|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:28 am
James doesn't gain energy when using special attacks lol.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:43 am
I'm going to preface this post, 'cause I don't want you to take it the wrong way and I know I'm pretty generally an a*****e, but that's not the intent here: I'm not criticizing you, your character, or your playstyle. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the first two, and I've never fought you nor judged one of your fights so I've no room to comment on the third. I'm just using the fight/powerset as a context to examine this year's profile judging. Counting her armor proc and RP abilities, she's use 27ish abilities over around 24-25 posts, I just took a rough count (although I could be off, multi-tasking a phone call so feel free to correct). So at least an ability per post, and her abilities aren't something to snub. Sometimes even multiple abilities within a single post. Ability use per post, her ratio is pretty well beyond what most characters are capable of. It's not shown in the bottom of the post along with the other stats, so does this ability use not fatigue her, or have any limit to how often it can be done in a singe match? Does she ever.. run out of runes? And she has some degree of preternatural strength, as well as weapons, as well as fairly good armor? And her drawbacks are +holy damage and a weakness around the spine and/or skull? Like I said, I'm not criticizing you. This issue isn't with you, it's with the profile grading. Let me make a couple of examples to show the problem, using the systems for Deitric, Tres, Aetyra, and James. Example: In your fight with Fier, if I counted correctly, Aetyra used somewhere around 5-6 abilities in a row, one per post, for 5ish posts straight. So that's six abilities back to back to back to back to.. etc. Whereas Vintrict told me that the ability to use TWO abilities back to back - that is, one per post, so post 1 ability 1, post 2 ability 2, was overpowered, despite this feedback being applicable any time Deitric does so: Quote: Feedback Three: Deitric uses two standard abilities back to back. In return he suffers burns across a much broader area (hands, arms, face, neck), is 75% deaf for two posts, mildly disoriented (dizzy, still combat-capable but somewhat off-kilter) for one post, and will be on a forced CD that cannot be shortened for two posts, and does not overlap with his usual CDs/wind-ups. Standard 10% decrease in resistance. So, according to Vintrict: A system where someone goes across six posts using six abilities with no feedback, no drawbacks, and only a cooldown system: A-OK. A system where a person uses two abilities back to back in exchange for deafness, self-damage, dizziness, and increased cooldowns is unfair. Another example: Vintrict told me that passive charging was a no-no multiple times, that you could not charge while fighting, and that you HAD to use a prep system. Okay? Let's look at James, Aetyra, and Tres. James has a passive-gain system, an activated ability to passively gain at an increased rate while standing still, and can hold up to 15 charges in contradistinction with the rules that state a person can only hold 5. James's system also has no drawbacks, in that he really doesn't get any feedback from being low on points, or for using too many attacks too often. Aetyra's rune system has no prep, only internal CDs that affect individual runes, and by using one ability set she builds energy for the other, which means she can attack and build energy at the same time, which, suffice to say, isn't passive, but also doesn't require her to just stand about and charge up. No drawbacks, fatigue, or limit aside from CDs and RP cost/build up, right? Tres starts with 15 points to spend. That is a finite amount, he cannot gain points passively or actively. The majority of his abilities cost 2 points, with the maximum being around 5 for some abilities. For example: the ability to create 3 pounds of crystal - which isn't an attack in and of itself - costs four points. The lowest cost ability that can be used as an attack is crystal shard, which basically makes a throwing knife. It costs 1 point. So if we go with an average of two, Tres can use about 7 two point abilities and a single one point ability in a single fight, and if he hits 4 points or lower he has to deal with a debuff. So, 20ish ability uses for Aetyra in a single fight, versus.. somewhere between 3ish and 15ish if Tres just wanted to manifest fifteen knives. I could keep going, but do you see where what I'm saying here? Look at what Vin let James and Aetyra in with in terms of how their power sets work, and look at what he tried to force Tres to work with, or what he told me wasn't allowable. The disparity is pretty ********' considerable. There's a pretty obvious issue, and it boils down to either Vintrict being the literal, living definition of inconsistency.. or being biased against certain people. Normally not even I'd write as much as I just did, but if I'm going to make a point, then I'm going to make it as completely and clearly as I can. Again, this is nothing against you, Sigil, or Fier, or you guys' characters. The fault doesn't lie with you that these inconsistencies exist in profile grading.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:46 am
EDIT: *snip*
Darth has it more or less correct, with the exception that any damage to her skeleton of any kind is devastating.
EDIT 2: Her runes are carved/branded into her axes. If she isn't in possession/the immediate vicinity of them, they can't be used. Other than that though, they can be used off cooldown.
Runic Power is stored in her body, so that any residual power remains even if both axes are taken away.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:03 am
Reading back, there are several times where she got interrupted so the claimed strikes never actually happened. I think the longest chain she has was right at the beginning with 4, one per post.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:04 am
Yeah, I wasn't sure how everything worked with Aetyra, since I don't have her profile on hand. I have Tres's, James's, and Deitric's profiles, but I had to extrapolate pretty much everything I just described solely from what you've told me or from what I saw in your posts, so there was some guesswork involved.
But I think it's safe to say that there are definitely some issues with how profile grading went, when you sit down and actually look at this stuff. One person gets in with the ability to use two dozen abilities in a single fight.. another is forced to nerf their system until they can barely use a half-dozen abilities, most of which are utility.
That's not the degree of disparity we should be seeing.
EDIT:: Ah, I didn't read every post, I was going by the stat blocks on the bottom for a rough estimate. Even so, there's still kind of an issue here with how profiles got graded.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:08 am
Let me channel Vintrict here for my prediction of his official response:
"lol"
Then he'll disappear from the thread for another five hours or so, come back to make a one or two line comment on an irrelevant link someone posted.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:10 am
I'd let it go if Vintrict just sat down, explained to us that he ******** up and acknowledge what he did wrong...
but no...
He won't ever do that.
So I'm gonna keep on grinding this point home that he has absolutely no concept of balance at all.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:11 am
I think (and this is merely speculation) that the reason for this is two-fold.
A) Vintrict felt that the ability to create matter, and in almost any shape desireable, was extremely strong and felt that it gave Tres the ability to counter everyone by simply selecting a weapon that could properly defeat the one his opponent was using. Further aided by his considerable skill at martial arts, and tremendous strength, plus his varied utility powers, this made for a character that could literally counter anything thrown at him. In a way, I personally at least partially agree with this.
B) He felt that the limitations on my abilities were enough, because none of them are useable without the axe except Icy Touch. So to actually have any of my abilities do something, they not only have to hit, but they have to score a solid, flesh-cleaving blow with that specific axe.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:15 am
Sigil Warden I think (and this is merely speculation) that the reason for this is two-fold. A) Vintrict felt that the ability to create matter, and in almost any shape desireable, was extremely strong and felt that it gave Tres the ability to counter everyone by simply selecting a weapon that could properly defeat the one his opponent was using. Further aided by his considerable skill at martial arts, and tremendous strength, plus his varied utility powers, this made for a character that could literally counter anything thrown at him. In a way, I personally at least partially agree with this. He made Tres much physically weaker. I'm surprised he didn't say Tres couldn't be that good at grappling AND at striking at the same time. but yeah, but even so, he might be able to use like 3 powers before shooting himself in the foot. So thats one weapon change. One utility power and a throwing knife.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:20 am
You mean he bans me again for pointing out where he lied about what he allowed and disallowed into the tournament. He told me "No passive charging." Let's Fier in with that exact thing. He told me "You have to use a prep system, you can't use a CD based system." He lets Sigil in with that exact thing.
That's not even inconsistency. Pretty sure that constitutes deliberate lying.
Sigil: That would make sense, except that Tres is limited to creating only 3 lb of crystal, and it only lasts for 2 posts. 3 lb of crystal is a sword, or an axe. It's not even a breastplate, helmet, or really worthwhile shield. And it costs 4 points - 4 points in a fifteen point system that deals feedback at ~4 points? That's two crystal creations, he does the third and he's hit with a brick for it. So he makes.. a sword and a spear and he's done with that ability. So not "almost any shape desirable." Just any shape that can be made with 3 lb. He can't even make a door or a wall or a pillar.
And your abilities are, honestly, a lot more potent than anything Tres has in his arsenal because they're raw offensive powers and they have procs ontop of them, and they can be used multiple times within a post, back to back to back multiple times. They're tied to her axes.. but they're axes. Axes do plenty of damage as is already. For example: Tres makes an axe and hits you with it. You're hit with an axe. Aetyra uses an ability and you're hit with an axe that causes increased damage and some sort of proc'd effect like a disease AND gives her power for a secondary list of abilities. See the difference?
And both Tres and Aetyra are stronger than average for their size/build.. so that's kinda a wash for both, although it's telling that Aetyra got in with it and Tres did not.
That's a huge disparity. Like I said, it's not your fault. Or Fier's. Or Tres's.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:21 am
The Thunder Tyrant You mean he bans me again for pointing out where he lied about what he allowed and disallowed into the tournament. He told me "No passive charging." Let's Fier in with that exact thing. He told me "You have to use a prep system, you can't use a CD based system." He lets Sigil in with that exact thing. That's not even inconsistency. Pretty sure that constitutes deliberate lying. Sigil: That would make sense, except that Tres is limited to creating only 3 lb of crystal. 3 lb of crystal is a sword, or an axe. It's not even a breastplate, helmet, or really worthwhile shield. And it costs 4 points - 4 points in a fifteen point system that deals feedback at ~4 points? That's two crystal creations, he does the third and he's hit with a brick for it. So he makes.. a sword and a spear and he's done with that ability. So not "almost any shape desirable." Just any shape that can be made with 3 lb. He can't even make a door or a wall or a pillar. Those weapons would only last for two post. For two post.Quote: And your abilities are, honestly, a lot more potent than anything Tres has in his arsenal because they're raw offensive powers and they have procs ontop of them, and they can be used multiple times within a post, back to back to back multiple times. They're tied to her axes.. but they're axes. Axes do plenty of damage as is already. And both Tres and Aetyra are stronger than average for their size/build.. so that's kinda a wash for both, although it's telling that Aetyra got in with it and Tres did not. That's a huge disparity. Like I said, it's not your fault. Or Fier's. Or Tres's. We all know who's fault it is. We are simply discussing why it is their fault.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:23 am
I can even tell you about what was nerfed on my profile during grading. I was forced to defang my diseases significantly (originally they only had one stage that out-classed even the current advanced forms) and asked to place a cooldown on Death Coil, asked to clarify under what conditions she gained Runic Power, and to greatly increase the cost of Chains of Ice (it was originally 15). Minor edits after that were for clarification on her resistances, strength, and fatigue.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:24 am
He could make a permanent weapon out of his mind blade, but that still requires power points to take it from its orb shape into anything. So that's still like 4 points out of 15 (Or 9 without debuffing self).
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:31 am
Hm. I think that the number of power points you were allowed to have should have been more like 30-40.
Still, I can understand the indignation, but in all fairness I expected similar levels of power across the board. Originally I just assumed Tres was being whiny because psions tend towards being broken as ********, but judging from the other characters, Aetyra is literally way out of their league. Interesting that she got pitted against the two people that could stand up to her right off the bat, then.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:32 am
Well, like I said, it's not really an issue with your character. The issue is with profile grading. One character gets in with the ability to use a dozen or more fairly solid abilities in a fight, often back to back with no drawbacks, and another character is nerfed until he can barely use five abilities without shooting himself in the foot.
That's... not how profile grading is supposed to go. With the exception of people willfully coming in underpowered, you're supposed to try and give everybody an equal playing field, in as much as you possibly can. You don't create disparities, you minimize them.
EDIT:: No one's blaming you, Sigil. Like you said - you assumed everybody was getting in at a roughly similar power level. I mean, that's a fair assumption, it's the entire point of profile grading, and even so, no one really has any idea what anyone else is entering with or what they're accepted with.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|