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Nanoq
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:21 am


Sluvotsky
Cuckoo what? gonk
Kukushka, it's her username. Not Maya's, but... Kukushkas! ^^
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:43 am


Mivi
My friend, who's Belarusian, said that in Russian grammar were not that important sometimes, like in the sentence 'I don't know'. She said it could go 'I know not' or 'I not know'. I can't remember it the examples she said were those, but I hope you get what I'm trying to say, that a Russian phrases and sentences could go different and still mean the same thing. Now, my question: is that true? Or did I just get what she said wrong?

It's not that Russian gramma isn't important (it's VERY VERY important and extremely complex), it's just that word order isn't important.

It's perfectly ok to say "znayu ne ya." Grammatically, that's perfect. The thing is that, like in every other language, people are a little lazy and repeat what they hear. So it falls into patterns. Most people will use the standard S-V-O word order in most cases.

But, people will still change word order to change the emphasis. For example, I could ask "vy ne znayete gde Sasha?" Here, the emphasis is on "Sasha." I don't care who knows where he is, I don't care where someone else is, I just want to know where Sasha is. But say I am in a group and we're teasing Mr. Filippov. Everyone else knows where Sasha is, but we just want to give him trouble because he doesn't know. We might ask the question "ne znayete gde Sasha vy?" That's a terrible example, but you get the point smile

The reason for this is because Russian is an inflectional language. Basically, the meaning is conveyed by the word endings, not the word order. So if I said "Ya lyublyu tebia," we know that it's ME loving YOU. I could say that as "tebia lyublyu ya" and it would still mean the same thing. The reason is that "ya" is in the nominative form (subject of the verb) and "tebia" is in the accusative form (object).

Anyways, if you have any more questions, feel free to ask smile

No problem, Proudly_Jewish. Glad to help!

Akhakhu


Proudly_Jewish
Captain

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:22 pm


By the way Kukushka, do you speak Russian as a mother language, or are you learning it?

I was born in Moscow and have been speaking Russian my entire life and I've never heard "znayu ne ya" or "ne znayete gde Sasha vy" eek Then again it might be dialect stuff ninja
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:33 pm


Proudly_Jewish
By the way Kukushka, do you speak Russian as a mother language, or are you learning it?

I was born in Moscow and have been speaking Russian my entire life and I've never heard "znayu ne ya" or "ne znayete gde Sasha vy" eek Then again it might be dialect stuff ninja

Like I said, most people just follow the pattern they hear because when you are speaking and need to say something fast, it's easiest. It's grammatically correct, but rare.

That's why my example was so bad. Word order is frequently changed in questions to shift emphasis, I just can't think of a good example where people commonly do it.

But my point is just that it's still perfectly grammatically correct to mix up word order (and often done in music). It's just that people aren't used to hearing weird word orders and will look at you weirdly if you do it wink Which, I think, is partially why inflections dropped out of English in the early Middle English period.

I'm learning Russian as a second language (err... third? sixth? something like that...) now. I'm still VERY much a beginer. I'm just a grammar fanatic, lol xp

Akhakhu


Quaterdollarbillcoin

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:04 am


Proudly_Jewish
By the way Kukushka, do you speak Russian as a mother language, or are you learning it?

I was born in Moscow and have been speaking Russian my entire life and I've never heard "znayu ne ya" or "ne znayete gde Sasha vy" eek Then again it might be dialect stuff ninja


Im from Ukraine and i havent heard that before.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:23 am


Ok, you know how you can say "ya lyublyu tebia" or "ya tebia lyublyu" or "tebia lyublyu ya"? Or "A ty kuda yedesh?" or "A kuda ty yedesh?"?

If you haven't studied grammar, it's quite possible that you wouldn't know about this. As I've said, you speak the language instinctively and may not be aware that you are changing word order.

Akhakhu


Nanoq
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:49 pm


THANK YOU! ^^ That's exactly what I wanted to hear. smile I meant word order, sorry, I'm pretty bad at using the correct word, I often mix 'em all up. .__. But thank you, now I know what my friend meant. Cпасибо! biggrin
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:20 am


Mivi
THANK YOU! ^^ That's exactly what I wanted to hear. smile I meant word order, sorry, I'm pretty bad at using the correct word, I often mix 'em all up. .__. But thank you, now I know what my friend meant. Cпасибо! biggrin

Haha, no problem wink

Akhakhu


Allahura

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:06 pm


здравствуйте

Well I was going to ask for a good Russian text program, but here is seems everyone is just phonetically writing the stuff so maybe no one knows one?

Anyway, as it seems a topic of discussion, I'm a mutt, truly, Scottish, Irish, Swiss, German, and European.

Not a drop of Russian in me but I wanted to take Russian since I was small, I honestly can't remember why but now that I'm taking it it is because our teacher is the best. She's so sweet, she's not very good at English and she is of the firm belief that everyone should drink Vodka.

So now I wanna stick with it. Sadly though my russian Cursive and accent suck. If I could just write forever in print I would do much better.


Whooops just found where you posted that nifty keyboard thing, though I'm still looking one that hooks up to my keyboard so I can just type rather than clicking on the letter if anyone knows...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:12 am


Allahura
Whooops just found where you posted that nifty keyboard thing, though I'm still looking one that hooks up to my keyboard so I can just type rather than clicking on the letter if anyone knows...

I used to have one and I just tried to find the topic on the Russian message board I go to where it was suggested, but I couldn't find it sad

I actually like the online thing quite a bit better simply because I don't have to put stickers all over my keyboard. Those can be a real drag.

But if you want one, a google search should give you a couple choices. Of course, how well they work can really be a crapshoot. The one I had, for example, listed the key order wrongly (or maybe it was right on a differently configured keyboard?). So I actually had to sit in Word and test all the keys out before putting stickers on. I also had some problems with it working sometimes and then not working other times...

I just write phonetically because it's easier and I'm lazy wink

And hey! Swiss! I was born there and lived there until I was about 11 smile

Akhakhu


Allahura

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:54 am


Kukushka


But if you want one, a google search should give you a couple choices. Of course, how well they work can really be a crapshoot. The one I had, for example, listed the key order wrongly (or maybe it was right on a differently configured keyboard?). So I actually had to sit in Word and test all the keys out before putting stickers on. I also had some problems with it working sometimes and then not working other times...


Yeah...that's my problem.

My computer is my baby, I can't bring myself to download something without knowing it will work.

I mean not even if it will work or not, there's viruses and spyware and lots of horrible crap.

grr.. Well thanks anyway, I mean I'll make do with the one listed here I just figured you guys were the best bet on knowing a good program.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:58 pm


Russian seems nice, but i dont think i would ever be able to understand cyril's alphabet.

saxophonicus


Allahura

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:46 pm


saxophonicus
Russian seems nice, but i dont think i would ever be able to understand cyril's alphabet.


It's easier than you think, it's when you get into verbs of motion that everything starts going down hill.

Or is that just me?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:20 pm


Я люблю русского! heart heart heart

lessucettes


Akhakhu

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:08 am


Allahura
It's easier than you think, it's when you get into verbs of motion that everything starts going down hill.

Or is that just me?

Haha, I have no problems with the verbs. Kuku is down wit da verbage. My problem is with the cases. "Now is this supposed to be a genitive or a dative?" sweatdrop
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