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 Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:57 pm
The Thunder Tyrant ..lol. Fight judges - like the UFC - aren't that biased. They have a very strict rubric they follow that helps determine their scores. Example: a successful takedown that your opponent doesn't immediately get up from will usually earn you a point. There's some bias, but their system is way more objective than any roleplay tournament. The only time you get really subjective is like.. freeform gymnastics and ice-skating. But the judging for UFC, boxing, etc is designed to marginalize bias, and unlike roleplaying, it's usually pretty clear when one fighter gets an advantage. It's mostly because a usual bias that goes on in those competitions is what counts as a good score: outfighting or in fighting? Aggression or defensive? Aggression has been a favorite over the years, but it use to be defensive, making outfighting more rewarded if you last all the rounds. Another subject was about who did the most damage despite the different number of punches, or if enough punches weren't thrown. Cornering has also has been under controversy and what counts as wit and just plain inferior skill. It's why I don't try to put anything in concrete down about that. It's graded on the person's performance in the fight, their roleplay, and how they confront the situations as their characters, as they are presented.
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:57 pm
Vintrict You know what else is biased? Fighting sport decision by judges. They don't have to explain anything. You get your scores and judgments, and be done with it. It's less "is it biased?" and more "does it appear biased?" When you can substantiate the "why" of your scores (I prefer calling them reviews IMO), it just looks more like you put effort into it than slapping down numbers and shifting them based on who you like more. Is it necessary? Nah. Definitely good though. I mean everyone and their mother knows Ryugi loves me. We're BFFs. But to several people's surprise and his, I said he won his fight with Athan and gave detailed reasons why. Ideally, he could've applied those positive elements to his future fighting, creating less headache inducing fights and improving the roleplay as a whole for all involved. Ideally because I don't even need to tell you that imploded. cool But, had I not reviewed him and just gave numbers, there'd been two confused people wondering why two judges said Guy A won and one judge said Guy B won. Had you given more insight into why KB did so poorly in a certain year for example, you'd not ran into a brick s**t-wall of "wow, two judges said he won, Vintrict said he lost so hard, biased Vintrict" -- you'd simply been agreed or disagreed with and that'd been the end of the day. Instead you were quiet. You let numbers talk. Numbers can't convey very much. And every fight can see someone improve, whether it's areas they can work on or things they can avoid. Even tiny fights.
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:57 pm
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:59 pm
It's a majority decision system this year, so the obligation for comments on everything is less. If at least two people thought you did well, you go on.
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:59 pm
Vintrict Majority of what scores roleplay is subjective. lol. Its funny because I could have the best fight possible in the eyes of the majority of people. but it wouldn't mean a damn.
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:01 pm
One last thing: the difference between a UFC judge or what have you and a roleplay judge is the medium. They can let real world analysis and observation do a lot of the work for them.
Here, in the written world, you're in a plane of words. You have at minimum two people with entirely different perspectives of.. everything.
If you don't balance out that difference to explain who fared better, they typically learn nothing except spite for who judged them. And unless this is the final GTB, ....it's counter-productive for future iterations.
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:01 pm
Vintrict Comments are not required. We could easily just post points and say who we thought won and be done with it. Secondly, this is a competition. You're not going to always get stuff on what to improve. You learn it yourself and you learn it through your fights. We judges point out the obvious, but we don't point out everything else. If I score someone a 2, that means their roleplay was standard and reasonable, but not worth a 3. A 3 means you got me immersed and everything made sense. If I were to add another sentence to your review, it would be pretty much "Your roleplay was good, but not worth the top score." I don't know how you're going to get a 3. It's why we can never quantify the perfect girlfriend or the perfect video game. I won't know it until it's thrown at me out of the blue. What about my RP didn't make sense? I mean, it was all pretty simple and straight forward, and I was told that at no point did it seem out of place. Pretty much what you're telling me is that you'll give 3s to the people that decide to suck you off either in PM or MSN.
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:03 pm
Vintrict It's a majority decision system this year, so the obligation for comments on everything is less. If at least two people thought you did well, you go on. Which is great and I'm legitimately glad you went with it since it's just a fair system in large, but doesn't solve the fact you're putting in less and getting more for it. Less effort, more complaining. And always will unless you address this. lol I'm not saying write out essays on why My Little Pony chick writes poorly, I'm saying note a few of the major elements that in your view, awarded her that score. You have content to write down, you obviously thought it up when reviewing the fight since it determined the # you gave her. Know what I mean? Put those magic fingers to work and type 'em down.
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:05 pm
Vintrict It's mostly because a usual bias that goes on in those competitions is what counts as a good score: outfighting or in fighting? Aggression or defensive? Aggression has been a favorite over the years, but it use to be defensive, making outfighting more rewarded if you last all the rounds. Another subject was about who did the most damage despite the different number of punches, or if enough punches weren't thrown. Cornering has also has been under controversy and what counts as wit and just plain inferior skill. It's why I don't try to put anything in concrete down about that. It's graded on the person's performance in the fight, their roleplay, and how they confront the situations as their characters, as they are presented. A person's approach to a fight only affects the scorecard inasmuch as how effective it was. People get their scores shot for being passive because they're not utilizing their out-fighting or mobility effectively. People don't get points for being aggressive if they jump into an in-fighting situation and get the s**t walloped out of them for it. The reason aggression is often awarded isn't because of bias, but because successful, consistent aggression shows that you're the one setting the pace. That's control. Like I said, bias = minimal. Same thing with wrestling. Wrestling has very little bias. In no way comparable to any system ever used by roleplay tournaments; the analogy doesn't work because a) they're way less capable of showing bias and b) their scoring methodology is way more strict in that how points are awarded is generally much more objective than broad categories like "roleplaying." You can't be like "Oh they're biased too" because their methodology has mechanisms in place to successfully minimize bias in nine out of ten situations. In a roleplaying tournament, the only thing you can do is a) hope the rubric is detailed enough to keep someone from manipulating it and b) trust the judges to do a good job. So in the context of a roleplaying tournament.. it really boils down to personal performance as a judge. It's way more performance-based than being a judge for an MMA fight or wrestling match, because the minimization of bias has to come from us, not from a rigid system designed solely to keep subjectivity to a minimum.
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:06 pm
Dear Princess Molestia What about my RP didn't make sense? I mean, it was all pretty simple and straight forward, and I was told that at no point did it seem out of place. Pretty much what you're telling me is that you'll give 3s to the people that decide to suck you off either in PM or MSN. I have a sneaking suspicion that Vintrict makes s**t up as he goes along and your roleplay doesn't actually matter. I can't look at my fight, so I can't be sure that this is the case in my case. However, he listed off two things that I am very sure that I either didn't do or he misread. I think people sucking him off also may have something to do with it.
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:06 pm
Dear Princess Molestia Pretty much what you're telling me is that you'll give 3s to the people that decide to suck you off either in PM or MSN. I'm sorry I can't hear you over this delicious black c**k in my throat.
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:07 pm
I don't know why you guys are wasting effort on him, honestly. You know Vin doesn't concede he's wrong, period.
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:07 pm
Don't lie Sigil, he's only got a 1"er.
I'd know, I made a character based off him, Fierach, and Cog combined. It's my business to know these things.
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
Destructive Forces I don't know why you guys are wasting effort on him, honestly. You know Vin doesn't concede he's wrong, period. This is also true. I think thats why I wasn't that concerned about it yesterday but I think Molestia has got me all riled up. However its true, Vintrict will not, under any circumstance ever, admit that he was wrong or that he makes mistakes. I think thats the biggest reason why so many people dislike him.
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:09 pm
Lord Haelstrom Don't lie Sigil, he's only got a 1"er. I'd know, I made a character based off him, Fierach, and Cog combined. It's my business to know these things. Holy crap man, are you trying to cause the world to implode?
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