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 Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:26 pm
Hi, I just joined this guild this week or so. I'm curious about everyone's hand span. It's almost becoming an obsession, strangely. Anyways, I'm a 15 year old girl with a max span of -10th, although that requires me to stretch my hands 180 degrees. Too small for Rachmaninoff and some Scriabin pieces, I think. emo Got to work on rolls hard because of this.(All four of my favourite composers seem be fond of writing huge stretches)
Well, discuss hand spans and how it effects your playing? Hopefully, this thread will last. I do have the tendency to kill threads.
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Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:46 pm
If you can reach a tenth, your hands are not really that small, compared to many pianists I know...and that includes myself, since I can only comfortably stretch a 9th. ^^;
There are ways to get around it though--as you said, rolls are definitely an option (and it's way common now). My first instinct when I see large chords are to roll (i.e. in my Chopin Ballade), but in other times, stylistic performance would demand it broken instead (i.e. Debussy...was it La fille aux cheveux du lin?)
I've generally shied away from repertoire that makes heavy demands on large stretches (i.e. Rachmaninov), but it's my goal to work my way up since there are tons of good repertoire out there that I haven't explored yet.
If you do love Rachmaninov and Scriabin, you can always inspect some select pieces carefully--I've played one or two preludes by both composers and had no problem with hand spans. And since your hands are larger than mine, I'm sure you can play with more ease than me in more pieces. Good luck!
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Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:28 pm
Wings If you can reach a tenth, your hands are not really that small, compared to many pianists I know...and that includes myself, since I can only comfortably stretch a 9th. ^^; There are ways to get around it though--as you said, rolls are definitely an option (and it's way common now). My first instinct when I see large chords are to roll (i.e. in my Chopin Ballade), but in other times, stylistic performance would demand it broken instead (i.e. Debussy...was it La fille aux cheveux du lin?) I've generally shied away from repertoire that makes heavy demands on large stretches (i.e. Rachmaninov), but it's my goal to work my way up since there are tons of good repertoire out there that I haven't explored yet. If you do love Rachmaninov and Scriabin, you can always inspect some select pieces carefully--I've played one or two preludes by both composers and had no problem with hand spans. And since your hands are larger than mine, I'm sure you can play with more ease than me in more pieces. Good luck! Top 4 love list: Chopin, Scriabin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff. Liszt and Rachmaninoff out of question right now, but I think I'll manage with certain Chopin and Scriabin pieces, since they themselves have had small hands. In the Scriabin etudes I have played, it's actually indicated for the player to roll. I like those two more than teh big hand-ers anyways. I stay away from those too. By the way, about tenths, I can only reach a minor one (so not really bigger than your reach) and only because I loved playing around with my hands as a child and so, my finger webbings are somewhat loose(especially left hand, helpful for Chopin and Scriabin, since they seem to love to use huge big left hand chords. Can manage an awkward minor 6th or a comfortable P5th between the pinky and that fourth finger that I forgot the name of, that I'm happy with). About Debussy, my teacher and I discovered that I subconsciously despise Impressionist music (strange, considering that I love to listen to Gaspard de la nuit) for piano. Might switch to a post romantic piece for that section for the exam.
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:47 am
I an stretch a tenth...Just...
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Le Aristocrat Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:03 pm
Ah, it seems that a tenth is the limit of a lot of people...Some say that realistically, Liszt can only stretch a tenth comfortably or perhaps a generous 11th. Martha Argerich also could only stretch a major tenth. Well, let's see if we have some Rachmaninoff sized hands in this guild? 3nodding People with small hands, don't worry. Chopin and Scriabin could barely reach a ninth, and they were very esteemed pianists(listen to Scriabin's own interpretation of his op.8 no.12 etude, very powerful).
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:28 pm
Fryderyk Chopin Ah, it seems that a tenth is the limit of a lot of people...Some say that realistically, Liszt can only stretch a tenth comfortably or perhaps a generous 11th. Martha Argerich also could only stretch a major tenth. Well, let's see if we have some Rachmaninoff sized hands in this guild? 3nodding People with small hands, don't worry. Chopin and Scriabin could barely reach a ninth, and they were very esteemed pianists(listen to Scriabin's own interpretation of his op.8 no.12 etude, very powerful). Pianos back then also had marginally smaller keys than our standard nowadays. In fact, if there are pianists who truly need it, they can still get those types of key lengths customized for them (it'll probably cost a ton though). The tiny difference with each key can easily give players extra room to work with--I can reach a tenth on the fortepiano too. XD Not so sure if this applies to Scriabin as well, but the smaller keys definitely applies to Chopin and Liszt's time. In fact, Chopin's 9th would probably be closer to an octave on the modern piano... It's true that limited hand spans do not limit the capabilities of pianists though. ^^ Re. your earlier post: My pinky to ring finger can span a tritone at best. The stretch between my thumb and the fingers is still the most comfortable one since that's what I mainly stretched as a child (I didn't think much of stretching the distances between fingers, regrettably)...but the ability to play octaves with 1-3, 1-4 and 1-5 is very good for me. I can do it with 1-2 as well, but I don't find it used practically. Debussy and Ravel are big favourites of mine, especially Debussy who writes so pianistically and with so much imagination. Why don't you like that style of music? (I'm just curious)
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:52 pm
Wings Fryderyk Chopin Ah, it seems that a tenth is the limit of a lot of people...Some say that realistically, Liszt can only stretch a tenth comfortably or perhaps a generous 11th. Martha Argerich also could only stretch a major tenth. Well, let's see if we have some Rachmaninoff sized hands in this guild? 3nodding People with small hands, don't worry. Chopin and Scriabin could barely reach a ninth, and they were very esteemed pianists(listen to Scriabin's own interpretation of his op.8 no.12 etude, very powerful). Pianos back then also had marginally smaller keys than our standard nowadays. In fact, if there are pianists who truly need it, they can still get those types of key lengths customized for them (it'll probably cost a ton though). The tiny difference with each key can easily give players extra room to work with--I can reach a tenth on the fortepiano too. XD Not so sure if this applies to Scriabin as well, but the smaller keys definitely applies to Chopin and Liszt's time. In fact, Chopin's 9th would probably be closer to an octave on the modern piano... It's true that limited hand spans do not limit the capabilities of pianists though. ^^ Re. your earlier post: My pinky to ring finger can span a tritone at best. The stretch between my thumb and the fingers is still the most comfortable one since that's what I mainly stretched as a child (I didn't think much of stretching the distances between fingers, regrettably)...but the ability to play octaves with 1-3, 1-4 and 1-5 is very good for me. I can do it with 1-2 as well, but I don't find it used practically. Debussy and Ravel are big favourites of mine, especially Debussy who writes so pianistically and with so much imagination. Why don't you like that style of music? (I'm just curious) Eheh...It's not that I don't like them, but more like I don't like PLAYING them. I was assigned Debussy's first Arabesque for the post-romantic/impressionist section of my piano exam, but although it isn't as technically demanding as some Scriabin that I have played or some Chopin, I just couldn't get THAT sound. I could play the 4-3 rhythm in Scriabin's op.8 no.11 fine, but no matter how much I try, the 3-2 rhythm in the main melody of that arabesque always came out weird. Also, subject wise, Impressionists evoked images while Romantics evoked feelings. Feelings I think I can manage, but images are somewhat awkward to interpret. Like, the yearning found in Brahms and Chopin's music felt more natural to play than let's say, an image of a girl's hair. sweatdrop I hope the syllabus permits me to play that Scriabin nocturne op.9 no.2(what a coincidence, look at opus and no.), that piece is beautiful. I'm not sure if single handed pieces are allowed though(and that piece is not exactly a walk in the park, unless you cheat and play with both hands...).
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:45 pm
I'm a very visual person, so I guess that allowed me easier association with Impressionist music. :3 However, I believe there's an interplay of sensations and images as well. Taking La Fille... again for example, the two passages with the parallel chords in both hands I've always seen as long grass swaying in the wind. This would propel me to play those chords gently and in a swaying manner. And on the whole, it's not just the girl's hair alone, but also the feeling it evokes.
That's a beautiful Nocturne. I hope they'll allow the substitution! Exam boards are usually quite flexible as long as the difficulty level are on par. ^^
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:59 pm
Wings I'm a very visual person, so I guess that allowed me easier association with Impressionist music. :3 However, I believe there's an interplay of sensations and images as well. Taking La Fille... again for example, the two passages with the parallel chords in both hands I've always seen as long grass swaying in the wind. This would propel me to play those chords gently and in a swaying manner. And on the whole, it's not just the girl's hair alone, but also the feeling it evokes. That's a beautiful Nocturne. I hope they'll allow the substitution! Exam boards are usually quite flexible as long as the difficulty level are on par. ^^ I would think that I couldn't associate sound with images, but the strange thing is, Liszt's Mephisto Waltz is really visual, and yet(haven't played the whole thing yet, just the part in the beginning with Mephisto tuning his instrument and the famous part with Faust courting a maiden or something) I don't have as difficult of a time with getting that image out. Maybe I AM just subconsciously not fond of Impressionist stuff. Yeah, that nocturne was love at first hearing for me. Do you know the story why it was composed? It involved great anguish caused by Scriabin's way of playing a certain Liszt piece and hurting one of his hands in the process. At the time, the doctor thought he could never play with both hands again, but thankfully, he was wrong. Chances are though, the teacher would probably make me play another Debussy. crying EDIT: Scriabin playing his own etude. Look at the photo in the recording and look at those hands. This interpretation is just out of this world.
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:30 pm
Maybe it's because the Impressionist images are somewhat more abstract? XD
Interesting story to know, thank you. ^^ Which Liszt piece was he working on that caused the injury?
And you can perhaps try an Etude from Debussy instead? Or will they be too difficult?
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:34 pm
Wings Maybe it's because the Impressionist images are somewhat more abstract? XD Interesting story to know, thank you. ^^ Which Liszt piece was he working on that caused the injury? And you can perhaps try an Etude from Debussy instead? Or will they be too difficult? I think it was the one movement sonata, but I'm not sure. I'll have to read up upon it again. Problem is, etudes have their own section, and that's already filled by a Scriabin etude and a Loeschhorn etude.
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:54 pm
Ah, that's right. It's been a while since I've done any exams...nearly forgot about that. XD
If you're doing one Scriabin for etudes though, then maybe it's a better idea to put an Impressionist piece in your repertoire selections. If not Debussy, how about Ravel? I loved to play his Menuet from Le Tombeau de Couperin back then. ^^
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:01 pm
Ravel...I'll see. I did like to listen to his Gaspard de la nuit at least(although that's waaaay out of my reach as of now, obviously)...
Okay, checked the guitar version, it sounds nice, but still not my type...
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:39 pm
Check out the rest of the suite too, lol. And you should definitely hear the orchestrated version--it's gooooorgeous. <3
Or his other piano works XD There's Jeux d'eau, Sonatine and Valses nobles et sentimentales...and yes, Miroirs. Miroirs is quite difficult though...not as much as Gaspard de la nuit, but still. >_<
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:12 pm
If I'm not mistaken, I think I heard like 2 other parts of the suite on the radio quite a few times, orchestrated version, yeah. I've heard Jeux d'eau before, it feels really serene to listen to. I'll take a look at the valses soon.
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