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 Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:39 pm
It's correct name, decided on by the idiot members of the Metal Forum, (no offence to the regs that post here that wasn't directed at you) White Metal (Ie, christian black metal, Unblack Metal) is scored some serious controversy due to Black Metal's origins.
Now, what do you guys think?
My standpoint:
There are some really great Christian Black Metal bands out there. And i am a firm believer in lyrics =/= genre. The ideology that it was founded on though at times makes me wonder. But then I sit down and i listen to Horde, Lengsel, or Devotam and i think these bands are so great, how can someone sit down and say they have no right to do what they do.
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:43 pm
Well, i dont say they have no rite to do it, but its against black metal roots, definitely...
To be honest, I dont even know if I listened to any of these bands, ill have a listen and then ill see... There's something for sure anyway, if they sound like a "true" black metal band, they shouldn't be doing what they do... Christian music should not sound evil nor inspire any kind of darkness.
I'll have a listen
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:15 pm
See to me that's being close-minded, i do not mean to be rude in any way.
What does sounding evil have anything to do with it?
It's music, yes?
The lyrics aren't about Satan, lyrics don't define a genre anyway.
There are Christian Black Metal bands that sing about life in general and fighting their inner self, ect.
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:26 pm
My Hollow See to me that's being close-minded, i do not mean to be rude in any way. What does sounding evil have anything to do with it? It's music, yes? The lyrics aren't about Satan, lyrics don't define a genre anyway. There are Christian Black Metal bands that sing about life in general and fighting their inner self, ect. i don't care so much about if they are Christian. that's a personal decision. but if their lyrics carry a Christian message, it would seem to be anti-Christian to have that message - love for mankind, love for God, being good and righteous, etc - screamed over an evil sounding riff. it just seems to me that if they are going to sing/preach about Christ and his teachings, a more appropriate musical style would be a less angry, less evil sounding approach - more like power or prog metal. and while lyrics do not define a genre, one of the things that defines black metal is that it is dark. the lyrics focus on dark subjects, the artwork is dark, the music sounds evil. Christianity focuses more on light - the saving light of God, to be specific. thus, the focus of Christian music would seem to be anti-black metal. whether the band is Christian or not doesn't really matter, but the whole focus of their songs does, and if the focus is on the saving light of God...that isn't very dark, now, is it?
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:31 pm
My Hollow It's correct name, decided on by the idiot members of the Metal Forum, (no offence to the regs that post here that wasn't directed at you) White Metal (Ie, christian black metal, Unblack Metal) is scored some serious controversy due to Black Metal's origins. Now, what do you guys think? My standpoint: There are some really great Christian Black Metal bands out there. And i am a firm believer in lyrics =/= genre. The ideology that it was founded on though at times makes me wonder. But then I sit down and i listen to Horde, Lengsel, or Devotam and i think these bands are so great, how can someone sit down and say they have no right to do what they do. This word is literally a [/thread] Lengsel is way better than most black metal bands who strictly follow the genre The fact that they have Christians lyrics is in fact entertaining Its quite a change of the usual satan/suicide/kvlt black metal
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:29 am
MegaTherion777 My Hollow See to me that's being close-minded, i do not mean to be rude in any way. What does sounding evil have anything to do with it? It's music, yes? The lyrics aren't about Satan, lyrics don't define a genre anyway. There are Christian Black Metal bands that sing about life in general and fighting their inner self, ect. i don't care so much about if they are Christian. that's a personal decision. but if their lyrics carry a Christian message, it would seem to be anti-christian to have that message - love for mankind, love for God, being good and righteous, etc - screamed over an evil sounding riff. it just seems to me that if they are going to sing/preach about Christ and his teachings, a more appropriate musical style would be a less angry, less evil sounding approach - more like power or prog metal. and while lyrics do not define a genre, one of the things that defines black metal is that it is dark. the lyrics focus on dark subjects, the artwork is dark, the music sounds evil. Christianity focuses more on light - the saving light of God, to be specific. thus, the focus of Christian music would seem to be anti-black metal. whether the band is Christian or not doesn't really matter, but the whole focus of their songs does, and if the focus is on the saving light of God...that isn't very dark, now, is it? So because they believe in God that means that they don't face darkness in their lives? Because hey are Christian does that mean that their lives are always sunshine and butterflies? No, I know first hand this is not so. They may be pursecuted, go through dark times in their life, ect/ But maybe their lyrics eventually have a light at the end of a tunnel. They are simply writing about what they believe. Some of these guys grow up in Norway and Sweden where Black Metal is strongest and they are raised around it and love it. I see nothing wrong in appreciating a genre and wanting to play it as well. They put their lyrical spin on things. I have read some Black Metal lyrics that go with other ideologies and i hear no complaints about them.
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:48 am
My Hollow So because they believe in God that means that they don't face darkness in their lives? Because hey are Christian does that mean that their lives are always sunshine and butterflies? No, I know first hand this is not so. They may be pursecuted, go through dark times in their life, ect/ But maybe their lyrics eventually have a light at the end of a tunnel. They are simply writing about what they believe. Some of these guys grow up in Norway and Sweden where Black Metal is strongest and they are raised around it and love it. I see nothing wrong in appreciating a genre and wanting to play it as well. They put their lyrical spin on things. I have read some Black Metal lyrics that go with other ideologies and i hear no complaints about them. I basically agree with MegaTherion777. You can face darkness, but you do not join it to fight it. After listening to some HUBM, I must say I find it quite contradictory. They sound exactly the same as any other BM band. This means, I might like them as well. But there are some points that make me think HUBM is just not right. Firstly, as you said, the important thing are not the lyrics (I don't completely agree with this, but anyway). These guys are using an imagery and sound created to fight the hypocrisy of Christianism to do exactly the opposite: support it! Does that make any sense? Secondly, a sound gives off emotions and feelings. Black metal (HUBM in this case) is full of negativeness and wickedness. That's against the Christian message. What is the point of having Christian lyrics if the music is telling you a different thing? Finally, I do not see anything wrong in BM bands picking this music to express different ideologies IF these are against Christianism (it'd more accurate to say christianism against them, since the other ideologies existed before it, normally). Now, we could go into a debate about anti-Chrisitanism as satanism, the real root of this is and so on, but that's a different story. In short, a BM band sounds evil because is against Christianism and what this represents (light, hope, salvation, etc). Although this sound is not evil at all in the first place, just natural, primal, animal, wild... It was Christianism that turned these things into evil. Therefore, any ideology non-related, denying, mocking or fighting Christianism could sound like this. Obviously, Christianism is not included... I want to make clear my position here: There are of course good HUBM bands. I could listen to them with no problem because they know how to play. But the whole thing is absurd. Even more than Varg and company...
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:45 am
My Hollow MegaTherion777 My Hollow See to me that's being close-minded, i do not mean to be rude in any way. What does sounding evil have anything to do with it? It's music, yes? The lyrics aren't about Satan, lyrics don't define a genre anyway. There are Christian Black Metal bands that sing about life in general and fighting their inner self, ect. i don't care so much about if they are Christian. that's a personal decision. but if their lyrics carry a Christian message, it would seem to be anti-Christian to have that message - love for mankind, love for God, being good and righteous, etc - screamed over an evil sounding riff. it just seems to me that if they are going to sing/preach about Christ and his teachings, a more appropriate musical style would be a less angry, less evil sounding approach - more like power or prog metal. and while lyrics do not define a genre, one of the things that defines black metal is that it is dark. the lyrics focus on dark subjects, the artwork is dark, the music sounds evil. Christianity focuses more on light - the saving light of God, to be specific. thus, the focus of Christian music would seem to be anti-black metal. whether the band is Christian or not doesn't really matter, but the whole focus of their songs does, and if the focus is on the saving light of God...that isn't very dark, now, is it? So because they believe in God that means that they don't face darkness in their lives? Because hey are Christian does that mean that their lives are always sunshine and butterflies? No, I know first hand this is not so. They may be pursecuted, go through dark times in their life, ect/ But maybe their lyrics eventually have a light at the end of a tunnel. They are simply writing about what they believe. Some of these guys grow up in Norway and Sweden where Black Metal is strongest and they are raised around it and love it. I see nothing wrong in appreciating a genre and wanting to play it as well. They put their lyrical spin on things. I have read some Black Metal lyrics that go with other ideologies and i hear no complaints about them. i think you misinterpreted me. if they are singing about the darkness that they have to deal with in life, fine. but if they are singing about God's saving grace - the message just doesn't fit the atmosphere. and i kinda agree with lomedin - BM arose out of an anti-Christian attitude, and it was the Christian church that called BM evil. lets look at it musically - BM uses a lot of dissonance, to capture how nature and real life are dissonant and dark. it uses techniques such as the Em to Cm chord change (very dissonant) and the tritone (two notes separated by three whole steps). the Church itself called these sounds evil, and in fact, in the middle ages banned the tritone, calling it diabolus in musica - the devil in music - because of its dissonance. when used properly, these chord changes and tritones can very effectively create an interesting atmosphere, and the inherent dissonance can create a nice contrast to the rest of the music. but the Church banned these musical techniques that black metal uses. so wouldn't a BM band, whether they are Christian or not, be UN-Christian if they used these techniques? sorry if i went over your head with the music theory.
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:23 pm
Lomedin My Hollow So because they believe in God that means that they don't face darkness in their lives? Because hey are Christian does that mean that their lives are always sunshine and butterflies? No, I know first hand this is not so. They may be pursecuted, go through dark times in their life, ect/ But maybe their lyrics eventually have a light at the end of a tunnel. They are simply writing about what they believe. Some of these guys grow up in Norway and Sweden where Black Metal is strongest and they are raised around it and love it. I see nothing wrong in appreciating a genre and wanting to play it as well. They put their lyrical spin on things. I have read some Black Metal lyrics that go with other ideologies and i hear no complaints about them. I basically agree with MegaTherion777. You can face darkness, but you do not join it to fight it. After listening to some HUBM, I must say I find it quite contradictory. They sound exactly the same as any other BM band. This means, I might like them as well. But there are some points that make me think HUBM is just not right. Firstly, as you said, the important thing are not the lyrics (I don't completely agree with this, but anyway). These guys are using an imagery and sound created to fight the hypocrisy of Christianism to do exactly the opposite: support it! Does that make any sense? Secondly, a sound gives off emotions and feelings. Black metal (HUBM in this case) is full of negativeness and wickedness. That's against the christian message. What is the point of having Christian lyrics if the music is telling you a different thing? Finally, I do not see anything wrong in BM bands picking this music to express different ideologies IF these are against Christianism (it'd more accurate to say Christianism against them, since the other ideologies existed before it, normally).Now, we could go into a debate about anti-Chrisitanism as satanism, the real root of this is and so on, but that's a different story. In short, a BM band sounds evil because is against Christianism and what this represents (light, hope, salvation, etc). Although this sound is not evil at all in the first place, just natural, primal, animal, wild... It was Christianism that turned these things into evil. Therefore, any ideology non-related, denying, mocking or fighting Christianism could sound like this. Obviously, Christianism is not included... I want to make clear my position here: There are of course good HUBM bands. I could listen to them with no problem because they know how to play. But the whole thing is absurd. Even more than Varg and company... Okay see i half agree with some of what you are saying (not the bolded) myself, because being a Christian myself, i don't see why one would bother with such a hateful genre. But there is some black Metal i do like, not stuff that resembles the first wave of Black Metal or the second Wave. I like alot of atomspheric Black Metal and blackned/folk/viking Metal i do care for. But when you say stuff like what i bolded, i think then that they should be involved in the scene to change opinons like that. Because to me what you are saying will eventually dwindle down to the same old thing that Christians don't belong in Metal. They guys are good at what they do and they enjoy the style. And some do it as a retalliation, how you you like to have your set of belief systems constantly under attack, under scrutiny, and overall hatred. To me It's not cool to do so, it's just being ignorant. Because it's like Oh youre a Christian well we can hate on you and Praise Satan but You Can't sing about God and Hate on Satan because that's just wrong. confused Again, I'm not trying to be mean, or hateful, or anything of the sort i am just simply trying to be my opinon and thoughts across. But it pisses me off when people think they can put down Christianity because they think they know all about it. Ie- Black Metal.
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:50 pm
No offense to you two but, i feel that someone says that Christians don't belong in black metal (mainly lyrically), they are taking black metal WAY too seriously.
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:19 pm
Well, I wasn't talking about Christians nor metal itself, but only HUBM.
I didn't even wanted to express a personal opinion but try to be objective when I wrote the phrase MH bolded.
BM was created for that. That's the truth, nothing to do with my personal point of view.
I don't mind Christian metal; metal is a genre opened to everything. But BM is a closed style ideologically speaking.
This is nothing to do with history either. If we start talking about that, I think Christianism could easily end in a very bad position.
It's as simple as BM is anti-Christian. A Christian black metal band is a paradox.
Now, hooray for God, satan and krishna, I don't care much about any of them =)
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:53 pm
My Hollow Lomedin My Hollow So because they believe in God that means that they don't face darkness in their lives? Because hey are Christian does that mean that their lives are always sunshine and butterflies? No, I know first hand this is not so. They may be pursecuted, go through dark times in their life, ect/ But maybe their lyrics eventually have a light at the end of a tunnel. They are simply writing about what they believe. Some of these guys grow up in Norway and Sweden where Black Metal is strongest and they are raised around it and love it. I see nothing wrong in appreciating a genre and wanting to play it as well. They put their lyrical spin on things. I have read some Black Metal lyrics that go with other ideologies and i hear no complaints about them. I basically agree with MegaTherion777. You can face darkness, but you do not join it to fight it. After listening to some HUBM, I must say I find it quite contradictory. They sound exactly the same as any other BM band. This means, I might like them as well. But there are some points that make me think HUBM is just not right. Firstly, as you said, the important thing are not the lyrics (I don't completely agree with this, but anyway). These guys are using an imagery and sound created to fight the hypocrisy of Christianism to do exactly the opposite: support it! Does that make any sense? Secondly, a sound gives off emotions and feelings. Black metal (HUBM in this case) is full of negativeness and wickedness. That's against the christian message. What is the point of having Christian lyrics if the music is telling you a different thing? Finally, I do not see anything wrong in BM bands picking this music to express different ideologies IF these are against Christianism (it'd more accurate to say Christianism against them, since the other ideologies existed before it, normally).Now, we could go into a debate about anti-Chrisitanism as satanism, the real root of this is and so on, but that's a different story. In short, a BM band sounds evil because is against Christianism and what this represents (light, hope, salvation, etc). Although this sound is not evil at all in the first place, just natural, primal, animal, wild... It was Christianism that turned these things into evil. Therefore, any ideology non-related, denying, mocking or fighting Christianism could sound like this. Obviously, Christianism is not included... I want to make clear my position here: There are of course good HUBM bands. I could listen to them with no problem because they know how to play. But the whole thing is absurd. Even more than Varg and company... Okay see i half agree with some of what you are saying (not the bolded) myself, because being a Christian myself, i don't see why one would bother with such a hateful genre. But there is some black Metal i do like, not stuff that resembles the first wave of Black Metal or the second Wave. I like alot of atomspheric Black Metal and blackned/folk/viking Metal i do care for. But when you say stuff like what i bolded, i think then that they should be involved in the scene to change opinons like that. Because to me what you are saying will eventually dwindle down to the same old thing that Christians don't belong in Metal. They guys are good at what they do and they enjoy the style. And some do it as a retalliation, how you you like to have your set of belief systems constantly under attack, under scrutiny, and overall hatred. To me It's not cool to do so, it's just being ignorant. Because it's like Oh youre a Christian well we can hate on you and Praise Satan but You Can't sing about God and Hate on Satan because that's just wrong. confused Again, I'm not trying to be mean, or hateful, or anything of the sort i am just simply trying to be my opinon and thoughts across. But it pisses me off when people think they can put down Christianity because they think they know all about it. Ie- Black Metal. 1) metal is open to everyone. 2) i don't hate on Christians (in fact, if they truly follow the teachings of Christ, i have a great respect for them), all i'm trying to say is what lomedin says - when the genre's roots are in pagan and anti-Christian culture and music, it seems like a paradox to have Christian BM. Christian death metal, on the other hand, is pretty damn good. 3) you mentioned having beliefs attacked. well, i'll just point out that Christians do it too, so yeah, i know what it's like to have my beliefs attacked by people who don't understand them, to be judged by people who don't know me and have no right to judge. fortunately i am not living in the time of my druid ancestors, when i would've been killed for not following the pope. i am just judged and told i am going to hell by people who do not know or understand me - as of yet, i have not been in danger of being killed by them.
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:21 pm
MegaTherion777 My Hollow Lomedin My Hollow So because they believe in God that means that they don't face darkness in their lives? Because hey are Christian does that mean that their lives are always sunshine and butterflies? No, I know first hand this is not so. They may be pursecuted, go through dark times in their life, ect/ But maybe their lyrics eventually have a light at the end of a tunnel. They are simply writing about what they believe. Some of these guys grow up in Norway and Sweden where Black Metal is strongest and they are raised around it and love it. I see nothing wrong in appreciating a genre and wanting to play it as well. They put their lyrical spin on things. I have read some Black Metal lyrics that go with other ideologies and i hear no complaints about them. I basically agree with MegaTherion777. You can face darkness, but you do not join it to fight it. After listening to some HUBM, I must say I find it quite contradictory. They sound exactly the same as any other BM band. This means, I might like them as well. But there are some points that make me think HUBM is just not right. Firstly, as you said, the important thing are not the lyrics (I don't completely agree with this, but anyway). These guys are using an imagery and sound created to fight the hypocrisy of Christianism to do exactly the opposite: support it! Does that make any sense? Secondly, a sound gives off emotions and feelings. Black metal (HUBM in this case) is full of negativeness and wickedness. That's against the christian message. What is the point of having Christian lyrics if the music is telling you a different thing? Finally, I do not see anything wrong in BM bands picking this music to express different ideologies IF these are against Christianism (it'd more accurate to say Christianism against them, since the other ideologies existed before it, normally).Now, we could go into a debate about anti-Chrisitanism as satanism, the real root of this is and so on, but that's a different story. In short, a BM band sounds evil because is against Christianism and what this represents (light, hope, salvation, etc). Although this sound is not evil at all in the first place, just natural, primal, animal, wild... It was Christianism that turned these things into evil. Therefore, any ideology non-related, denying, mocking or fighting Christianism could sound like this. Obviously, Christianism is not included... I want to make clear my position here: There are of course good HUBM bands. I could listen to them with no problem because they know how to play. But the whole thing is absurd. Even more than Varg and company... Okay see i half agree with some of what you are saying (not the bolded) myself, because being a Christian myself, i don't see why one would bother with such a hateful genre. But there is some black Metal i do like, not stuff that resembles the first wave of Black Metal or the second Wave. I like alot of atomspheric Black Metal and blackned/folk/viking Metal i do care for. But when you say stuff like what i bolded, i think then that they should be involved in the scene to change opinons like that. Because to me what you are saying will eventually dwindle down to the same old thing that Christians don't belong in Metal. They guys are good at what they do and they enjoy the style. And some do it as a retalliation, how you you like to have your set of belief systems constantly under attack, under scrutiny, and overall hatred. To me It's not cool to do so, it's just being ignorant. Because it's like Oh youre a Christian well we can hate on you and Praise Satan but You Can't sing about God and Hate on Satan because that's just wrong. confused Again, I'm not trying to be mean, or hateful, or anything of the sort i am just simply trying to be my opinon and thoughts across. But it pisses me off when people think they can put down Christianity because they think they know all about it. Ie- Black Metal. 1) metal is open to everyone. 2) i don't hate on Christians (in fact, if they truly follow the teachings of christ, i have a great respect for them), all i'm trying to say is what lomedin says - when the genre's roots are in pagan and anti-Christian culture and music, it seems like a paradox to have Christian BM. Christian death metal, on the other hand, is pretty damn good. 3) you mentioned having beliefs attacked. well, i'll just point out that Christians do it too, so yeah, i know what it's like to have my beliefs attacked by people who don't understand them, to be judged by people who don't know me and have no right to judge. fortunately i am not living in the time of my druid ancestors, when i would've been killed for not following the pope. i am just judged and told i am going to hell by people who do not know or understand me - as of yet, i have not been in danger of being killed by them. I never said you hated Christians, i know where the roots were founded but the roots as you say were Satanic, yes? Lyrics =/= genres. That's a fact, otherwise Amon Armath would be viking metal because they sing about vikings, yes? 3) I mentioned the bands being attacked not myself. I have witnessed much hate and scrunity for them. They are trying to take something founded on hate and pure ignorance and make it better. Have you ever thought about the Christians who like the sound and style of black metal but hold their religion higher than the lyrics, maybe they wanted to have listen to it but don't. Now they can enjoy the music as well. And Yes, there are Christians who judge and attack other people, and you what what? That's wrong. But we all fall short because we sin, and God knows this. No one is perfect.
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:42 pm
My Hollow I never said you hated Christians, i know where the roots were founded but the roots as you say were Satanic, yes? Lyrics =/= genres. That's a fact, otherwise Amon Armath would be viking metal because they sing about vikings, yes? 3) I mentioned the bands being attacked not myself. I have witnessed much hate and scrunity for them. They are trying to take something founded on hate and pure ignorance and make it better. Have you ever thought about the Christians who like the sound and style of black metal but hold their religion higher than the lyrics, maybe they wanted to have listen to it but don't. Now they can enjoy the music as well. And Yes, there are Christians who judge and attack other people, and you what what? That's wrong. But we all fall short because we sin, and God knows this. No one is perfect. i know you never said i hated Christians. i was just making it clear that i dont. as for the roots...the roots weren't strictly in satanism - some were, but others were from paganism. and we're not talking just lyrics - we're talking album art, musical style, atmosphere, all of it. if Christians like the dissonant musical style and want to put Christian lyrics on it, fine. but what i am saying is that black metal is more than a genre - it is based in pagan culture. so if a Christian wants to borrow the musical style and use Christian lyrics, they can, but i don't think that would qualify it as black metal. it is a different culture, a different lifestyle. i'm not saying you have to be evil to be black metal. that's just BS, and i hate it when people say that. but i am saying that true black metal is more than jsut the music - it has the cultural aspect. and Christianity is a different culture, necessitating a different genre.
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:46 pm
My Hollow MegaTherion777 My Hollow Lomedin My Hollow So because they believe in God that means that they don't face darkness in their lives? Because hey are Christian does that mean that their lives are always sunshine and butterflies? No, I know first hand this is not so. They may be pursecuted, go through dark times in their life, ect/ But maybe their lyrics eventually have a light at the end of a tunnel. They are simply writing about what they believe. Some of these guys grow up in Norway and Sweden where Black Metal is strongest and they are raised around it and love it. I see nothing wrong in appreciating a genre and wanting to play it as well. They put their lyrical spin on things. I have read some Black Metal lyrics that go with other ideologies and i hear no complaints about them. I basically agree with MegaTherion777. You can face darkness, but you do not join it to fight it. After listening to some HUBM, I must say I find it quite contradictory. They sound exactly the same as any other BM band. This means, I might like them as well. But there are some points that make me think HUBM is just not right. Firstly, as you said, the important thing are not the lyrics (I don't completely agree with this, but anyway). These guys are using an imagery and sound created to fight the hypocrisy of Christianism to do exactly the opposite: support it! Does that make any sense? Secondly, a sound gives off emotions and feelings. Black metal (HUBM in this case) is full of negativeness and wickedness. That's against the Christian message. What is the point of having Christian lyrics if the music is telling you a different thing? Finally, I do not see anything wrong in BM bands picking this music to express different ideologies IF these are against Christianism (it'd more accurate to say Christianism against them, since the other ideologies existed before it, normally).Now, we could go into a debate about anti-Chrisitanism as satanism, the real root of this is and so on, but that's a different story. In short, a BM band sounds evil because is against Christianism and what this represents (light, hope, salvation, etc). Although this sound is not evil at all in the first place, just natural, primal, animal, wild... It was Christianism that turned these things into evil. Therefore, any ideology non-related, denying, mocking or fighting Christianism could sound like this. Obviously, Christianism is not included... I want to make clear my position here: There are of course good HUBM bands. I could listen to them with no problem because they know how to play. But the whole thing is absurd. Even more than Varg and company... Okay see i half agree with some of what you are saying (not the bolded) myself, because being a Christian myself, i don't see why one would bother with such a hateful genre. But there is some black Metal i do like, not stuff that resembles the first wave of Black Metal or the second Wave. I like alot of atomspheric Black Metal and blackned/folk/viking Metal i do care for. But when you say stuff like what i bolded, i think then that they should be involved in the scene to change opinons like that. Because to me what you are saying will eventually dwindle down to the same old thing that Christians don't belong in Metal. They guys are good at what they do and they enjoy the style. And some do it as a retalliation, how you you like to have your set of belief systems constantly under attack, under scrutiny, and overall hatred. To me It's not cool to do so, it's just being ignorant. Because it's like Oh youre a Christian well we can hate on you and Praise Satan but You Can't sing about God and Hate on Satan because that's just wrong. confused Again, I'm not trying to be mean, or hateful, or anything of the sort i am just simply trying to be my opinon and thoughts across. But it pisses me off when people think they can put down Christianity because they think they know all about it. Ie- Black Metal. 1) metal is open to everyone. 2) i don't hate on Christians (in fact, if they truly follow the teachings of Christ, i have a great respect for them), all i'm trying to say is what lomedin says - when the genre's roots are in pagan and anti-Christian culture and music, it seems like a paradox to have Christian BM. Christian death metal, on the other hand, is pretty damn good. 3) you mentioned having beliefs attacked. well, i'll just point out that Christians do it too, so yeah, i know what it's like to have my beliefs attacked by people who don't understand them, to be judged by people who don't know me and have no right to judge. fortunately i am not living in the time of my druid ancestors, when i would've been killed for not following the pope. i am just judged and told i am going to hell by people who do not know or understand me - as of yet, i have not been in danger of being killed by them. I never said you hated Christians, i know where the roots were founded but the roots as you say were Satanic, yes? Lyrics =/= genres. That's a fact, otherwise Amon Armath would be viking metal because they sing about vikings, yes? 3) I mentioned the bands being attacked not myself. I have witnessed much hate and scrunity for them. They are trying to take something founded on hate and pure ignorance and make it better. Have you ever thought about the Christians who like the sound and style of black metal but hold their religion higher than the lyrics, maybe they wanted to have listen to it but don't. Now they can enjoy the music as well. And Yes, there are Christians who judge and attack other people, and you what what? That's wrong. But we all fall short because we sin, and God knows this. No one is perfect. We are sorry for our wrongs. But we are also under alot of pursecution ourselves. We are certainly not the only ones judging others now are we? How many times have you seen someone being put down in lyrics and real life for their Christian beliefs? I'm even being shrugged of in my own guild because I'm a Christian. But that's just ignorance, and i'm used to this by my non-christian friends and other epople i know. I don't speak to you now as your guild leader but as a person, a person who enjoys metal, and who has an opinon.
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