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 Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:32 pm
This is from the main Forum, since I can't post there (of course). ryokomayuka I don't know if anyone has made a thread about this before but why do some prochoicers compare car accidents to getting pregnant? In my observation, this analogy is made as a response (sometimes a copy and pasted quoted response) to the argument that pregnancy is the consequence of having sex, and so abortion should not be an option. The idea is to show that just because an action caused something unfortunate to happen, it cannot be claimed that nothing should be done to remedy the situation. Of course, unintentional pregnancy and car accidents really don't have much else in common (other than that they are unfortunate things brought about by pleasant actions).
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:55 pm
I've heard that argument before, but I mean, one could say that biologically we have sex to reproduce. I mean, we take certain precautions to not reproduce, but sex is the result of our need to reproduce. That's a known fact.
Car accidents aren't...yeah. It's a little retarded to argue this comparison. Not to say you're retarded, Watersmoon, but you know. That crow won't caw.
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:40 pm
Erasmas I've heard that argument before, but I mean, one could say that biologically we have sex to reproduce. I mean, we take certain precautions to not reproduce, but sex is the result of our need to reproduce. That's a known fact. Car accidents aren't...yeah. It's a little retarded to argue this comparison. Not to say you're retarded, Watersmoon, but you know. That crow won't caw. Reproduction could be the result of our need for sex and the closeness it brings.
The known fact is not that sex is the result of a need to reproduce, because there are plenty of people who have no interest in reproducing or are even phobic of reproducing who still have sex.
The known fact is that sex can result in reproduction.
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:42 pm
Biologically, it is. Like I've said, you can't will yourself to be or not be pregnant. But you're right, sex can result in reproduction.
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:12 pm
Erasmas Biologically, it is. Like I've said, you can't will yourself to be or not be pregnant. But you're right, sex can result in reproduction. Do you mean biologically sex only exists for reproductive purposes? Because that can cause a huge debate. Sex does not result exclusively in reproduction, and there are a plethora of other reasons and biological benefits why one would engage in sexual activities.
Maybe back in the days before man developed tools and such, sex only existed for reproductive purposes. But that is not the case now.
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:11 pm
You're right, that's a good point. Sex does more than foster reproduction. It can give you a special sense of closeness to your mate that you can't get any other way. It can just plain feel awesome. It can do other things...
But like you said, sex only existed in reproductive purposes originally. Cars are very different. Few people have gotten into their cars hoping to cause an accident, or bough a car so they can get into an accident with it. When people first drove cars, it wasn't so they could get into accidents.
There is no situation that relates to pregnancy, which makes it really hard to find a good one, and as situations go, the car one isn't very bad.
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:43 pm
Tyshia2 Erasmas Biologically, it is. Like I've said, you can't will yourself to be or not be pregnant. But you're right, sex can result in reproduction. Do you mean biologically sex only exists for reproductive purposes? Because that can cause a huge debate. Sex does not result exclusively in reproduction, and there are a plethora of other reasons and biological benefits why one would engage in sexual activities.
Maybe back in the days before man developed tools and such, sex only existed for reproductive purposes. But that is not the case now. No, I'm saying the way our bodies react during sex is for reproductive purposes. Of course there are peripheral reasons we have sex, but that doesn't mean the whole reproductive argument gets thrown out the window. And just because our ingenuity has allowed us to enjoy sex for its physical properties doesn't mean our bodies act any differently than they did before man developed tools and such.
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:34 am
Erasmas Tyshia2 Erasmas Biologically, it is. Like I've said, you can't will yourself to be or not be pregnant. But you're right, sex can result in reproduction. Do you mean biologically sex only exists for reproductive purposes? Because that can cause a huge debate. Sex does not result exclusively in reproduction, and there are a plethora of other reasons and biological benefits why one would engage in sexual activities.
Maybe back in the days before man developed tools and such, sex only existed for reproductive purposes. But that is not the case now. No, I'm saying the way our bodies react during sex is for reproductive purposes. Of course there are peripheral reasons we have sex, but that doesn't mean the whole reproductive argument gets thrown out the window. And just because our ingenuity has allowed us to enjoy sex for its physical properties doesn't mean our bodies act any differently than they did before man developed tools and such. Alright, I was a little confused earlier. Sorry.
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:53 am
lymelady There is no situation that relates to pregnancy, which makes it really hard to find a good one, and as situations go, the car one isn't very bad. Only when speaking of how enjoyably activities can lead to unintended consequences. The violinist-kidney analogy is also not too bad, when talking about ownership of one's body versus the life of another (though it doesn't address the whole "pregnancy doesn't happen without sex" part of the issue). Yeah, the main probably is that there really isn't anything that is the same as pregnancy. Pregnancy is a very special case, which is why laws pertaining to it (abortion and fetal homicide laws - and I think that some states might have child abuse laws that pertain to, like doing drugs during pregnancy and stuff) are so convoluted.
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:00 am
Actually, I can think of a way- Say a guy decides to get a car soley to drive very fast on windy roads. A muscle-car or race-car or whatever, maybe midlife crisis, whatever. Now, this is soley for pleasure, not to get anywhere, just to do something fun. Now, if he crashes (Pregnancy), he harms another person and one person could even die from his mistake. Now, let's put it this way- is driving fast, for pleasure, a viable excuse for hurting or killing another person?
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:08 pm
divineseraph Actually, I can think of a way- Say a guy decides to get a car soley to drive very fast on windy roads. A muscle-car or race-car or whatever, maybe midlife crisis, whatever. Now, this is soley for pleasure, not to get anywhere, just to do something fun. Now, if he crashes (Pregnancy), he harms another person and one person could even die from his mistake. Now, let's put it this way- is driving fast, for pleasure, a viable excuse for hurting or killing another person? But sex isn't the problem. Pregnancy is what people wish to avoid, yes. But teaching safer sex practices (or driving at a reasonable speed) greatly reduce the risk. However, just like most people speed, most people eventually have sex (even people who abstain until marriage still have sex within marriage). The issue is to convince people to not abort the pregnancy (I don't know of a comparison in your analogy, or almost any analogy), not to convince people not to have sex to begin with.
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:56 pm
This is true, but more care during sex leads to less unwanted pregnancy and thus less abortion.
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:06 pm
divineseraph This is true, but more care during sex leads to less unwanted pregnancy and thus less abortion. Very true, just like more car while driving leads to fewer traffic accidents. So the two things are somewhat comparable in that way also. But not in most ways. Nothing else is like pregnancy. Any analogy is going to be faulty in some way, which is why it is important to point out that pregnancy and the other activity in question are only similar in a very specific way.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:39 pm
The only think that car accidents and unwanted pregnancy have in common is that sometimes bad things or things that are unplanned happen in life. Sometimes people get hit while walking across street or choke on something they were eating,ect...part of life is taking risks yet trying to be prepared for them if possible and not be careless.
Thought I dislike it when people compare car accidents to abortion since it is two different situations that are completely opposit.
In one situation (abortion); death is planned (or at least the death of the fetus is), in car accidents death is unplanned and they try all they can to save a life if the person is in serious condition.
And sex orignally was mainly use for reproduction so the human population wouldn't die off, which is why sex offten results in pregnancy.
Of course sex can be more then just reproduction, like to express love for someone and to feel close and their are people that don't want a child/children but that is why people created condoms (though orignally created to prevent HIV),birth control,ect...to help prevent it.
But if the the main purpose of sex wasn't orignally for reproduction, then those things (protection,contraceptin)wouldn't be needed in the first place.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:59 pm
sachiko_sohma And sex orignally was mainly use for reproduction so the human population wouldn't die off, which is why sex offten results in pregnancy. Humans have never consciously used sex only for reproduction. In mammals where sex is only used for reproduction, females come into heat, usually just once a year. However, humans don't ever come into heat. We have (consensual) sex whenever we feel like doing so, usually for pleasure. Sex is probably so pleasurable for reproductive evolutionary reasons, though. The main benefit from sex the way that humans have it (in my opinion) is the pair bonding, which would have greatly increased the chances of offspring surviving to breed the next generation. Human reproduction is, rather obviously, intended to slowly keep a stable population. Not to keep a species from dying out. We usually have only one child at a time, and often have children years apart. A species that needed to keep numbers up would have litters. And our children take years of care to be self sufficient, not something seen in species that rely on lots of reproduction to keep numbers from dwindling. In fact, one of the main problem the people are having is overpopulation. Even though we reproduce slowly, there are far too many humans (due to the lack of predators or most other forms of natural population control seen in nature). Anyway, that was wildly offtopic.
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