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 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:52 am
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:41 pm
So miscarriages are now considered manslaughter? Wow. eek
By the way, I think bonobos also have sex for pleasure. *random fact*
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:47 pm
Reinna Astarel So miscarriages are now considered manslaughter? Wow. eek By the way, I think bonobos also have sex for pleasure. *random fact* A miscarriage is like a natural death sweatdrop
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:06 am
My Conscience Reinna Astarel So miscarriages are now considered manslaughter? Wow. eek By the way, I think bonobos also have sex for pleasure. *random fact* A miscarriage is like a natural death sweatdrop Not if it was caused by the woman smoking, drinking, taking drugs. Right then, I'm not in America, my countries law states other wise...but anyway... Quote: "a member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb," Where does it say child? ((give a link to the site/newsreport so we can read it all please)) Quote: It is not legal to kill a child. Therefore, it is not legal to kill a fetus. It is not legal to punish an adult by smacking them. But it is legal to punish a child by smacking them. ((I believe American's say spanking...)) Children, adults, foetii and OAP's have differnt rights. Quote: Why is it that in the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, someone would get charged for double murder if someone was pregnant and they killed them and the unborn child died. I do not know the exact wording of this act. However, I'm gonna hgazard a couple of guesses. 1) I thought it was manslaughter... 2) Murder has to have malicious intent. Women, for the most part, do not feel malicious intent against the foetus. Quote: The fetus is sometimes perfectly viable when some women get abortions. This is tripe. The lowest possible time of viability is 24 weeks, and that is uncommon and only possible with life support. It cannot survive on its own. No elective abortions occure after this time. Quote: Why is it necessary to have sex when you are not ready for a child? Some people NEVER want children, will never be ready for children. You are telling a happily married couple to never have sex, yes? Quote: "I want the pleasure of sex, but I don't want to accept the repercussions of my actions." Abortion is acceptiong the repercussions and consequences, it's one choice in many. What about, "I want to have a normal sex life with my partner of 5 years." NOt just kiddy sluts get abortions. Quote: Sex is meant to be only for reproduction not for pleasure. Humans and Dolphins are the only animals that have sex for pleasure. Sex isn t meant to be for pleasure. Just like when you eat food. It isn t so you can tingle your taste buds. It is so you can stay alive. More tripe. Sex produces hormonal responses which make us feel good and closer to our partner. Sex has been for pleasure since humans first realized it felt good. There is a big long list of animals that "mate" when there is no possibility of conception. Humans Dolphins Certain apes and monkeys Rats Badgers That's just off the top of my head. Moniquill has the list. As for eating, sex is not eating. The only comparrison you can draw is with eating chocolate. One final note. I was discussing pregnancy with some friends and realized I found the thought of being pregnant absolutely disgusting. I have no maternal instinct at all. Just the idea of having something growing inside me, using my organs, abusing my body makes me feel sick. Yet I desire sex. Why is this, if sex for reproduction only. I'm probably not even capable of carrying to term, even my body thinks a foetus is an attcking invader. Yet I crave sex with my partner. Why is this if I cannot carry full term? Why do pregnant women get "horny"? They cannot possibly concieve again. Why do infertile people want sex? Why do gay couple desire sex if it is only for reproduction? Why do people masturbate? You cannot breed with yourself. Must dash...work calls
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:53 am
My Conscience Reinna Astarel So miscarriages are now considered manslaughter? Wow. eek By the way, I think bonobos also have sex for pleasure. *random fact* A miscarriage is like a natural death sweatdrop Well, it can be caused by the mother, no? For example, fetuses that die from strangulation from the umbilical cord. It is an accident. But it was done with the mother's body. Isn't that what manslaughter is? Killing a human being on accident. (Could someone clarify this for me? Could the "accident" involved in manslaughter be a "freak of chance" accident...like oh, I fire a nailgun, someone bumps into me, my arm jiggles, nail richochetes off something and hits someone right between the eyes.) xp There are also miscarriages by women who overdose on vitamin C pills, or caffeine. on accident, and miscarry. Would these carry a manslaughter crime as well? Poisoning the fetus? Second degree murder? Some women, if unable to get an abortion, can do these things on purpose to induce miscarriage. Do you accuse them of first degree murder? How do you differentiate them from women who've done those on accident?
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:15 pm
Shard Aerliss My Conscience Reinna Astarel So miscarriages are now considered manslaughter? Wow. eek By the way, I think bonobos also have sex for pleasure. *random fact* A miscarriage is like a natural death sweatdrop Not if it was caused by the woman smoking, drinking, taking drugs. That is still a miscarriage, but second degree murder 3nodding Quote: Quote: "a member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb," ww Where does it say child? ((give a link to the site/newsreport so we can read it all please)) Cbs news a reliable enough source for you? Quote: Quote: It is not legal to kill a child. Therefore, it is not legal to kill a fetus. It is not legal to punish an adult by smacking them. But it is legal to punish a child by smacking them. ((I believe American's say spanking...)) Children, adults, foetii and OAP's have differnt rights. It is illegal to hurt your child sweatdrop If a mother hit her child with a hanger or a belt, the child could call child protective services. If the mother hits her child for no apparent reason or a reason not suitable enough to get spanked, the child could call child protective services. It is also illegal for 2 adults to fight. Quote: Quote: Why is it that in the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, someone would get charged for double murder if someone was pregnant and they killed them and the unborn child died. I do not know the exact wording of this act. However, I'm gonna hgazard a couple of guesses. 1) I thought it was manslaughter... 2) Murder has to have malicious intent. Women, for the most part, do not feel malicious intent against the foetus. Websters dictionary: 1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought That doesn't have to be the case everytime. On the News the mentioned there were random shottings in cars on the freeway. Sometimes murder is done without reason. Therefore, it isn't everytime tha murder is malice. Quote: Quote: The fetus is sometimes perfectly viable when some women get abortions. This is tripe. The lowest possible time of viability is 24 weeks, and that is uncommon and only possible with life support. It cannot survive on its own. No elective abortions occure after this time. The fetus is viable though. It just needs medical attention 3nodding Quote: Quote: Why is it necessary to have sex when you are not ready for a child? Some people NEVER want children, will never be ready for children. You are telling a happily married couple to never have sex, yes? Quote: If someone NEVER wants to have children (which is completely selfish), they can get a female sterilization, male sterilization, or a vasectomy. Quote: Quote: "I want the pleasure of sex, but I don't want to accept the repercussions of my actions." Abortion is acceptiong the repercussions and consequences, it's one choice in many. What about, "I want to have a normal sex life with my partner of 5 years." NOt just kiddy sluts get abortions. Abortion isn't accepting the repercussions sweatdrop Example: You cheat on a test (you have sex). you get caught (sperm gets to the egg). You get dentention (pregnant). You then get your Mom to tell the office you are in therapy for anger issues (abortion). You could have take the detention (given birth) instead you went around the system (abortion). Quote: Quote: Sex is meant to be only for reproduction not for pleasure. Humans and Dolphins are the only animals that have sex for pleasure. Sex isn t meant to be for pleasure. Just like when you eat food. It isn t so you can tingle your taste buds. It is so you can stay alive. More tripe. Sex produces hormonal responses which make us feel good and closer to our partner. Sex has been for pleasure since humans first realized it felt good. There is a big long list of animals that "mate" when there is no possibility of conception. Humans Dolphins Certain apes and monkeys Rats Badgers That's just off the top of my head. Moniquill has the list. As for eating, sex is not eating. The only comparrison you can draw is with eating chocolate. One final note. I was discussing pregnancy with some friends and realized I found the thought of being pregnant absolutely disgusting. I have no maternal instinct at all. Just the idea of having something growing inside me, using my organs, abusing my body makes me feel sick. Yet I desire sex. Why is this, if sex for reproduction only. I'm probably not even capable of carrying to term, even my body thinks a fetus is an attacking invader. Yet I crave sex with my partner. Why is this if I cannot carry full term? Why do pregnant women get "horny"? They cannot possibly conceive again. Why do infertile people want sex? Why do gay couple desire sex if it is only for reproduction? Why do people masturbate? You cannot breed with yourself. Must dash...work calls Okay, all mammals have hormones. Hormones are created and controlled by the endocrine glands. You get a build up of sperm. The endocrine glands send a message to your brain to releave the sperm. You then get sexual thoughts, etc. Sometimes you can control it. This is why guys get errections when they don't think about it. If the sperm is not released, it is released at night when your mind is susceptible. You don�t desire sex. Your mind wants to release some of these hormones. You are sent messages to your brain then your brain trys to releave it. You desire to releave the hormones not to have sex. Masturbation and sex are ways to releave the hormones. This is why people get horny and such. Also, all mammals have hormones. They all react different to releaving them. Monkeys get angry if they don�t releave the sperm. Humans react different than most animals because of our developed brains, we get sent messages to the brain to grave sexual intentions. As I said, you don�t crave sex, you crave the release of the hormones. Proof: If you have sex several times in a row or maybe one time, a lot of sexual thoughts leave your mind.
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:45 pm
However, the "child" is using the woman's body against her will, which is also illegal.
As such, she has a right to remove it. Unfortunately, due to the fact that it is too underdeveloped to survive outside the womb at the time of elective abortions, it dies.
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:41 pm
Chickabiddy However, the "child" is using the woman's body against her will, which is also illegal. As such, she has a right to remove it. Unfortunately, due to the fact that it is too underdeveloped to survive outside the womb at the time of elective abortions, it dies. Therefore it is 2nd degree murder 3nodding It doesn't matter the circumstances of why the child is there. The fact that it is there is what matters. Does the court care if a guy sleeps with his friends girlfriend. The guy's friend then shots him. Do you think the court cares that the girlfriend slept with the guy? NO! They care that the guy shot someone that wasn't self-defence.
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:54 pm
My Conscience Chickabiddy However, the "child" is using the woman's body against her will, which is also illegal. As such, she has a right to remove it. Unfortunately, due to the fact that it is too underdeveloped to survive outside the womb at the time of elective abortions, it dies. Therefore it is 2nd degree murder 3nodding It doesn't matter the circumstances of why the child is there. The fact that it is there is what matters. Does the court care if a guy sleeps with his friends girlfriend. The guy's friend then shots him. Do you think the court cares that the girlfriend slept with the guy? NO! They care that the guy shot someone that wasn't self-defence. But sleeping with someone elses girlfriend isn't against the law. Using someone's body against their will is. She has EVERY RIGHT to remove the fetus.
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:56 am
Chickabiddy My Conscience Chickabiddy However, the "child" is using the woman's body against her will, which is also illegal. As such, she has a right to remove it. Unfortunately, due to the fact that it is too underdeveloped to survive outside the womb at the time of elective abortions, it dies. Therefore it is 2nd degree murder 3nodding It doesn't matter the circumstances of why the child is there. The fact that it is there is what matters. Does the court care if a guy sleeps with his friends girlfriend. The guy's friend then shots him. Do you think the court cares that the girlfriend slept with the guy? NO! They care that the guy shot someone that wasn't self-defence. But sleeping with someone elses girlfriend isn't against the law. Using someone's body against their will is. She has EVERY RIGHT to remove the fetus. You totally missed the point of my post sweatdrop I was saying no matter what happened before the pregnacy doesn matter. What matters is that the fetus is there. If you get an abortion it is 2nd degree murder. What do you think the court will care more about against each other? The use of someones body against there will (which is bull xd ) or 2nd degree murder? 2nd degree murder by far. 46% didn't use birth control when they got pregnant. If the women really didn't want a child then she would have taken higher procausons. Such as ECPs. They prevent 90% of all pregnacy's. With the use of a comdom and ECPs, people shouldn't have to worry about abortions 3nodding
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:46 am
My Conscience You totally missed the point of my post sweatdrop I was saying no matter what happened before the pregnacy doesn matter. What matters is that the fetus is there. If you get an abortion it is 2nd degree murder. What do you think the court will care more about against each other? The use of someones body against there will (which is bull xd ) or 2nd degree murder? 2nd degree murder by far. 46% didn't use birth control when they got pregnant. If the women really didn't want a child then she would have taken higher procausons. Such as ECPs. They prevent 90% of all pregnacy's. With the use of a comdom and ECPs, people shouldn't have to worry about abortions 3nodding You missed the point of my post. She did not consent to the fetus being there. She consented to sex. And thus, the fetus has no right to be there, and since it is breaking a law by being there without her consent, she can remove it at ANY time if she so wishes. Thus, it is not 2nd degree murder, because she has a RIGHT to remove it. Its death is an unfortunate side-effect of removal from the uterus. Again, due the the fact that it is using her against her will (also known as SLAVERY, which is against the CONSTITUTION), she can remove it. Which would the court care more about? A violation of the constitution or a possible violation of simple federal law? Most abortions are performed on women who used birth control, but it failed. Get your facts straight. The Alan Guttmacher Institute 52% of U.S. women obtaining abortions are younger than 25: Women aged 20-24 obtain 33% of all abortions, and teenagers obtain 19%.[5] 54% of women having abortions used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users reported using the methods inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users reported correct use.[11] 8% of women having abortions have never used a method of birth control; nonuse is greatest among those who are young, poor, black, Hispanic or poorly educated.[12] source: http://www.guttmacher.com/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:35 pm
My Conscience 46% didn't use birth control when they got pregnant. If the women really didn't want a child then she would have taken higher procausons. Such as ECPs. They prevent 90% of all pregnacy's. With the use of a comdom and ECPs, people shouldn't have to worry about abortions 3nodding
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:53 pm
MipsyKitten My Conscience 46% didn''t use birth control when they got pregnant. If the women really didn''t want a child then she would have taken higher procausons. Such as ECPs. They prevent 90% of all pregnacy''s. With the use of a comdom and ECPs, people shouldn''t have to worry about abortions 3nodding Why did you only mention the sterilization of males? Why not sterilization of females? sweatdrop Are you feminist or something? It is sexist to say all should be removed from earth >.>
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:09 pm
Chickabiddy My Conscience You totally missed the point of my post sweatdrop I was saying no matter what happened before the pregnacy doesn matter. What matters is that the fetus is there. If you get an abortion it is 2nd degree murder. What do you think the court will care more about against each other? The use of someones body against there will (which is bull xd ) or 2nd degree murder? 2nd degree murder by far. 46% didn't use birth control when they got pregnant. If the women really didn't want a child then she would have taken higher procausons. Such as ECPs. They prevent 90% of all pregnacy's. With the use of a comdom and ECPs, people shouldn't have to worry about abortions 3nodding You missed the point of my post. She did not consent to the fetus being there. She consented to sex. And thus, the fetus has no right to be there, and since it is breaking a law by being there without her consent, she can remove it at ANY time if she so wishes. Thus, it is not 2nd degree murder, because she has a RIGHT to remove it. Its death is an unfortunate side-effect of removal from the uterus. Again, due the the fact that it is using her against her will (also known as SLAVERY, which is against the CONSTITUTION), she can remove it. Which would the court care more about? A violation of the constitution or a possible violation of simple federal law? Consitution of the United States of America; Article XIV. Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. It says person! In 2004 the senate passed a legislation that a fetus is a child. Therefore the fetus is a person. Fetus = child = person. The consitution protects the right to life of EVERY person. The circumstances are invalid 3nodding Chickabiddy Most abortions are performed on women who used birth control, but it failed. Get your facts straight. The Alan Guttmacher Institute 52% of U.S. women obtaining abortions are younger than 25: Women aged 20-24 obtain 33% of all abortions, and teenagers obtain 19%.[5] 54% of women having abortions used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users reported using the methods inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users reported correct use.[11] 8% of women having abortions have never used a method of birth control; nonuse is greatest among those who are young, poor, black, Hispanic or poorly educated.[12] source: http://www.guttmacher.com/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html It may seem kind of mean to say, but get your facts straight sweatdrop How about a study done by the makers of ECP's xp http://www.go2planb.com/ How effective is Plan B? Taken within 72 hours of unprotected intercourse, Plan B can, when used correctly, reduce the risk of pregnancy by 89 percent after a single act of unprotected sex. Effectiveness declines as the interval between intercourse and the start of treatment increases.
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:58 pm
My Conscience Consitution of the United States of America; Article XIV. Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. It says person! In 2004 the senate passed a legislation that a fetus is a child. Therefore the fetus is a person. Fetus = child = person. The consitution protects the right to life of EVERY person. The circumstances are invalid 3nodding Wrong. Slavery, in ANY form, is against the constitution. Thus, the slavery must be ended. The death of the fetus is an unfortunate side-effect of ending the slavery of the woman. Also, the government has yet to declare a fetus a person. You don't see people getting conception certificates, do you? Or death certificates when the fetus dies in utero? No. They get BIRTH certificates, which says that they become people and citizens of the United States at BIRTH. Quote: It may seem kind of mean to say, but get your facts straight sweatdrop How about a study done by the makers of ECP's xp http://www.go2planb.com/ How effective is Plan B? Taken within 72 hours of unprotected intercourse, Plan B can, when used correctly, reduce the risk of pregnancy by 89 percent after a single act of unprotected sex. Effectiveness declines as the interval between intercourse and the start of treatment increases. That has nothing to do with anything. rolleyes I don't care about Plan B. I care about how your statistic was wrong, according to this one: Quote: 8% of women having abortions have never used a method of birth control; nonuse is greatest among those who are young, poor, black, Hispanic or poorly educated.
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