NEED to be protected. This also means that any and all forms of forced censorship are in violation of the spirit, if apparently not the wording, of the first amendment.

Besides, if we allow one part of the bill of rights to be removed, we open the door for ALL of them to be removed, which would make this nation even more of a mockery of freedom than it is now. Like the Soviet Union, we would claim to be all about the people and their rights, but in actuality we would only be living under the firm hand of a tyrannical government.

Priestess_Kelina

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Twizted Humanitarian
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:56 pm


Priestess_Kelina
Jungle Ghost
deathmetal01

Besides, if we allow one part of the bill of rights to be removed, we open the door for ALL of them to be removed, which would make this nation even more of a mockery of freedom than it is now. Like the Soviet Union, we would claim to be all about the people and their rights, but in actuality we would only be living under the firm hand of a tyrannical government.


Yeah... and the problem with that is?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:56 pm


Actually, I think it should be interesting to note the the USA is the ONLY country with Freedom of Speech, but other nations seem to be doing perfectly fine, with much less crime.

For example, in Canada, it is illegal to make hateful, rascist, inflamitory and overtly militant comments in public.

In Germany, they go all out to destroy even the name Nazi, simply viewing a Swatsika can get you a prison sentence.

But besides all that, that Professor is a disgrace, actively urging students to become unpatritotic dissidents, even if I hate America the citizens should bloody well be proud and loyal to the World Superpower.

Hentai_Heitai_FRF


Priestess_Kelina

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:16 pm


Jungle Ghost
Priestess_Kelina
Jungle Ghost
deathmetal01

Besides, if we allow one part of the bill of rights to be removed, we open the door for ALL of them to be removed, which would make this nation even more of a mockery of freedom than it is now. Like the Soviet Union, we would claim to be all about the people and their rights, but in actuality we would only be living under the firm hand of a tyrannical government.


Yeah... and the problem with that is?
It truely scares me that you don't see a problem with this. I"m afraid that you, along with nearly everyone else, will have to learn the hard way what it is to live without freedom before you can see the importance of having it. On the upside, you won't have to wait all that long, the way things are going.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:01 pm


FubarRedFerret
Actually, I think it should be interesting to note the the USA is the ONLY country with Freedom of Speech, but other nations seem to be doing perfectly fine, with much less crime.

For example, in Canada, it is illegal to make hateful, rascist, inflamitory and overtly militant comments in public.

In Germany, they go all out to destroy even the name Nazi, simply viewing a Swatsika can get you a prison sentence.

But besides all that, that Professor is a disgrace, actively urging students to become unpatritotic dissidents, even if I hate America the citizens should bloody well be proud and loyal to the World Superpower.


fully true it is because of our rights as americans that we are the worlds greatest power today if we didnt have the freedom of speech the life that you live on a regular day to day basis would vanish. you couldnt make a joke regarding anything that was happening in the counry and as a result the entire country would have to give up most other rights as well because if we cant talk down on any form of politics then how can we hold a conversation? or even just be free to do what we are allowed to by the constitution? you wouldnt have the entertainment industry any more to provide taxes off of each album or ticket sale to fund more government activity. then you couldnt have any comics or musicians or anybody who might have a different view on the whole world much less the country.

Metal Lives


Twizted Humanitarian
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:03 pm


and then the world would be a better place twisted
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:32 am


Jungle Ghost
and then the world would be a better place twisted


how so? it would just make living in this country more boring. there would be nothin to do ever because you would have to watch every thing that you say cause it might be taken offensivly by even just 1 person and then youd get fined just for essentially being an american.

Metal Lives


Twizted Humanitarian
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:39 am


deathmetal01
Jungle Ghost
and then the world would be a better place twisted


how so? it would just make living in this country more boring. there would be nothin to do ever because you would have to watch every thing that you say cause it might be taken offensivly by even just 1 person and then youd get fined just for essentially being an american.


well for one there would be no outward racism, and we would be a stronger country because we would at least on the surface be united as one for the whole world to see
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:05 am


Jungle Ghost
deathmetal01
Jungle Ghost
and then the world would be a better place twisted


how so? it would just make living in this country more boring. there would be nothin to do ever because you would have to watch every thing that you say cause it might be taken offensivly by even just 1 person and then youd get fined just for essentially being an american.


well for one there would be no outward racism, and we would be a stronger country because we would at least on the surface be united as one for the whole world to see


we wouldnt be united at all through all of the rebellions america would face and the rebels would actually make america weaker because we would have inside terrorism to deal with when most of the people decided they just wernt happy with the way that they would be forced to live

Metal Lives


Twizted Humanitarian
Crew

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:43 am


deathmetal01
Jungle Ghost
deathmetal01
Jungle Ghost
and then the world would be a better place twisted


how so? it would just make living in this country more boring. there would be nothin to do ever because you would have to watch every thing that you say cause it might be taken offensivly by even just 1 person and then youd get fined just for essentially being an american.


well for one there would be no outward racism, and we would be a stronger country because we would at least on the surface be united as one for the whole world to see


we wouldnt be united at all through all of the rebellions america would face and the rebels would actually make america weaker because we would have inside terrorism to deal with when most of the people decided they just wernt happy with the way that they would be forced to live


and then we would use informants to find out who's who and have secret police go kill them in the middle of the night.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:44 am


Jungle Ghost
deathmetal01
Jungle Ghost
deathmetal01
Jungle Ghost
and then the world would be a better place twisted


how so? it would just make living in this country more boring. there would be nothin to do ever because you would have to watch every thing that you say cause it might be taken offensivly by even just 1 person and then youd get fined just for essentially being an american.


well for one there would be no outward racism, and we would be a stronger country because we would at least on the surface be united as one for the whole world to see


we wouldnt be united at all through all of the rebellions america would face and the rebels would actually make america weaker because we would have inside terrorism to deal with when most of the people decided they just wernt happy with the way that they would be forced to live


and then we would use informants to find out who's who and have secret police go kill them in the middle of the night.


and by doing so turn america into a tyranical place where you have no rights and arent able to voice your opinion about anything.
because thats what all of the monarchs and dictators of the past have used to keep the people in check. and look where theyve ended up....most have fallen by now (exceptions being cuba,china,and north korea)

Metal Lives


Twizted Humanitarian
Crew

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:11 pm


deathmetal01
Jungle Ghost
deathmetal01
Jungle Ghost
deathmetal01
Jungle Ghost
and then the world would be a better place twisted


how so? it would just make living in this country more boring. there would be nothin to do ever because you would have to watch every thing that you say cause it might be taken offensivly by even just 1 person and then youd get fined just for essentially being an american.


well for one there would be no outward racism, and we would be a stronger country because we would at least on the surface be united as one for the whole world to see


we wouldnt be united at all through all of the rebellions america would face and the rebels would actually make america weaker because we would have inside terrorism to deal with when most of the people decided they just wernt happy with the way that they would be forced to live


and then we would use informants to find out who's who and have secret police go kill them in the middle of the night.


and by doing so turn america into a tyranical place where you have no rights and arent able to voice your opinion about anything.
because thats what all of the monarchs and dictators of the past have used to keep the people in check. and look where theyve ended up....most have fallen by now (exceptions being cuba,china,and north korea)


huh? iraq only fell because we made if fall
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