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tetrasmaster
Captain

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:20 pm


I've seen a lot of things said about Tifa and Cloti that AREN'T true at all, and I thought I'd post them.

List some totally BIZARRE things you've heard, by Cleris/Aeris rabids, Tifa haters, or Cloti haters. I'd love to laugh at them with you.


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they are the "couple" of ff7, she is idealized(she is beauty,innocent,sweet and special[she's last Cetra], like a queen who loves flowers, and he is the "soldier"who look after her, he is rude,quiet until he meet her, and then she's loves him so much that she gave her life for him.
my opinion is this story is pure art. Andif he was in love with Tifa, the story was very simple withouth magic, Tifa is for me too vulgar. A fantastic story like final fantasy VII needs a fantastic love story symbolized by Cloud and Aerith.


*First of all , I'd rather have something be "simple" than Cliche, like CloudXAeris. Also, I don't think it would be so simple. Tifa is struggling to tell Cloud her feelings, and they are both developing as characters. Just because Tifa isn't some ancient "sweet and special" Godsend, doesn't make her a BORING character. Also, Tifa is very beautiful and very sweet and to me, very special. Despite what you SAY about Aeris, I don't see her as innocent, and never have. Cloud didn't CHANGE his personality after he met Aeris. In fact, according to the game, you can choose whether to warm up to her or not, which leaves your reasoning invalid. :/ I don't see how Tifa is vulgar. And even if she were, at least she isn't vain and flirtatious.

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The default character for the Gold Saucer date is Aerith. The lowest her affection score can be is 24, while Tifa's can drop all the way to zero.


*This doesn't prove anything. I think that Aeris might be the default, because she is the one who kept asking Cloud for a date. Anyway, this is an optional scene that only shows how much Aeris DOESN'T know Cloud. Cleris points how? :/

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1) Have u seen how s*l*u*t*y (pardon my french) she looks when u search her on google?


*FANART people, it's FANART. People who draw her that way are perverted guys. Tifa is a very attractive girl, and guys are sick. NOT official pictures.

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--Speaking about dressing less - about Tifa - this is really funny - it said Tifa has the tendancy to dress in revealing clothing. We all knew this but most people like to say that it's not her fault, but her horny creator's design. I guess what they're trying to say is, she actually likes this way of dressing. It was given to her as apart of her personality, and is just as valid as Cloud's being quite and angsty and Aerith being bubbly. Aside from that, apparantly as the guidebook pointed out, Tifa, though liking skanky outfits, wasn't comfortable running ahead of everyone while infiltrating Shinra building (embarassed about letting the guys see her undies).


*Yes, it said this and IT said that, but what is this "IT"? That's right, you can't even muster up the proof that states all of this babble that you're speaking about. Obviously, Tifa does like to dress the way she does, if she didn't, why would she wear it? In my personal opinion, I don't think what she wears is skanky at all. What's wrong with a tanktop and a miniskirt? A lot of girls wear this --- and aside from that outfit, look at her outfit in Advent Children. Is that her "tendancy" of dressing "skanky"? Because her outfit in advent children is a lot LESS revealing, and she no longer wears a skirt. I think she wears what she likes, with no way, shape or form, trying to "reveal" herself physically. So you're saying Cloud's personality is angsty, Aeris' is bubbly and Tifa's is skanky? NO. That's completely wrong. I'd say Tifa's personality is... perhaps another word for keeping things inside? I want to say introspective, but that's not quite it, that's going too far. Tifa does not flaunt herself. It's not her fault that her outfit compliments the beauty she's always had.


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For me, Aerith seems to make Cloud happy. Cloud never shows happiness around Tifa. It always seemed to me that Tifa was asking Cloud for help, or whining about their past in Nibelheim, etc. Aerith showed interest in Cloud and wanted to have fun with him. They had adventures together and shared ideas with one another. Tifa's attitude seemed more like, "What should we do now, Cloud?!?" Cloud just seemed to enjoy himself with Aerith, whereas he always had to confront past and current problems with Tifa. With Tifa, it's always an "issue" that she wants Cloud to deal with.


*How does Cloud never show happiness around Tifa? He does, a lot! If he wasn't happy around Tifa, he wouldn't of gone out of his way for her, he wouldn't of promised her things, and he wouldn't of decided to stay with her in Advent Children. Tifa wasn't whining, and she never asked Cloud for help. She could fend for herself, it was in their childhood that she wanted Cloud to come for her whenever she was in trouble. Which is a very sweet thing to ask. What's wrong with bringing up the past, especially if it was valid, or just plain in the subject? Cloud likes to revisit the past HIMSELF without her bringing it up many times. Cloud didn't have any issues with Aeris, because he didn't know her, and she didn't know him. Cloud was able to just be himself around both Tifa and Aeris, because he trusted and enjoyed time with BOTH of them. He jokes around with both Aeris and Tifa, and went out of his way for both Aeris AND Tifa. It's really self-centered of you to be one sided and be in such denial. :/ I just think that Cloud is himself MOSTLY around Tifa, and MOSTLY open with Tifa. (Especially since Aeris and Cloud were just starting to get to know one another.)

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Tifa was always trying to delve into why Cloud was doing things, why didn't he remember, why is he giving the Black Materia to Sephiroth, etc., etc. Tifa continues doing that even now, in AC - why won't you fight, why are you lamenting, why aren't you listening to me, why are you running, etc. etc. Aerith would just smile, enjoy being with Cloud, offer him support and encouragement, and have a good time with him.


*Okay, Tifa asks "why" because she cares about him. About delving, Aeris was the one who did a lot of the prying. Both Aeris and Tifa ask "why" because they care about him. Now, doesn't that make perfect sense? Does to me. HELL, I'd ask why he was giving the black materia to Sephiroth too! What, am I just supposed to smile and say, "Yeah, way to go Cloud! You give that black materia to Sephiroth so he can rule the world! Good job, pal!" No, I think not. Tifa NEVER asked Cloud why he was lamenting, in fact she was one of the main contributers to helping him MOVE ON. She is the one by his side, encouraging him to do so, saying that he's lingering too long on something that is in fact, nothing. Tifa in Advent Children says "Dilly Dally Shilly Shally" (translated into different things in a ton of dif. versions) to make Cloud realize, he has nothing to be worried about. He DOES realize this because of HER. Tifa would also offer support and encouragement, and they also enjoyed their time together! Name a time when they didn't! Not to mention, that Cloud appreciates what Tifa does for him. It's OBVIOUS.

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I saw Tifa's relationship with Cloud as being tedious, boring, and filled with tension. Cloud and Aerith's relationship was interesting, exciting, and adventuresome. I also saw a lot of caring, devotion, and understanding between them. I saw no special chemistry between Cloud and Tifa, but I saw lots of special chemistry happening between Aerith and Cloud. I also don't think Cloud and Tifa look good together at all. Cloud's love for Aerith was very obvious to me, too. I didn't see Cloud showing ANY romantic interest toward Tifa, however. Tifa showed romantic interest in Cloud, but I didn't see Cloud reciprocating it.


*First of all, Cloud and Aeris so called realationship, is cliche, boring, and just too farfetched. Cloud and Tifa have a history of memories, a history of moments that only continue to develop. Cloud and Aeris met, by "fate" so you claim, and slowly start to fall in love. Considering Aeris always doubted who she really "saw" when she was with Cloud, the first half of what she felt until after Cloud's subconsious, could be considered complete B/S. Tifa never doubted Cloud. Aeris showed that she liked Cloud romantically as well, but he didn't necessarily show his feelings back to her, either. I think he showed some feelings back to both of them, but I believe to Tifa moreso. You say all these things, but you can't name specific moments in the game.
I wonder why that is?

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I've gotta admit, my main reason is how happy Aeris makes him. She knows just what to say, and just how to say it to make him smile.


*In FFVII, when did Cloud smile for her? Helllooo. The only time he supposedly "smiled" at her, was at the end of Advent Children. Which I believe, he was smiling to know that both Aeris AND Zack were safe, and never blamed him, and that he was finally moving on, therefore causing him to smile.
Cloud smiles at Tifa directly, truly smiles, in Last Order. In Advent Children he smiles at her at the end too, although they don't make a big deal out of it as they do for when he smiles at Aeris and Zack. They make a big deal out of the ending smile, because it symbolizes that Cloud is happy that everything is "okay now".

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1.- Aerith makes a happy Cloud, The only time he laughed was with Aerith.

*Whoopee. He laughed with Tifa as well.

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2.- Who better than a mother to know what kind of woman he son need!!!

*Say what? O_O I believe Cloud's Mom mentioned that he needed a girlfriend, preferably an older woman--- which Aeris is. However, I believe that Cloud had said "Not interested", when his Mother made this statement.

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3.- They understand each other, Cloud always felt he was different because nobody wants to plat with him (poor Cloud sad.gif ) and Aerith is the only survivor of the Cetra, so she understand him very well

*Aeris is the last Cetra, and that means she automatically knows Cloud? Lmao, might I remind you that she's the one who doubted who he really was in the first place? He was different because no-one wanted to "plat" with him? :O Did you mean plot, or play? Either way, what relevence does that even have to you making your point, which I am starting to believe is non-exsistent? HOW do Aeris and Cloud understand eachother? No-one can ever tell me HOW.

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4.- Aeris is his light!!!

*No she isn't! :'D

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5.- The knew each other for a short time, but the chemistry betwwen them is like they were really childhood friends!! (oh the irony!)

*The chemistry between them in the beginning was um something I like to call "small talk". That's what HAPPENS when you first meet someone.
Depending on how YOU as the player treat Aeris, he could be nice or mean to her. So, you are once again, presenting invalid proof! Also, even if you are the sweetest to Aeris, I wouldn't call trying to sneak out of her house to leave her behind--- chemistry.

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6.- She know what to said when Cloud is miss

*WTF, THE ILLITERACY! IT BURNS!

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7.- He want to see her again!! And when he was "hugging" Tifa (take that clotis!!!)

*He went to see Tifa again too. Doesn't hugging Tifa support what us "Clotis" are all for? O_O; Oh.. um.. you got us good.. *cough*

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8.- Aeris WILL be ALWAYS in Cloud heart!

*So will Tifa, and everyone else he cares about.

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9.- Maybe the fate separeted them, but still they can be together!

*Not saying they can't, I'm just saying I don't think they'd be together as a pair. Because there is slim to no valid proof, as you have showed.

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10.- They are perfect together

* Nope :3

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Cloud just needs someone optimistic (No Tifa is NOT optimistic regardless of what her character description says). Tifa has the type of personality where they would be both like, "Ok, so what do we do?" when it comes to a real relationship with them. Tifa needs someone to lean on and support her. Cloud can't offer that type of love. Aerith is perfect for Cloud simply because she is independant and she can lift Cloud's spirits where Tifa wouldn't know what to do to help him.


*Her character description is what the creators themselves made, so it obviously pertains to her attitude. Tifa is very optimistic, she's just not OVERLY bright like Aeris is. And, how would you know what Tifa needs and doesn't need? Are you her character designer? I didn't think so. Let's say she did need someone to lean on, well that's what love is about. Aeris would need someone to lean on too. If you think that Cloud can't offer that type of love to Tifa, he can't offer in turn, that same type of love to Aeris either. I think Cloud could support either one of them, so I'm not sure what you mean. Tifa is a lot more independant than Aeris, in fact, I'd say that Aeris is more DEPENDANT than anything. She depends on Cloud to help her, whereas Tifa can fight for herself. Aeris and Tifa both lift Cloud's spirits. Tifa and Cloud have similiar personalities, which allow them to understand one another more and more with each interaction.

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I think the main reason that Aerith is better for Cloud than Tifa is because with Aerith, Cloud can be himself. He doesn't have to worry that he's not living up to her expectations. By not getting into SOLDIER, Cloud felt he let Tifa down, and throughout the game Tifa is always being disappointed by him. I think that their relationship would be really unhealthy - Cloud always felt that he couldn't live up to Tifa's expectations ("I could never live up to being Cloud...") and Tifa spent most of the game worrying herself to death about him, but not brave enough to tell him why she was worried. Tifa needs someone she can lean on, who she can rely on when things are difficult, someone who'll tell her things will be okay. Cloud needs someone strong emotionally, someone who's optimistic and will be able to stop him from becoming withdrawn and who he can depend on to cheer him up when things are difficult for him. See the problem with CloTi?


*Tifa never asked Cloud to live up to her "expectations", Cloud is the one who wanted to do that himself. The fact that Cloud wanted to go out of his way for someone, shows how much he cares about that person to want to be good enough for them, not that Tifa ever thought he was less of a person. Cloud was always the one who thought he wasn't good enough for Tifa, Tifa never said once that he wasn't good enough for her. It shows A LOT that Cloud wanted to be something for Tifa. He wanted to be able to protect her. How is Tifa constantly being dissapointed by him? Cloud is the only one who thinks that. Tifa doesn't ever say or act like she's dissapointed in him, in fact, she only seems to love him MORE throughout the game. Tifa couldn't tell Cloud, because she didn't want to ruin what they had, she didn't want to lose him, she was afraid of what would happen. She was merely considering his feelings whereas Aeris was more forceful and akward. She flirted with Cloud all of the time, even when Tifa was there, whereas Tifa let Cloud make his own decisions about what he wanted to say or do with or for her. Tifa and Cloud both hide their emotions, and are both pretty shy people when it comes to romantic feelings. Or, feelings in general. I think that means that in turn, they could definitely understand what the other is going through. Tifa does help Cloud from being "withdrawn". So does Aeris.
There's not a thing wrong with Cloti biggrin

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Aerith is the one Cloud can rely on to cheer him up, someone he can be himself around and who doesn't place him on a pedastal like Tifa does. When Cloud tried to act the tough hero, Aerith wouldn't let him. She wouldn't let him make her go home, she outsmarted him when he tried to leave for Wall Market without her, she wouldn't allow him to treat her like a damsel in distress. She took charge during the Wall Market sidequest and bossed him around instead of letting him tell her what to do! laugh.gif Aerith is the only girl who got Cloud to open up and drop the tough facade for a while. That's why she's the best choice for him.


*Tifa never placed Cloud on a pedestal, explain how you came to that conclusion? Heh, Aeris wouldn't let Cloud do a lot of things now that you mention it, like think for himself? It seemed like she was very forceful and prying when she did the things that she did. The "tough" facade? I don't understand. :/ That's who Cloud is. And Tifa let him be who he was.

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dea of Cloud with Tifa because I think their relationship wouldn't work out between the two of them, considering their attitudes towards themselves and the others, and also looking at their zodiac signs. They wouldn't really be compatible perfectly in love but the relationship could work out as something like a fling or a one-night stand (oh my gawd... that would suck...)... but when it comes to Cloud and Aerith, it's perfect for love and in the bedroom (uhh... forgive me, I'm using astrology. dry.gif )... Eheh...


*Astrology is 100% invalid. FAIL.

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It's something really stronger than the "love" that I've seen in TidusxYuna and SquallxRinoa.


*First of all, being that Cloud never states he loves Aeris, hugs or kisses her, or confesses that he's madly in love with Aeris, I don't see how Cleris is a stronger "love" than those other two pairings you've mentioned. If you are comparing the fact that Cleris and Squinoa are completely random, then yes, you're right.

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In Tifa's case, if I was Cloud, why would I even trust that girl if she already lied to me about my past just so that she could get what she wants out of me? I would trust her again, but not the same way that I must've done before. And Tifa's another person who doesn't really open up too much to other people in terms of sharing her deepest emotions about another person. She couldn't even admit properly to Cloud that she liked him. Where would their relationship head to if they're both too quiet about their own feelings for each other, just in case they do get together?! It would go nowhere because nobody knows how to communicate with one another about their feelings; while I think that a good and lasting relationship should have a free-flowing relationship built on love, faith and trust between the two people involved in it.


*She didn't do it to just get what she wanted out of Cloud >:O What a horrible assumption! You could tell in the game that Tifa felt TERRIBLE about lying to Cloud! She had this huge secret about him that could change his and her life possibly forever! It could of changed what they had forever. She didn't want to risk losing that, and I would hesitate to tell him if I was her too! She finally realized that the right thing to do was to tell him, and it took her a lot of courage to do so, which is understandable. Cloud and Tifa are the same in the aspect that they don't like to share their emotions. I don't believe in the opposites attract nonsense, I'm more for the more you have in common, the deeper in love you fall. We all have different views.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:58 pm


The first thing that comes to mind for that is: learn to type properly, and then we'll talk. Second, I love Tifa, no matter how she acts or dresses. Tifa isn't perfect, and that's what makes her a great character. Her motivation was her vandetta against ShinRa for taking away all that she held dear, even Cloud, and she knew it was wrong of her. And even if she hated ShinRa that much, she's still a great person, and if Advent Children is any indication, a great mom. And guess what? Tifa starts to be okay with ShinRa, seeing as at no point in Advent Children did she make an attempt to ******** up Reno or Rude, even when they were in her children's room.

I also have to say that Cloud was probably so close with Aerith because at the time, he had been royally ******** and was under the illusion that he was Zack. And who was Zack? Aerith's boyfriend.

And about that ********. Even though his memories were scrambled like eggs on Sunday morning, he remembered his days with Tifa. Now, I acknowledge that maybe Tifa wasn't the nicest to him as kids, but she didn't try to kick his a** either. And then they became great friends. So, hey Cleris fans, GO SUCK ON THE POINTY END OF MASAMUNE, like Aerith did. domokun

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Truthiness3x4
Vice Captain
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:04 pm


Good points, Lunar.

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The default character for the Gold Saucer date is Aerith. The lowest her affection score can be is 24, while Tifa's can drop all the way to zero.



*This doesn't prove anything. I think that Aeris might be the default, because she is the one who kept asking Cloud for a date. Anyway, this is an optional scene that only shows how much Aeris DOESN'T know Cloud. Cleris points how? :/


Aeris's score can't drop to zero because it is important Cloud has some affection for her before she dies, if he didn't then the death scene wouldn't have had the dramatic effect the creators were going for.

Though my absolute favorite is:


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But Cait Sith's prediction!!!


Because we all know Reeve, (that beautiful excuse of a man) ShinRa employee is IN FACT A PSYCHIC!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:18 pm


Kefka-Daisuki-Desu!
Good points, Lunar.

Quote:
Quote:
The default character for the Gold Saucer date is Aerith. The lowest her affection score can be is 24, while Tifa's can drop all the way to zero.



*This doesn't prove anything. I think that Aeris might be the default, because she is the one who kept asking Cloud for a date. Anyway, this is an optional scene that only shows how much Aeris DOESN'T know Cloud. Cleris points how? :/


Aeris's score can't drop to zero because it is important Cloud has some affection for her before she dies, if he didn't then the death scene wouldn't have had the dramatic effect the creators were going for.

Though my absolute favorite is:


Quote:
But Cait Sith's prediction!!!


Because we all know Reeve, (that beautiful excuse of a man) ShinRa employee is IN FACT A PSYCHIC!


Plus, if you read the booklet thingie that comes with the game, it says that his predictions are usually never right. x]

tetrasmaster
Captain


Sara Hysaro

Precious Seeker

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:01 pm


Random thoughts: Cloud's mom creeped me out the first time I played through the game! I felt like she was coming on to him or something:

"You look so handsome"- Okay, not so bad. Mothers tell their kids that they look great all the time.

"You should get an older girlfriend, one that will take care of you."- Whoa! I misinterpreted that to begin with. Still, the meaning of that statement is a little clear: she wants him to go out with someone who will mommy him. xp

Okay, my random thoughts are over! blaugh

Anyway, if anyone was thinking that Aeris is perfect then you should get your head examined. She has faults like everybody else. She seems to come across (to me) as the kind of girl who wants everything to go her way. My way or the highway! Okay, maybe not that extreme. sweatdrop

Sometimes she can be a little rude too. I'm remembering how she acted toward Barret in the first visit to Gold Saucer. Barret really didn't need that. Sure, he got over it in the end, but I think she could've been a bit nicer (it's okay if any of you disagree).
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:14 pm


Speaking of Aeris being rude, when Cloud and the others save her from Hojo's test tube, she only thanks Cloud.

: X

I still am kinda upset about that... xD

tetrasmaster
Captain


Twindream
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:59 pm


That is her major flaw. She can be quite self-centered, rude, and a bit like a teenage prep, having her eyes on the prize. rolleyes Tifa on the other hand cares about everybody on an equal level. (Of course Cloud holds a special place in her heart.) True...everyone has flaws....but Aeris' flaws was the reason why I hated her. When Tifa made a mistake, she went back to fix it. Though a little late, she knew she HAD to do something. Aeris' bubbly nature makes her seem naive....especially to everything around her. She's more focused on Cloud and not really giving much thought to the situation at hand. *Sighs* Buuuut, I do respect and like Aeris on another level. Alas, she has many haters still.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:01 pm


I don't actually hate Aeris, though I do get annoyed with her comments and actions sometimes. I relate more to Tifa, most likely because I share some of her faults to a point. Ohter people relate to Aeris because they have some her flaws to a point.

That's probably one of the reasons why Tifa and Aeris are so different: it would allow a wide range of people to relate to and feel for at least one of the main characters.

Sara Hysaro

Precious Seeker


Twindream
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:48 pm


Mmhmm, that's really true. Unfortunately, people are blind to this and end up flaming the two girls with "YES, THE b***h IS DEAD" and "TIFA IS A SLUT!" It never ends. confused I remember when my sister was just expressing her opinion for Cloti (she's a Cloti supporter too, but not as passionately as I do) and immediately all of the Cleris fans flamed her! eek My poor baby sister....and she just turned 13 too. cry And she's like, "what's your problem? I was just telling my opinion! I'm going to leave now!"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:52 pm


It takes a lot for me to absolutely hate a character. I don't think I've loathed any video game character to this date. Not even Seymour. He's annoying, but I don't hate him.

I guess people need to learn to be more tolerant of opinions that differ from their own.

Sara Hysaro

Precious Seeker


Twindream
Crew

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:26 pm


Wow...you have amazing tolerance! eek I HATE Seymour with a passion. sweatdrop It's hard to NOT hate him. whee
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:14 pm


Woah a rabid clerith. O__O weird. That person really...wow. Dumb xd

...on a random note. I dont hate seymour, he's not really that hateable I think. I just think he's ugly. xD

.[.pink.spider.].


Twindream
Crew

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:43 pm


Heh, there's a lot more rabid Cleris than you really think Pink. xd It's mostly the incoming generation that rabid fans increase because of stupidity and intolerance. rolleyes America is becoming more and more stupid. Just watch.....in the next few years, people won't remember the first president of the U.S. (Okay, exaggeration, but most people don't even know the second president. xd )
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:28 am


Wait...it's John Adam's right? xD

.[.pink.spider.].


Twindream
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:51 am


.[.pink.spider.].
Wait...it's John Adam's right? xD


Yup. xd Yay, Pink's not one of them. xd
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