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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:07 pm
Vintrict Thanks for proving my point. When you have to make several paragraphs to an actual thread of posts on how to make a perfect character just to lower the amount of revisions a person MAY go through in the profile phase, then you might as well drop it altogether. Simple is the best way. No person, experience or new, is going to read that. Even if they do, they won't do exactly as you want them to. You just made HoH go back to the stone age. "Perfect character" is pretty chincy, there's a broad spectrum available but we will expect people to adhere to certain ranges in a variety of categories. They can read those simply structured posts and save themselves the trouble + better translate it to their team, or they can have their characters rejected 30 times and ultimately still not grasp how to translate their character properly even after they're accepted. [ Ryugi: Bastards nerfed me into uselessness..! Even though.. I'm stronger than any other participant.. naahhgggg..] It does nothing but benefit. If 3 of 30 people read it, I've made the process better for 3 people and therefore justified the effort put into it. The only reason people see little need to heed such matters here is you put no stock into better defining what's kosher. You handle it long after the fact when it becomes a problem. So instead of people remembering what is right/wrong for GTB, they only know "I wonder what the ******** Vintrict's thinking now." I'd actually dare you to ask several GTB veterans if they think they can design a character with a decent assortment of powers and get it into GTB on the first try with 100% certainty. Most, being honest, would probably tell you "I'm unsure." Because you don't clearly translate your intentions, your changes in what is acceptable, etc. year to year. And that's aces, it's the draw to GTB IMO. "COME SEE WHAT THE MAGNIFICENT VINTRICT THINKS NEXT"
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:09 pm
Vintrict The Thunder Tyrant But that requires you to actually grade profiles, and to do it with the point of balancing them. I stopped reading there. When your return argument is that you think the judges aren't doing this job anyway, then there's no point in continuing. Go make your own tournament. Then you can have the most perfect profile system ever! The hilarious thing is, I don't "think" it. You outright told me as much when you admitted that you let people in without completely balancing their profiles. That's the literal definition of not doing the job, when you go to do the job and then don't do it. If your job is "grade profiles to balance them" and then you go "nevermind, I'll let someone in with a system I think is imbalanced" then that's a pretty exact definition of not doing the aforementioned job. Because, quoting verbatim: Vintrict I also don't inform people on how they fight with their characters. I don't tell them "If you're going to use boxing, I better see some legit tactics that are used in boxing." If I see something that doesn't make sense, like someone throwing a hook and trying to say it was as fast as a jab in the relative sense against an opponent with equal competence and reflexes, I'll say so in my comments. It's not my responsibility for people to keep up with this knowledge. It's not your job to balance profiles, apparently. inb4 ubuhbuhbuh some BS that doesn't matter, anyone can go back and look at the discussion where I say "your job in profile grading is to balance the profile" and you respond with "no it isn't" because, according to you, people are already supposed to know this stuff, "even if it isn't in their profiles." Meaning you aren't grading profiles to balance, because you're letting people in with imbalanced s**t on some inane premise like "Even though their profile describes it as overpowered, I'll let it in because they'll obviously use it differently than described for no readily apparent reason." So if it's not your job, and you didn't do it - by your own admission on both counts - then how is it that now it's invalid to use this fact as a point of reasoning? Stop tripping over your own statements in an effort to backtrack for five seconds. I don't "think" it. You said it. There's no point in continuing because you can't even keep your story straight for more than a few days at a time, and apparently you'll sooner call yourself a liar than admit that you don't do s**t like you ought to. Last time we discussed this you said you didn't grade profiles to balance them because players were supposed to know this s**t. Now you're saying you DO grade them with the intent to balance. You can't do both. You do one or the other. Also, I already have the perfect profile system, or as perfect as anyone's going to get in freeform like Gaia: it's called actually grading the profiles with the intent of balancing them and not withholding information from my players. Or lying to them.
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:13 pm
The Thunder Tyrant Also, I already have the perfect profile system, or as perfect as anyone's going to get in freeform like Gaia: it's called actually grading the profiles with the intent of balancing them and not withholding information from my players. Or lying to them.Now let's not get carried away! Lying is a beautiful tool.
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:14 pm
The Female of the Species http://70sbig.com/blog/2013/02/meet-the-man-who-squats-905-raw/ Damn. The fact that he does it without having to grind out the rep at the bottom is ******** insane. Most powerlifters have to really push to get it back to rack. Pretty sure he can squat 1000+ raw if he wanted to. Then again, he oughta be able to, with those ******** tree trunk legs.
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:15 pm
There's three judges. Aside from me, the other two are likely to change each year. Their views change. Mine may change simply because I can always improve my perspective on balance. I'm getting there, but I haven't yet. But the one view that comes with GTB is "it's a melee-orientated tournament where you will face people with powers and weapons. Sometimes supplementary. Other times, being the primary arsenal." I probably could add like this sentence or something similar and it'll say the same thing as "Street Fighter, King of Fighters, etc." No need for five thousand paragraphs.
Your method still doesn't work. No one is going to perfectly get in every single time. There's never a guarantee of it. With the other two judges, too, it further makes it nearly impossible. I rather there be revisions, anyway. I don't care much for the speed of grading as it is making sure nothing abusive gets into the tournament straight off the bat. All your method does is increase the reading length of people who are looking through the rules. The best strategy, actually, for entering in your ideal view of a profile grading system would be to make a profile or take one I already had, submit it, get all the judge opinions back, then fit it to what they said. Rinse, repeat.
There. You just wasted most of your time writing up that article. These 3 people who got in on the first try, I'm sure you're proud of them. But it didn't make the process significantly simpler for anyone. That's why idealistic views like that suck.
@Darth: zZzZz
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:16 pm
I just got out of jail. They took the new bag of pot I bought...
POLICE SUCK.
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:18 pm
Simple solution: DON'T BUY POT.
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:23 pm
Lord Haelstrom Now let's not get carried away! Lying is a beautiful tool. Only if you can do it without getting caught, though. Also, yeaaaahhh bought a ticket to go see Volbeat, even though I don't really listen to them because 25 dollars for a ticket and cheap beer yeeaaaah. Wooo.
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:27 pm
Vintrict There's three judges. Aside from me, the other two are likely to change each year. Their views change. Mine may change simply because I can always improve my perspective on balance. I'm getting there, but I haven't yet. But the one view that comes with GTB is "it's a melee-orientated tournament where you will face people with powers and weapons. Sometimes supplementary. Other times, being the primary arsenal." I probably could add like this sentence or something similar and it'll say the same thing as "Street Fighter, King of Fighters, etc." No need for five thousand paragraphs. Right, or you can write 5,000 paragraphs in structured manner that's CTRL+F'able and really nail that s**t right in the butt. I mean yes, there'll always be a massive gray area where you'll just have to wing it (judge and participant wise), but I shouldn't as a participant ever have to guess about basic principles. It should be somewhere, in writing. Or, if there's a potential issue with my profile, it should be zeroed in on during grading. The only issue there at HoH is we had several different rotations of judges grading, so there was a distinct disconnect in standards between each rotation. Easily remedied going forward, I genuinely underestimated the chances of DIABLO MONK getting in with Fist of the North Star powers, but the fact remains a majority of what's kosher should be accessible by players at all times, not guessed at darkly. You also have a tendency of making sweeping on what is acceptable mid-tournament. At least in the past. Quote: Your method still doesn't work. Yeah huh! cool Quote: No one is going to perfectly get in every single time. Not "perfectly?" But I mean, after the (ironically) Ryugi-made "How to HoH" video, the slightly redefined codex, etc. -- the past year, most participants got in with very minor revisions needed. Oh of course, there were nightmare entries that just needed ******** axed, but the ratio of that to surprisingly easy to remedy profiles was surprising. Comparing it to previous years of HoH (and having access to the records to look at that), I'd say it definitely yielded results. Quote: There's never a guarantee of it. With the other two judges, too, it further makes it nearly impossible. I rather there be revisions, anyway. I don't care much for the speed of grading as it is making sure nothing abusive gets into the tournament straight off the bat. All your method does is increase the reading length of people who are looking through the rules. The best strategy, actually, for entering in your ideal view of a profile grading system would be to make a profile or take one I already had, submit it, get all the judge opinions back, then fit it to what they said. Rinse, repeat. There. You just wasted most of your time writing up that article. These 3 people who got in on the first try, I'm sure you're proud of them. But it didn't make the process significantly simpler for anyone. That's why idealistic views like that suck. Your badness is profound Mr. V. Again, it's not just for the rare "I get in off the bat" entries, it's to help reduce the number of revision iterations needed, and to help the player better understand why they had their character altered. If we get someone in but they're grumbling going "why was I reduced to nothingness.. horrible tournament..." --- then we dropped the ball somewhere, or they're Ryugi and they're ******** insane, but come on. Not everyone's got the Ryugin Spirit. So if no one reads it? Okay, I wasted like an hour. Sucks. People do read it? Sweet, it can literally only benefit. And this is just erroneous "how to" stuff, where you really drop the ball at GTB IMO is in your grading system. Again, it's not perfect at HoH, I'm going to take a crack at regulating it more next year. But, the grading here lacks proper review. Said review can be: -Modular. -Help participants better where they failed. -Reduce complaining. -n** conflict or confusion in the bud. -Entertaining. -Presenting a more unified vision of what you, Vintrackt, feel is appropriate. ...what you do here instead, is give a few numbers and then a short sentence or two at the end and that's all folks. Leaving you to (often out of context and in a disorganized way) argue out your viewpoints here until it makes your p***s angry and you have to bust out the ban button while chanting "MAKE YOUR OWN TOURNAMENT THEN IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, WERHHRHRG" There's nothing idealistic about it. It's plain fact one's superior in quality and, at worst, will yield minor positives.
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:27 pm
Vintrict There's three judges. Aside from me, the other two are likely to change each year. Their views change. Mine may change simply because I can always improve my perspective on balance. I'm getting there, but I haven't yet. But the one view that comes with GTB is "it's a melee-orientated tournament where you will face people with powers and weapons. Sometimes supplementary. Other times, being the primary arsenal." I probably could add like this sentence or something similar and it'll say the same thing as "Street Fighter, King of Fighters, etc." No need for five thousand paragraphs. Says nothing about armor or powers that provide armor, force-fields, debilitating status effects, remote binding techniques, close-range homing techniques, armor-piercing techniques, whether accessory equipment can act independently, etc. etc. etc. etc. But you can cover that and more in a lot less than 5000 paragraphs. You just have to be not stupid and not lazy.
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:27 pm
Also, ahwhawhawhaw. You got caught.
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:30 pm
It's impossible to catch me lying because I don't lie.
I'm like George Washington. Except not as cool. Because GW is pretty cool.
I say "is" rather than "was" because I'm pretty sure he's still alive, just biding his time in some Presidential lair deep beneath the White House.
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:37 pm
*ignores rules*
*submits profile*
There. I just destroyed your entire profile process. Have fun grading!
That's my point.
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:39 pm
Grim Skies Says nothing about armor or powers that provide armor, force-fields, debilitating status effects, remote binding techniques, close-range homing techniques, armor-piercing techniques, whether accessory equipment can act independently, etc. etc. etc. etc. But you can cover that and more in a lot less than 5000 paragraphs. You just have to be not stupid and not lazy. Except for that tiiiinnny little section at the bottom of the rules. Even then, I cannot speak for every permutation of ability that a person can possibly think up. But that's why we have profile grading. You know, that one little thing that is actually absolute.
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:40 pm
I already addressed that though. Again, if people don't check it, alright, at most I'm out of an hour of my time.
If two people do, I justified doing it, as that exponentially saved time regarding future round gradings, since they have a better knowledge of what's "right."
So unless you're like.. an immensely lazy Jew, there's really no drawback.
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