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 Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:02 pm
Kreative-Artizt Quote: Gays have their support groups and love and other s**t. I have my girlfriend which is good enough forme. Still. You dont know me. For all you know is I live onteh street and reply fromteh library. hmmm?
Yes, they have their support, but did you understand when I was saying that you can't squirm around like the victim when they are the ones beat up with bats and such?
Of course, I don't know you personally. I am just stating an opinion of mine because it's confusing when you say that you don't approve of the lifestyle, yet it's their life so it doesn't bother you. That seems backwards to me. And if you want them to stay away from you that's homophobia.
I say if you're okay with it you don't care that they are kissing in front of you or are around you for any reason. Yes, it might be uncomfortable if a gay man started to flirt with you, but that's when you just say, "Dude! Come on, no. Stop." Most understand that you are straight and if they immediately start to call you an idiot or a homophobic then they are an overall disrespectful person.
Can you see where I'm confused? Maybe if you elaborated a bit more for me. I even read your posts when you were talking to Patience, but I am still confused. I have read all your posts. I want to fight this. But my thoughts are secret. Not because Im being confusing or an irritating d**k. But because its things of my past which still scare me. Now your on an anime site, use your imagination for my last sentence. BINGO! Though, you're still wrong on what you think it is. Still. Ive been though pretty rough times. We all have. So its no real excuse. Yes gays are beat up. I DO NOOOOOOOT support gay bashing, they are still humans. I just dont agree with the life style. Though Ive been hit by a bat and stabbed and shot at. Doesnt mean I go around and use it saying, "its cause IM white." "Its cause Im baptist." "Its causeIM straight!" lol. If i was able to actually speak and post my voice takling, I would lmaol
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Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:18 pm
You are still playing a victim by saying that your past is record enough to corroborate with the beatings they go through.
I suppose it could measure up, but I don't think you can hold your past to what is happening in the present.
The present is that more gays get bashed for being gay than the baptist who is walking down the street or the white. Yes, surely, it depends on what environment you live in because some are more violent than others.
I think they have every right to parade and say it's because "I'm gay!" You personally might not claim that the reason(s) of being attacked is because you are white, but in this case when they say it's because "I'm gay" it's the truth.
They are voicing a truth...hence the "gay pride"...pride has a meaning and to me it's saying you are proud to be who you are and that you are not afraid to stand for yourself (not saying that you are!) just saying that's what I think the word pride means in this case.
I'm still not grasping the concept of what happened to you in the past relates to this. I suppose you are trying to say they aren't the only ones who have been through dangerous ordeals? Well, if that's the case, why didn't you just say instead of making yourself "high mighty" just because you've been through some sh*t? I still don't believe it can measure up especially since it is in the past...now if it continually happens to you as it does for gays in the present then I can understand.
If you want an argument you one. I'm debating as politely as I can, but your logic is so hard to understand...
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Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:12 pm
I take offense to various parts of this argument. Mainly because there is a lot of pointing the finger and stereotyping. Especially at Christians.
I'm a Christian, Yes I'm a homophobe, I may joke about stuff but I'm straight, if a girl walked up to me and tried doing things, I would get angry. But I'm definitely not an idiot.
And I don't prance around saying your lifestyle is bad, your stupid for doing it. Absolutely not. If you want to be Lesbian, gay, Bi. Go for it, just don't involve me. I've seen it way to much to bug me. I don't care, as long as you leave me out of it.
And not all Christians do that, I really disliked the fact you gave the blame completely to Christians, I know plenty of Athiests who are more rude with being homophobic then my entire church combined.
Gay pride is one thing, but what about others pride? What about a Christians pride? If I went around saying I'm Christian! I would be bashed on and ridiculed and have all my beliefs questioned and laughed at. If an Atheist went around saying I'm Atheist! There will be people who will stop him, question him, bash on his beliefs.
Is it okay for people to have Gay Pride but am I not allowed to have Christian pride? Because it seems I'm in a category that's be looked down upon mostly at this moment. I noticed when it comes to anything Christian related, such as being Anti-gay, Wars of Religion, etc. Everyone seems to point the finger at Christianity.
Oh no the poor gays! People don't like them because of what they believe!
^ I can say that about everyone.
Oh no the poor Christians! People don't like them for what they believe.
Oh no the poor Geeks! People don't like them for what the believe!
Oh no the poor Muslims! People don't like them for what they believe!
I think it's bull crap. Everyone has problems, and I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me because of my view in a pro-gay topic.
But seriously, people are so easy to take their side because "Oh they are oh so innocent!" Why not take the Christians side? "Oh it's all their fault!" Because we believe something, it's our fault? Because some people are more open or blunt then others, it's all our fault? Trust me when I say this, there are just as many people out there bashing gays who aren't Christian, then people that are.
P.S.: Is it just more or has there been like 3+ topics about the gays?
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Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:11 pm
I never said all Christians are to blame. And I never said the people of the religion to blame...what I was meaning the ideas behind religion are to blame. The fact that the bible is what condemns gays apparently, but who says they have to follow that? NO ONE...and they can still have their religious faith and be gay.
Oh, and you might be attacked for your beliefs if walk down the street and say you are Christian, but you have been physically attacked for any of it?
I understand we all poke fun and trust me atheists get their fair share of ridicule, because we apparently don't believe in anything. I can name some things I do believe in...um, my friends, family and myself. I have faith in every day things; I just don't have a faith in a "god."
Heartz, I can agree with you when you say that everyone has their problems, but you cannot say that what Christians go through (unless, they are physically beat which is in rare cases) is worse than what homosexuals go through. Sorry, I can't take a Christian's side and that's only because of the idea of religion...I wasn't blaming the PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN GOD and preach the word of the bible. I am friends with some Christians (I have problems with my own mother, because she believes in god and I don't) but that's beside the point.
And as for those atheist being rude homophobics; I'm sorry. I am not a rude homophobic atheist in fact I consider myself very tolerant. I don't care if a lesbian flirted with, I'd flirt right back! That's just me. And you hold a different opinion about, but I'm not bashing your opinion in any way. I am merely stating as to why I don't agree with it. As you stated in the beginning of your post, "I take offense to various..." and then you go about those parts you don't like.
That's what I'm doing in this post. Commenting on the parts I don't like. Maybe it was wrong of me to use the word completely...because come to think of it I know that the government has a lot to with this. Since the system we highly look up to does not condone gay marriage then the people see that it's wrong too. It's not setting a very good example of TOLERANCE!!
Yes, you and Exile are tolerating it by saying that it's fine as long as it's away from you so I suppose that's a good step. The thing is I don't see how you are going to just avoid it because you are bound to run into more often these days...
Anyway, oh, and I never said you weren't allowed to have Christian pride. You can all you want. You have just as much right as the gays. I can agree with that, but that doesn't make that pride more special than theirs. It should be on equal ground but they can't be because of one little verse that's in the bible...doesn't make sense when the Christian religion is all about spreading the LOVE of god.
That's the atheist speaking, but I do say you make a valid point, Heartz, but this confuses me: Quote: But seriously, people are so easy to take their side because "Oh they are oh so innocent!" Why not take the Christians side? "Oh it's all their fault!" Because we believe something, it's our fault? Because some people are more open or blunt then others, it's all our fault? Trust me when I say this, there are just as many people out there bashing gays who aren't Christian, then people that are.
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Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Lets hit this plain. Christain are bashed more then gays. Its proven in our lives everyday. Colinbine, christians were killed. "Do you believe in God?" "yes." *bang*.
Simple.
Sorry for the half assed answer. Im sick atm >.<
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Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:21 pm
Yes, I have been Physically attacked, not for being a Christian, but overall. Yes I have. Not to mention I was having a discussion with it to a person in class, it was shortly after class had gotten out, I was slapped for having my beliefs, the other female was an Atheist who decided to openly question my beliefs, I defended myself and that was my result.
And as Exile stated above, just because it doesn't happen here, doesn't mean it doesn't happen anywhere. Christians on a daily basis get killed or attacked somewhere for their beliefs. Everything does. Somewhere, someone is getting beaten or killed because of something they believe in whether it be being gay, believing in a god, or not believing in a god.
And yes, I've had debates with people, plenty of times and most of the time the debate turns to Christianity and gays in which the gays are defended and I'm pointed at as the offender, it's a major fall back point for a lot of Atheists I've debated with. The reason why it's looked down upon is because it's against god's original plan. But lets keep the Religious debate out of it, I get too much of it as is.
I cannot completely avoid it, but debating it with gays is a pointless act. Debating with anyone who has their mind set up is completely pointless. It's just a fight of I'm right your wrong, going back and forth. I leave them alone in hopes they leave me alone, of course it's not going to be that way 24/7 I know this because it does happen sometimes. But it's a lot easier for everyone to just leave it alone and keep my distance.
No, I did not mention Gay Christians at all. I stated that there are just as many people who aren't christian that are bashing gays, then people who are christian.
And if I may ask, why point out Christians? Why not Catholics? Heck they are more strict then Christians.
Yes I agree people can be mean. I experience it first hand everyday on how rude and frustrating people can be. But everyone's experiences are different, and so is everyone's tolerance.
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:56 am
ExileDeath Lets hit this plain. Christain are bashed more then gays. Its proven in our lives everyday. Colinbine, christians were killed. "Do you believe in God?" "yes." *bang*. Simple. Sorry for the half assed answer. Im sick atm >.<
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:12 am
Heartz of Spadez Yes, I have been Physically attacked, not for being a Christian, but overall. Yes I have. Not to mention I was having a discussion with it to a person in class, it was shortly after class had gotten out, I was slapped for having my beliefs, the other female was an Atheist who decided to openly question my beliefs, I defended myself and that was my result. And as Exile stated above, just because it doesn't happen here, doesn't mean it doesn't happen anywhere. Christians on a daily basis get killed or attacked somewhere for their beliefs. Everything does. Somewhere, someone is getting beaten or killed because of something they believe in whether it be being gay, believing in a god, or not believing in a god. And yes, I've had debates with people, plenty of times and most of the time the debate turns to Christianity and gays in which the gays are defended and I'm pointed at as the offender, it's a major fall back point for a lot of Atheists I've debated with. The reason why it's looked down upon is because it's against god's original plan. But lets keep the Religious debate out of it, I get too much of it as is. I cannot completely avoid it, but debating it with gays is a pointless act. Debating with anyone who has their mind set up is completely pointless. It's just a fight of I'm right your wrong, going back and forth. I leave them alone in hopes they leave me alone, of course it's not going to be that way 24/7 I know this because it does happen sometimes. But it's a lot easier for everyone to just leave it alone and keep my distance. No, I did not mention Gay Christians at all. I stated that there are just as many people who aren't christian that are bashing gays, then people who are christian. And if I may ask, why point out Christians? Why not Catholics? Heck they are more strict then Christians. Yes I agree people can be mean. I experience it first hand everyday on how rude and frustrating people can be. But everyone's experiences are different, and so is everyone's tolerance.
And I do understand that christians are attacked as well for certain issues, but that doesn't mean that they need to be put on higher pedestal while the gays are looked at as scum.
All right. I can agree that there are people out there who aren't christian bashing gays. That is very true.
Oh, and like I said I didn't point out the PEOPLE. I was talking about the idea of christianity and you might as well toss catholicism in there too because it has do with the same god. Anyway, it's the idea behind that one verse in the bible that pisses me off. Why do people have to be mean about it because of one little thing stated in a book? I mean if it's what they believe, then all right, I guess.
I really am truly sorry you run into rude people so often. I guess I am lucky in finding the sort of nice ones, I suppose. I haven't been attacked for my beliefs physically. Only verbally.
About the debating, I think that when you are in one it's good to set up your point of view as long as they person you are speaking with is respectful enough to listen...seems like you haven't ran into that many. I have some people who are nice enough to hear me out and I am hearing you out, but with my own disagreements along the way. I can't just sit here and ignore those disagreements I have to make comments on them...
I jumped to the religion factor because well I think as an atheist I find it to be one of the big factors for this problem...
But you are right too each their own and if you believe in a god, good for you. I'm not going to call you stupid, you put you down for it. It's what you believe, but I have clashing views with it so if it comes up it's kind of inevitable.
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:17 am
Heartz of Spadez I cannot completely avoid it, but debating it with gays is a pointless act. ::cough:: STEROTYPING ::cough:: Heartz of Spadez Debating with anyone who has their mind set up is completely pointless. It's just a fight of I'm right your wrong, going back and forth. Are you aware of the fact that you just admitted you have YOUR mind set? Also to both you and to exile, even if some Christians actually get physically hurt for their beliefs, which is horrible, the number is so damn low. The statistics on gays getting physically hurt is ridiculously high, it is NO CONTEST how much worse it is for homosexuals.
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:54 am
@Artist: Well, I'm glad we've come to agreement on both our sides. Except I wasn't trying to put Christianity on a high pedestal I was trying to even it out with them.
@Patience: I can see you like to mock people in your arguments but no, that's not a stereotype, that's a label. Stereotyping would be to say that All Christians are A-holes, because of a few you've encountered. And if you're going to quote something, please quote what was after it because I stated why, which even if it looked like stereotyping, it would have voided that.
Yes I have my mind set. Haven't we been debating about our views just now? You can't defend a view on something without a mindset.
Sure It's no contest, but from my point of view, you're pushing everything under and putting them on this high pedestal which um, weren't you trying to make things equal? Maybe that was just Artist.
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:18 pm
You may not have meant it as a stereotype, but I can see where Patience might interpret that, Heartz. You blatantly stated that arguing with gays is pointless..and so that's all she noticed. You referred to just them, but then you did explain that debating with anyone who has their mind set is pointless...you sort of justified it, but you singled the gays out nonetheless...
And yes I was trying to make them equal the entire time, but I guess I wasn't explaining that very well. I was saying you can't claim that being a victimized christian or whatever religious person is worse than being a victimized homosexual. They are both equally worse...no one better, but I still do side with the homosexuals on most occasions unless I find the evidence in support of the other; as in it was noticeable they were blatantly attacked without enticing it. And the same goes for my reasoning with homosexuals.
I suppose you can say that I know how to come to middle ground with certain aspects, but you can also tell that I lean more to one side for my own purposes and logic; if that makes any sense...
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:23 pm
Heartz of Spadez @Patience: I can see you like to mock people in your arguments but no, that's not a stereotype, that's a label. Stereotyping would be to say that All Christians are A-holes, because of a few you've encountered. If it came across as mocking then I am sorry. In my view you have been the mocking one. So I suppose over the internet it is hard to tell. I'm quite sick at the moment like Exile so I am tryign to be clear but I'm pretty out of it. Also, It was a stereotype because your words meant that all gays are one sided: you said "I cannot completely avoid it, but debating it with gays is a pointless act. " You are stereotyping all gays by saying they are all too closed minded to have a debate that isn't pointless. Heartz of Spadez And if you're going to quote something, please quote what was after it because I stated why, which even if it looked like stereotyping, it would have voided that. I did continue the rest of your quote right underneath it, I simply took a break to respond to that one aspect (just like I'm doing now.) Just because you were saying that other people are one sided in addition to gay people afterwords, you still generalized all of gay people as being one sided. If you didn't mean that then good, but it is what you said. Heartz of Spadez Yes I have my mind set. Haven't we been debating about our views just now? You can't defend a view on something without a mindset. It's not about having a mindset, you said "mind set up" and made it clear you meant closed minded to possibly change their views from a debate. Then you said you are like that. So why should you be in a debate when you admit that it is pointless to debate with you? Reminder: "Debating with anyone who has their mind set up is completely pointless. It's just a fight of I'm right your wrong, going back and forth." Heartz of Spadez Sure It's no contest, but from my point of view, you're pushing everything under and putting them on this high pedestal which um, weren't you trying to make things equal? Maybe that was just Artist. I think anyone's life being taken or hurt because of their beliefs is equally wrong. However, because it happens so much more to gay people, and thank you for admitting that there is indeed no contest, the fear and mental trauma to even gay's not hurt is tremendous. They have to endure much worse agony for the most part. So it's not that they are more important, it's just that they are in need of sympathy much more often. Also, how is me saying if Christians get hurt it's horrible "pushing everything under"? I'm glad you wrote it was your point of view, because in your head is the only place to me where that could be true.
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:24 pm
I don't see how I have been mocking when I've only defended my stand point. And everyone is one sided, especially in this debate. If I was to tell a gay, being gay is bad. Would that make him go "Oh, never mind then I'm won't be gay anymore."? No it won't. So of course they are going to be one sided, I never said they would be close minded. To be close minded is to throw all reason and understanding of another view out the window. I did not say they can't debate, I said it's pointless "to" debate with them. You continued the rest of my quote in a completely different manner instead of taking it up with you previous statement. And again, everyone is one sided, I'm one sided, you're one sided. When someone believes in something, their views become one sided. Everyone is one sided with something. People can debate with who they want, if someone wants to debate with me fine. You're debating with me right now are you not? So this is pointless? We aren't going to change, I came to defend my mind set and that's what I've done. I think it's my turn to quote now. patience1984 Also to both you and to exile, even if some Christians actually get physically hurt for their beliefs, which is horrible, the number is so damn low. The statistics on gays getting physically hurt is ridiculously high, it is NO CONTEST how much worse it is for homosexuals.Okay, lets throw all the other problems aside and give Gays all our sympathy, Christians don't get hurt as much so they don't matter. This is my last post here as I'm actually getting tired of this debate, it's only going in circles. Good luck to you guys and girls who wish to continue.
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:39 pm
If you care to come back and read this...Leaving won't solve the problem...if you want to prove a point I would suggest you stay, Heartz.
And as for the quote you have from Patience. I think she stated a statistic to show that homosexuals are more often attacked than christians...
I don't think she meant to say that christians don't matter.
"Okay, lets throw all the other problems aside and give Gays all our sympathy, Christians don't get hurt as much so they don't matter. "
And for record I DON'T LIKE THIS STATEMENT, because I never once mentioned that them getting hurt doesn't matter. You are just on their side and I can come to middle ground, but in the end I lean to the side of the homosexuals.
Yes, this might go in circles, but who says proving your point in circles isn't fun? Especially, if you have a point.
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:05 am
-Sigh- I hate homophobes..
I have gay friends and gay family members and they do get a lot of crap. People fear what they do not understand, its as simple as that, its stupid and pathetic but true.
No matter where you go you will find homophobic people even if you do not look for them. My advice ignore it, pity them because they are so insecure about their own sexuality they insult yours.
Where Christians are concerned my advice screw them all, Or do what my uncle did and punch the preacher in the face, or if they call you a "f*****t" or say its wrong and your going to hell. Just embrace it say "Yes and i'll see you there"
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