A FOURTH Knight!? What sort of blasphemous thing is THIS!?!? XD
What? What fourth knight? I was just encouraging her to make one in general really. haha And I was saying I could make a fourth character...that would be a knight...to help out. haha
You'd have to apply for a crew position for that. ^^;
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:40 am
Rengato
Alykia
Rengato
A FOURTH Knight!? What sort of blasphemous thing is THIS!?!? XD
What? What fourth knight? I was just encouraging her to make one in general really. haha And I was saying I could make a fourth character...that would be a knight...to help out. haha
You'd have to apply for a crew position for that. ^^;
Responsibility beyond the norm? No thanks haha although I guess I've sort of been helping people with making characters already... Maybe Pavel could turn into a knight...who knows... I can at least attempt to convince people to make knights though. Oh, that reminds me...someone I sort of know was creating a character...I could check to see if it's a knight...hmm
A FOURTH Knight!? What sort of blasphemous thing is THIS!?!? XD
What? What fourth knight? I was just encouraging her to make one in general really. haha And I was saying I could make a fourth character...that would be a knight...to help out. haha
You'd have to apply for a crew position for that. ^^;
Responsibility beyond the norm? No thanks haha although I guess I've sort of been helping people with making characters already... Maybe Pavel could turn into a knight...who knows... I can at least attempt to convince people to make knights though. Oh, that reminds me...someone I sort of know was creating a character...I could check to see if it's a knight...hmm
I'll be back on in a bit. Going to my classes for the day.
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:45 am
Rengato
Alykia
Rengato
Alykia
Rengato
A FOURTH Knight!? What sort of blasphemous thing is THIS!?!? XD
What? What fourth knight? I was just encouraging her to make one in general really. haha And I was saying I could make a fourth character...that would be a knight...to help out. haha
You'd have to apply for a crew position for that. ^^;
Responsibility beyond the norm? No thanks haha although I guess I've sort of been helping people with making characters already... Maybe Pavel could turn into a knight...who knows... I can at least attempt to convince people to make knights though. Oh, that reminds me...someone I sort of know was creating a character...I could check to see if it's a knight...hmm
I'll be back on in a bit. Going to my classes for the day.
A FOURTH Knight!? What sort of blasphemous thing is THIS!?!? XD
What? What fourth knight? I was just encouraging her to make one in general really. haha And I was saying I could make a fourth character...that would be a knight...to help out. haha
Explain the "fourth" part lol
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:40 pm
Makako-ma
Explain the "fourth" part lol
Oh, I think she was mixing my posts to you and her together. I was saying that I could make a fourth character (technically I have three already and that is the limit) if it was allowed in order to add another knight since there are a lot less compared to mages. I'd have to be a mod for that though. So no knight for me...unless Pavel decides to be one I guess? He is going to "magic/whatever" school.
Anyway, as a suggestion for you I was just saying that you could switch to making a knight...since there is a need for more and it'd be a different type of character to think about.
Oh, I think she was mixing my posts to you and her together. I was saying that I could make a fourth character (technically I have three already and that is the limit) if it was allowed in order to add another knight since there are a lot less compared to mages. I'd have to be a mod for that though. So no knight for me...unless Pavel decides to be one I guess? He is going to "magic/whatever" school.
Anyway, as a suggestion for you I was just saying that you could switch to making a knight...since there is a need for more and it'd be a different type of character to think about.
Lol, there's probably no knights because of the system they have here. It doesn't encourage working hard to make one
Edit
Before anyone gets pissy about this this has nothing to do with any disagreement I've had with anyone. It's a matter of learning curves, incentive, and the suggested outcome at a glance when looking at this guild from the outside.
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:48 pm
Makako-ma
This isn't me getting pissy, this is just me responding normally btw.
If you have some problem about the system in place then instead of complaining about it, why not suggest something? We aren't perfect and never claimed to be and we probably won't ever be.
If this guild is so flawed at a glance then I don't understand why people are joining in the first place. So before anyone else wants to complain about a system that they put no effort into, they should likely try to make a suggestion before throwing some shade onto the RP itself.
Caymi
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Makako-ma
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:19 pm
Caymi
Makako-ma
This isn't me getting pissy, this is just me responding normally btw.
If you have some problem about the system in place then instead of complaining about it, why not suggest something? We aren't perfect and never claimed to be and we probably won't ever be.
If this guild is so flawed at a glance then I don't understand why people are joining in the first place. So before anyone else wants to complain about a system that they put no effort into, they should likely try to make a suggestion before throwing some shade onto the RP itself.
Time and effort aren't so easily measured and there isn't an actual need to change and thus a suggestion will go to strange places. There is only an outcome you may or may not be interested in changing. I'm not complaining, I'm commenting on something that several others have brought up and am not in any position to expect any enjoyable conversation resulting from any suggestions I give or whatever they may be called if I were to give them. I will mention something simple like why people don't feel incentivized to make something in particular. I'm not going to demand or suggest any change.. the reason is related to prior treatment but I'm not complaining about that either. I'm just explaining a personal decision not to go the extra mile and engage people in some game development conversation especially when there's a good chance they are short tempered and/or simply frustrated with me over some long term misunderstanding etcetc
In summary
There is an incentive issue. My interest in changing that through changes to the guild itself is lost. I don't believe it has to be fixed via guild rules either. If the mods don't like this subject being discussed then why did they bring it up or let someone else do so? I'm pretty sure it was the mods that brought this subject up. If discussing it is something like trashing the roleplay then I'll find it hard to believe this is really about that at all. It's not even a critique, it's just a statistically evidenced observation albeit based on personal experience
Super short version
I have no suggestion to make unless you actually want one. Making a knight and maybe encouraging someone else to make one would be the easier solution that doesn't involve further whatever it is going on with whomever.
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:36 pm
Makako-ma
The real TLDR is something like this of what you just typed.
Is literally the same thing you just said in 2 different paragraphs on ask the crew, so i don't know why you feel the need to inflate your words for meaningless "fluff"
The long answer is:
You don't like the systems in the RP. You don't give a suggestion for something you've complained about before. All you do is ASSUME we don't want to hear your suggestions, and let me give a bit of advice from someone who's lived awhile. Don't assume things. It only makes an a** out of U and ME.
Also you need to understand...you aren't a special snowflake. WE ALL follow the rules of character design, and you seem to be the only one with a problem.
And if it's a personal decision that you don't want to "complain" with...then why are you posting in the first place? Thats like knocking on someone's door, waiting for them to answer, and saying "I don't want to talk to you.". Meaning you could have just avoided the house in general and avoided the situation.
"There is an incentive issue. My interest in changing that through changes to the guild itself is lost. I don't believe it has to be fixed via guild rules either. If the mods don't like this subject being discussed then why did they bring it up or let someone else do so? I'm pretty sure it was the mods that brought this subject up. If discussing it is something like trashing the roleplay then I'll find it hard to believe this is really about that at all. It's not even a critique, it's just a statistically evidenced observation albeit based on personal experience"
Once again to bring on the point from before, we only respond when, when responded too. You continued the conversation from there, and you too had the option to end it from before. All the long commenting with "Lol, there's probably no knights because of the system they have here. It doesn't encourage working hard to make one." is like poking the sleeping dog. You literally say that TO GET A REACTION.
To summarize:
If you don't like something, suggest something new. If you assume we don't want to hear it, don't be mad when we don't fix some problems. Secondly and most importantly, just stop talking if you don't have a reason to. We don't need or want your pointless comments about things being flawed if you aren't going to help fix the problem yourself; because then you are only pouring gas on the fire for no reason.
My final judgment to this, is either cap it, or move on. There are plenty of other RP's for you to goto if you find this one unsatisfying.
Caymi
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Makako-ma
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:02 pm
Caymi
Makako-ma
The real TLDR is something like this of what you just typed.
Is literally the same thing you just said in 2 different paragraphs on ask the crew, so i don't know why you feel the need to inflate your words for meaningless "fluff"
The long answer is:
You don't like the systems in the RP. You don't give a suggestion for something you've complained about before. All you do is ASSUME we don't want to hear your suggestions, and let me give a bit of advice from someone who's lived awhile. Don't assume things. It only makes an a** out of U and ME.
Also you need to understand...you aren't a special snowflake. WE ALL follow the rules of character design, and you seem to be the only one with a problem.
And if it's a personal decision that you don't want to "complain" with...then why are you posting in the first place? Thats like knocking on someone's door, waiting for them to answer, and saying "I don't want to talk to you.". Meaning you could have just avoided the house in general and avoided the situation.
"There is an incentive issue. My interest in changing that through changes to the guild itself is lost. I don't believe it has to be fixed via guild rules either. If the mods don't like this subject being discussed then why did they bring it up or let someone else do so? I'm pretty sure it was the mods that brought this subject up. If discussing it is something like trashing the roleplay then I'll find it hard to believe this is really about that at all. It's not even a critique, it's just a statistically evidenced observation albeit based on personal experience"
Once again to bring on the point from before, we only respond when, when responded too. You continued the conversation from there, and you too had the option to end it from before. All the long commenting with "Lol, there's probably no knights because of the system they have here. It doesn't encourage working hard to make one." is like poking the sleeping dog. You literally say that TO GET A REACTION.
To summarize:
If you don't like something, suggest something new. If you assume we don't want to hear it, don't be mad when we don't fix some problems. Secondly and most importantly, just stop talking if you don't have a reason to. We don't need or want your pointless comments about things being flawed if you aren't going to help fix the problem yourself; because then you are only pouring gas on the fire for no reason.
My final judgment to this, is either cap it, or move on. There are plenty of other RP's for you to goto if you find this one unsatisfying.
People are usually just looking for an excuse when they say things like that. It comes off as passive aggressive. I mention this because it's related to why I'm saying it this way.
I'm not long typing because I "want" a reaction. I'm long typing because I long type, especially when I don't feel like my current conversation is actually a friendly conversation anymore or that it ever was. In any case I expect to be somehow judged rather than simply talk to anyone at this point no matter how casual my words felt on my end.
Speaking of assumptions, you're assuming I'm unhappy with something game design related. I am if you look at another context but I consider this to be a different subject altogether. Its like saying I'm unhappy that there is no incentive to type in a more formal way. That's just how it is, it's not good or bad unless you're being oversensitive and reading into it far too much and at the moment I do not feel like it is a good idea to make a formal suggestion unless asked to do so. I wouldn't even bother mentioning it if it wasn't made into a guildwide matter of discussion via an announcement of some sort by the creators themselves.
I'm responding this way because you're making me feel tense. I'm discussing the matter because there's a limit to how far I'm willing to go to appease the mods. I'll scrap a character but the inability to discuss publically announced issues is an entirely different level of extreme.
But more to the point, DO you want my suggestion? I'd keep it short or type it out in detail for you just like how you spend a lot of time typing when I ask you for your take on something. Obviously I'm not one who is going to have a most favored opinion so I'll go into enough detail that this doesn't matter if you want. Or I could just make a knight... because someone mentioned the issue in an announcement and I could make any sort of character if in starting from scratch.
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:17 pm
Makako-ma
What is your suggestion?
Rengato Vice Captain
Cunning Businesswoman
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Caymi
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:20 pm
Makako-ma
Don't even start on passive aggressive with me lol, because doll. You are the Queen.
I'm being friendly, if i wasn't i'd be insulting you for no reason or being flat out rude. Once again..you are assuming i'll judge you simply because you had an argument before with a completely different person.
If you weren't unhappy...you wouldn't be complaining or making your point KNOWN that their is a flaw. And i don't really care if you say you aren't complaining, because really you are...just accept that. You are complaining.
You're making me feel tense, thats what you don't seem to get. Is that you aren't the only person that feels these things when someone replies to you in a way or pokes fun at a flaw in your system without taking steps to mend it. It just makes you look like an a*****e, flat out. Im fine with constructive criticism, WHEN ITS CRITICISM.
I've only said 50 times, give your suggestion if you have one. Frankly I'm tired of getting on gaia and 95% of the time a profile or a post has you in it..."complaining" or "arguing". I bare ZERO ill will towards you and believe it or not, i want you to enjoy this RP.
That's all im trying to get across to you. Stop making pointless posts about something you have no intention of helping with, or something that there is no reason to post about? Pointless tactless comments that rude and flat out insulting, even if you don't mean they are.
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:50 pm
Caymi
There's a pretty big difference between making someone tense because they do something you don't like and making someone tense with the power to ban them after giving some sort of ultimatum and some hint that they could just leave.
It would be different if you were going to promote me to crew status but you haven't actually said you wanted my opinion which goes back to another thing I don't think either of us really wants to discuss anymore. I'm not being passive aggressive, i'm chatting in the ooc as a non-crew member about something that is only bad because you yourself or one of your mods suggested it was yourselves.
Its better to think of this as angry cuddling. I'm doing something right now that shouldn't really be a problem if the end goal is something positive. Its like when your sister gets mad at you and says you cant have anymore of her cookies but then when you visit her house she says you cant have a hug and you have to break her door down and scream like a maniac while chasing her around her house because its better to stand your ground at some point. I am aggressively casual-conversationing you in the ooc and wish to continue as it is likely to result in a better outcome than avoiding the mods after some sort of issue.
Rengato
the problem this addresses
Theres a lot to it but starting out there is a thing I don't know the formal name of so ill just call it "gameflow"
I start off coming to your guild, I see the home page and a description of some sort of geography where a map would have sufficed and I ask myself, what is useful here? Something about 6 beasts that formed a world?
I keep reading to the third paragraph (where the story used to end) and I see something about mages or.. was it knights? Something was growing in numbers and I do not understand this at all. Remember I'm new as I read this and have no clue where this is going. It ends abruptly and i'm still not sure what all this has to do with fantastical beasts and other things. I just know theres going to be knights and mages.
So first I see all the length of this, wow so detail, much fun maybe
so the races all have abilities right?
But then theres affinities? WOW um.. ok so ill need to pick one of these actually kindof vague looking things, it will certainly become clearer as I go on
and now there are magic schools! HURRAH I THINK! this is getting a bit complicated.
Then there are unions, character classes, exclusive abilities etcetc
somewhere along the line you realize that your character race loses something if they have a certain class and gain some other ability based on the other 3-4 categories with some clause somewhere that states this or that must be like this or that to qualify as this or that as long as it doesn't violate this or that...
at this point i'm off to go look and see if theres an easy way to get this done and I end up at the profile examples
turns out I can just be a mage and go "pew pew" with a list of spells or I can be a knight which based off traditional lore and what ive seen will end up being a much harder role with less unique options for finding a "pair" coughsemisubmissiveloveinterestthroughimplicationcough and less control over which person is best for you. It also means that as a knight you have a less in-depth reason for being strong before being paired by default aside from "the world just works that way, just write a story about how you were gifted by the gods and go find a scholarly person who got their power from books and stuff."
Now even if people do end up making knights then if things don't work out as planned the mages go "pewpew" and the knights just kindof wander around on their own getting the pointy end of the unfortunate circumstance. They end up as somewhat generic characters while mages have more freedom in such a situation.
It is for this reason I say there is not much incentive for new people and older players OR people who held interest but never acted on it may or may not try to continue this. The same problem exists in many games, for example in any given MMO oftentimes the only reason healers are ever played is because they get sexy outfits and accolades from all the people they help but leveling a healer as a solo player IS ABSOLUTE HELL and yet they will be in such crazy high demand despite nobody wanting to be one themselves.
the actual suggestion
1. rework the home page to focus on a romantic story where romance is defined more literally (a normal man slaying a giant is romantic) and leave the grandiose origin stories in the lore book
2. make an actual lore book. Separate this completely from the game systems section with a focus on making it as non-intimidating as possible
3. revamp the magic and racial system. If I remember right one's nature affected them down to the core of their personality? In anycase perhaps you should take inspirations from magic the gathering and archeage in order to incorporate what you already have made into a system that simplifies the whole process.
for example in terms of magic the gathering
fire element and red in magics color wheel go hand in hand. This color involves impulse, explosions and inspiriation. As you move towards its neighboring color green you move into the realm of the physical and its relation to the world itself. As you move in the other direction you move into neighboring color black which moves into the realm of the mind, in this case it involves madness, destruction, and ambition but if you go beyond such things you move into blue which is where you find knowledge, intrigue, etc then you go further and find law, tradition, ritual etc.
for examples involving archeage
There are certain gods from the past that are the creators of 8 sets of magics and physical feats. By picking 3 classes you get a particular class with certain benefits from any given mixture of classes. But that's too complicated for anyone not getting paid to try and balance, the point is that ones abilities can determine one's archetype or one can choose an archetype and simply build something from a set of not terribly complicated expectations. In the case of archeage you get a certain number of points to distribute across three classes.
The equivalent of natural abilities in this game requires that you take a certain number of skills in a particular class before you can take that particular ability. For example if I want to be fire resistant maybe I need 10 skill points out of 30 in magic including possibly less costly natural abilities + active abilities. In this game that would mean perhaps that in order to say "be immune to shadow magics" I must have a significant but specific number of lesser abilities or spells involving shadow magics and related subjects. Since knights seem to be more focused on natural abilities one could say their natural abilities are instead unlocked and to cast some variation of a spell or spell-like thing they'd need a certain number of abilities or lesser spells.
4. suggest and create some NPCs who suggest certain things that are encouraged in this roleplay, namely the knight mage pairing. An academy is of course a great opportunity. The more complicated the system is without suggesting that knights are simply awesome the more rewarding it will feel to simply make a mage and hope for the best... unless there is of course incentive which can be created in many ways from a simple request to do so or perhaps some easy to find suggestion that you will definitely be sought out and given reason to do something as a knight.
In this case you will want to borrow from anime where knights and mages can come off as pretty equal until the romantic pairing occurs. Romantic in this case referred to as a sortof salacious sort of thing.
obviously nothing this ridiculous but a little drama can make picking either class more fun if you see something beforehand suggesting its going to be more about the thing you already suggest is a really big deal here. The ooc pairing thing is nice and all but maybe i'm feeling nervous or have different goals that change with the wind. Maybe I just need to find someone similar to me or adaptable. Maybe I need to be forced by circumstance.. maybe I want to go completely random.
5. lastly change the permanence of the bonds to something that can reach different levels. I recommend having pairs create a bond ability together instead of having it attached to a particular persons profile. There can also be penalties for knights that go bonding around with other mages in accordance with the contract type and the character natures... dramallama
This is my solution to a problem that doesn't have to be fixed unless you really want to. It might be easier to just ask someone to make a knight.. its not like years ago where theres hundreds of people pouring in everywhere and its actually a sortof good thing at all. They aren't listed in order of importance though I did pick the top 5 things not ALL of them.
Makako-ma
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Rengato Vice Captain
Cunning Businesswoman
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:45 pm
Makako-ma
Before addressing what you call your "Actual Suggestion," I would like to address what is blatantly testing my patience. Why, when you stated you would only give your suggestion in a short, concise manner, would you post a couple paragraphs worth of mocking our front page, system, and idea for our Knights? Why couldn't you just leave it as a simple suggestion? I asked you a simple question, "what is your suggestion?" Instead I get this over-dramatized crap which amounts to me just feeling you want us to be incredibly upset with you.
Literally, your post reads like "I'm gonna give my suggestion, but let me give you a piece of my mind." It is like you want us to react negatively and aggressively towards you. I don't even understand why you feel the need to provoke me before you even make your suggestions known. In fact, it was difficult to read your suggestions for the simple fact that your first spoiler tag practically enraged me. Mostly because I felt like I was reading, and yes this is meant to be insulting, a child's complaint because college-level material is too difficult for them. Not to say that our content is incredibly difficult to understand. No, it's actually rather simple. It's even easy to find the Lore and Worldbook. It's literally the first thing that you see in the threads on the main page. You see it before you find the OOC to complain about how hard it is to find it. It is literally the only announcement on the main page.
My point, however, is why would you make me angry before reading your suggestion? Why not tag that on at the end so that I can get angry after I go "Oh, these sound like reasonable suggestions." Instead, you seem to want me to explode before I get past the first couple of lines. You're aggressive, you like to test patience, and personally I think you just like this drama, which I personally don't care for. So, please, stop trying to push our buttons, because we've let you push them quite a bit.
Now, my actual response to your actual suggestions:
1. Yeah, the homepage sucks. We literally spend all our time and resources working on what's in the guild currently rather than focusing on that homepage. We also try to keep up with posts and schoolwork because every time we, as Captain and Vice Captain, stop posting our guild magically dies. Every time. If you would like to build our homepage as it fits our lore, however, then we would surely review it and possibly use it, as we have not had time to make one.
2. Our lore is expanded through story content, and it's meant to be found by the players. Half this guild is a game. That's just part of it. More lore gets added to the lore book as time goes on. That is why this is the Lore and World Book. It has everything in it. We have a lot of content, and this is a literate to semi-literate guild. As such, we will provide literate-level content for people to use at their leisure. This is a world we have built, not something we are borrowing from some anime like other guilds. We need this massive tome of knowledge to keep the guild characters consistent.
3. I am not copying other media for our race and magic system. Period. Unless you want to suggest a magic system that you have created that is superior, then no. While characters and such are great to be based off characters from anime and inspired by them, our guild's magic was mostly molded, by hand, by me and Weeamoo. We take pride in that our guild's story, background, and a majority of its content is original with very limited inspiration, those inspirations being Fate/Stay Night, Dungeons and Dragons, and Kill la Kill in regards to the Armaments.
4. We have an NPC creation thread already for anyone in the guild to use to make an NPC for their own purposes. Most of the NPCs are also free-reign to use as well. You can find it in the profile thread. Additionally, Knights are not meant to be romantic. They're meant to be enslaved creatures that are mostly mistreated by society. If you want them to be romanticized in your character's personal story, that's fine. To most of the races of Yainder, however, they're on the bottom of the food chain.
5. Bond Abilities are only for the Knights, as it's in their profile. A Mage doesn't get to use the Unison ability, as they have magic. It's attached to the Knight's profile because that is the Knight's reward for bonding with a Mage. Sorry if you misunderstood this at any point. There are already penalties for Knights that bond with opposing Natures/Affinities. Finally, the permanence of the Knight bond is entirely reliant on the Knight. Literally, they have the most power in their "relationship" because they can end it at a moment's notice. That is why we literally state that a Mage has to treat their Knights well or risk losing them. This is not some anime where the bond level increases so they get a new magic weapon like Negima!? or something like that. Knights get what they get, and they can get more through playing our RNG system in the Unexplored Region which has, for the most part, gone untouched by our members.
Now what are the rest of your complaints so I can address them? I agree with you on the homepage, and I'm willing to work with you on Magic if you can provide a custom, better system for it.
