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 Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:10 am
As a work around, i think I might just make another low level puppet, maybe like level 30. 20 pts to create and 10 points worth of uses. This way I can chakra focus, and still have another turn to attack. Then focus my stats around chakra focus and chakra for awhile.
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:38 am
Guys you really need to read the combat system. I'll say it again, focusing is NOT free. Sora_Low I read that as the puppet takes your attack action, not the entire turn. Though now that I read over it, when it says gets his normal turn given, I should have taken that as the full turn. IDK, I got confused. In the combat system it declares you're attack phase can consist of several options of which you can only perform one. (This includes things like focusing, activating ANY sort of jutsu or item, stealthing, etc). You're puppet or you take your attack phase, if you focused and then had your puppet attack you'd be making 2 choices and thus require 2 attack phases which you don't have. If you have 2 puppets, the second gets it's own attack phase. The reason? It's simple, puppets allow the user to remain stealthed and not be harmed while attacking. Granted an Ally Item or Summon can function in the same manner while still not taking your attack phase, however an Ally item is substantially weaker, and a summon drains your chakra extremely fast. Think about it, if this wasn't the case why wouldn't people be focusing every single turn if it didn't take up their attack phase? The description of attack phases in combat pulled from the rules: Quote: Attack Phase:After you perform your payment phase you move onto your attack phase. Don't let the name of this phase fool you there are many things you can do during this phase but generally speaking you always either: A) Activate a Jutsu. B) Use an Item and loose a "use" from it in doing so. C) Focus your Chakra and gain Chakra equal to your focus statx10 D) Attempt to Flee E) Attempt to Grapple or Perform another unarmed attack F) Release an ally from a de-buff G) Attempt to Disarm or H) Pass.
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:51 am
Well, now that, that misunderstanding is over, I suggest Sora go choose which action he wants to take. The one with the puppet or the focusing. Since I'm more then sure he'd never focus in this situation where he can finally attack.
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:02 am
I suppose I see the mechanical way that makes sense. Though like I said, I still dont see how it is possible for someone to control 2 puppets, focus, and tell the seccond to attack, but impossible for someone to control 1 puppet, focus, and tell that puppet to attack. In both situations, you are commanding A puppet and focusing at once.
But, for the sake of the system I guess some things just arent going to always make sense.
Just tell me if I am supposed to delete the attack or not. Meanwhile, I am gonna go swimming and think about a new setup. Puppets arent really going to work for me right now since I can only take two turns if I have two puppets, (which there is no way that I will have the chakra to sustain for very long). A decent level puppet by itself is hard enough for me to sustain alone. I dont think ill be fighting anymore until my chakra damn near doubles lol. Levelx5 is a lot of chakra to sustain per round. I can only imagine levelx5 + levelx5. Id be depleated before I even got a chance to fight. (especially if my opponent stealths on me) Which means that right now, Im gonna have to focus less on my PC and more on Chakra and INT(to help my stealth checks).
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:10 am
Sora_Low I suppose I see the mechanical way that makes sense. Though like I said, I still dont see how it is possible for someone to control 2 puppets, focus, and tell the second to attack, but impossible for someone to control 1 puppet, focus, and tell that puppet to attack. In both situations, you are commanding A puppet and focusing at once. But, for the sake of the system I guess some things just arent going to always make sense. Just tell me if I am supposed to delete the attack or not. Meanwhile, I am gonna go swimming and think about a new setup. Puppets arent really going to work for me right now since I can only take two turns if I have two puppets, (which there is no way that I will have the chakra to sustain for very long). A decent level puppet by itself is hard enough for me to sustain alone. I dont think ill be fighting anymore until my chakra damn near doubles lol. Levelx5 is a lot of chakra to sustain per round. I can only imagine levelx5 + levelx5. Id be depleated before I even got a chance to fight. (especially if my opponent stealths on me) Which means that right now, Im gonna have to focus less on my PC and more on Chakra and INT(to help my stealth checks). You can delete the attack or the focusing, just choose one. As for sense it's simply for game balance. It is... but puppets don't have the insane activation cost of summons, nor do they have half the stats you have like allies gimping them. There's pro's and cons to every type of assistant effect out there, puppets happens to be needing more than one to really be effective (or in your case being able to have it essentially keep you un-attackable while it fights). Summons: ---Pros: ......Full Stats ......User can stealth while Summon fights ......Stats can be buffed to make it stronger than user ---Cons: ......High sustain cost to make effective ......Very high activation cost to make effective ......Has no Chakra so drains users Chakra further when using Jutsu. Allies: ---Pros: ......User can stealth while Ally fights ......Has own Chakra meaning they can use jutsu and survive longer than most other things. ---Cons: ......Has half users stats, they can be buffed to 90% of the users, but would still be substantially weaker (not to mention costly). ......Has uses meaning limited number of actions Puppets: ---Pros: ......User can stealth while Puppet fights. ......Full Stats ......Immune to Genjutsu ......Ally using buff in turn buffs both the ally and the puppet for just one activation and one sustain cost. ......Immune to de-buffs that apply to rolls unless they effect the user. ......Puppets can aid each other ---Cons: ......Takes users turn, two required for extra turn ......Costly to sustain ......User getting de-buffed de-buffs both user and puppet for just one activation and sustain cost. ......Puppets can only use Taijutsu
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:16 am
Sora_Low I suppose I see the mechanical way that makes sense. Though like I said, I still dont see how it is possible for someone to control 2 puppets, focus, and tell the seccond to attack, but impossible for someone to control 1 puppet, focus, and tell that puppet to attack. In both situations, you are commanding A puppet and focusing at once. You could think of it like this: With one puppet, you have to stay hidden and stay concentrated on what the enemy is doing, so there isn't an opening for you to safely focus on your chakra without calling back your puppet for a moment. With two puppets, you can keep one attacking, and one 'guarding' you while you focus.
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:02 am
InuVash255 Sora_Low I suppose I see the mechanical way that makes sense. Though like I said, I still dont see how it is possible for someone to control 2 puppets, focus, and tell the seccond to attack, but impossible for someone to control 1 puppet, focus, and tell that puppet to attack. In both situations, you are commanding A puppet and focusing at once. You could think of it like this: With one puppet, you have to stay hidden and stay concentrated on what the enemy is doing, so there isn't an opening for you to safely focus on your chakra without calling back your puppet for a moment. With two puppets, you can keep one attacking, and one 'guarding' you while you focus. Thats highly situational. Example being, if you were rprically no where near the opponent, if both you and the opponent were both in stealth. etc. But I get what dbl is saying now, some things are for the functionality of the system. Which I accept.
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:51 am
:Sweat: DBL, I see your point, wolf explained it, along with yourself.
@ Wolf thank you for your understanding of the situation. biggrin
Eh Sora, since Ele is advising you at the moment, I would just ask him what he would do in this situation or even possibly ask wolf as he is in fact the highest puppeteer we have within the guild.
I'll assist*? you in any possible way, considering your in quite a tight spot with chakra, Though.... seeing as your using a puppet, I wouldn't mind too much on unrasional stats, (Seek wolf or ele to determine which stats you'll least need.)
then pick up on the one's you'll need most, Like chakra, stamina and Taijutsu/Ninjutsu stats?
any ways the entire confusion is done and understood. I typically thought a person was a puppeteer while the puppet did the dirty work thus giving the puppeteer two turns instead of a single Attack or defense/regroup phase of tactics.
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:01 am
DBL,
I might have just remembered something in which brought this up in the first place,
during my fight it was Jin & Sora vs Washi.
during the fight If I recall correctly both Jin and Sora took a turn to auto focus and then take their turns.
Now I'm not sure if this is aligned with the current situation it could be in fact the misunderstanding to the concept.
I'll have to double back on my posts and look, I will confirm and make a post answering my recallings.
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:09 am
Nobody is at fault here,
but yes Sora & Jin for some reason were allowed to make Auto focus and then begin their assult.
I do however understand how a puppet works though,
A person's actions is dirrected stricktly to the puppet and thus given a awareness check that would only grant the puppet view of their enemies.
with that said a second puppet would be needed to enforce an offensive strike.
Now since Focusing takes a turn, no matter how many puppets the puppeteer had, they would have to guard themselves with one turn and then focus with another turn.
just as vash stated, Puppeteer < Puppet > Puppet
one would act as a defense as the other would be set to rest as the puppeteer would then signal his focusing phrase.
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:27 am
Azien, basically what happened was. There was an oversight. It was allowed simply because it went unnoticed. Where as in the current situation, it was noticed because it was done in the exams and multiple mods where checking it + Zavits pointed it out.
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:33 pm
yay for conflict resolution?
I was confused by something else xD
how does he get a reflexive check against stealth? It wasn't like he was standing beside Hatsuma and saw her run off, she was already Hiding and then disappeared. so I'm just tryin to figure out how he got a 'reflexive' check against something that logically isn't 'reflexive' O.o
I'd like that explained for the sake of my poor sanity lol
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:53 pm
the only thing I was uncertain of was the stealth check(action taker or not)
I knew that focusing took a round in terms of attack action since it's listed in the actions. when Sai said it wasn't an action I was all like well I'm gonna be done for sure. it's nice to know I can still deal with my current methods :3 though those kunai are still going to kill me I know it D:
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:35 pm
darklord_avalon yay for conflict resolution? I was confused by something else xD how does he get a reflexive check against stealth? It wasn't like he was standing beside Hatsuma and saw her run off, she was already Hiding and then disappeared. so I'm just tryin to figure out how he got a 'reflexive' check against something that logically isn't 'reflexive' O.o I'd like that explained for the sake of my poor sanity lol Simply put because the rules state you do. He's looking around trying to find him WHILE he's doing something else. You don't just sit there peering around, there's a chance instead you spot them and have time to attack before they can, if the action wasn't reflexive there would be no way to do so. Instead we'd have "stealth", enemy turn "awareness successful", your turn "stealtH", enemy turn "awareness successful", your turn "stealth" etc They'd never be able to do anything if awareness took a turn to do because you could always attempt to re-stealth. If you fail the awareness check then yes, you sat there doing nothing more than likely (since you didn't attack, you might have focused or been bandaging yourself up while looking around you, but you couldn't attack them)
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:33 pm
OOooh okay thats why. makes sense to me now thank you DBL.
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