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 Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 3:31 pm
sheepofdarkness Quinn+hisQuill This is probably digressing from the point but how theologically important do you think Hell is? I would say not at all. I consider myself a pragmatist; so I only value things that affect me in this life. What happens after I die is of no concern. The most that Hell can do before death is scare someone into living a good life, and there are better reasons to walk the straight and narrow than fear of damnation. Mm, agreed. Isn't there a passage that goes along the lines of, "A man gets praise for his actions, but the Lord see the motives,"? Edit: Proverbs 16:2 maybe? This question dawned on me when I realised that Hell made fewer scriptural appearances than Heaven. Perhaps a little flippant but it makes one think. Well, it made this one think.
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Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:30 am
sheepofdarkness Quinn+hisQuill This is probably digressing from the point but how theologically important do you think Hell is? I would say not at all. I consider myself a pragmatist; so I only value things that affect me in this life. What happens after I die is of no concern. The most that Hell can do before death is scare someone into living a good life, and there are better reasons to walk the straight and narrow than fear of damnation. I disagree with this concept vehemently. Faith as fire insurance has been used throughout time as a means to ramrod "heathens" into converting. What kind of a person is made from fear of his inmost thoughts and beliefs? A person who has already lived in hell, living his life in punishment and shame.
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Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:36 pm
Lila Malvae sheepofdarkness Quinn+hisQuill This is probably digressing from the point but how theologically important do you think Hell is? I would say not at all. I consider myself a pragmatist; so I only value things that affect me in this life. What happens after I die is of no concern. The most that Hell can do before death is scare someone into living a good life, and there are better reasons to walk the straight and narrow than fear of damnation. I disagree with this concept vehemently. Faith as fire insurance has been used throughout time as a means to ramrod "heathens" into converting. What kind of a person is made from fear of his inmost thoughts and beliefs? A person who has already lived in hell, living his life in punishment and shame. It may have been used as an aggressive evangelical tool but that doesn't mean it is the only tool, or that it is a good tool, or even an acceptable tool. I think Sheep summed it up quite succintly in their last words... Quote: and there are better reasons to walk the straight and narrow than fear of damnation.
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 11:11 pm
Lila Malvae sheepofdarkness Quinn+hisQuill This is probably digressing from the point but how theologically important do you think Hell is? I would say not at all. I consider myself a pragmatist; so I only value things that affect me in this life. What happens after I die is of no concern. The most that Hell can do before death is scare someone into living a good life, and there are better reasons to walk the straight and narrow than fear of damnation. I disagree with this concept vehemently. Faith as fire insurance has been used throughout time as a means to ramrod "heathens" into converting. What kind of a person is made from fear of his inmost thoughts and beliefs? A person who has already lived in hell, living his life in punishment and shame. If you define "hell" as the punishment and shame that comes from sin as well as all the negativity that comes in a life without God, then I guess offering Christianity as an escape from hell does make sense. But if hell as I am defining it is a destination of ultimate torment in the afterlife (the opposite of heaven), then hell is unimportant. Also, I agree with Quinn. Who conveniently agrees with me.
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:04 pm
Quasi Intellectual Hell. A place of eternal torment and pain- or so they say. If this place, does, indeed, exist, it would have to get old pretty darn fast. I mean, after a few millenia, you'd be immune to pain. Used to it. So, for Hell to be actually painful for all of time, it would have to increase ALL THE TIME. And that just doesn't seem very fair to newcomers, does it? Thoughts? I'm still trying to figure out what exactly Hell accomplishes... I understand the point, I guess, but I'm completely missing why it needs to go on for all eternity.
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:26 pm
xxVampireMagickxx Quasi Intellectual Hell. A place of eternal torment and pain- or so they say. If this place, does, indeed, exist, it would have to get old pretty darn fast. I mean, after a few millenia, you'd be immune to pain. Used to it. So, for Hell to be actually painful for all of time, it would have to increase ALL THE TIME. And that just doesn't seem very fair to newcomers, does it? Thoughts? I'm still trying to figure out what exactly Hell accomplishes... I understand the point, I guess, but I'm completely missing why it needs to go on for all eternity. Surely not everybody can go to Heaven. Hell is for those that are excluded.
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:14 pm
Anarchist Miracle Mallorys Wedgie Friend sheepofdarkness Mallorys Wedgie Friend I think the whole concept of God being omnipotent and being able to do whatever he damn well pleases would kind of over-ride your concept. How? And how do souls in eternal physical torment "please" God? I never said that he was pleased by doing this... it was a colloquialism (sp?). Anyway, the fact that, if we are talking about most Gods, that are omnipotent "creatures", or whatever you'd like to think of them, would allow them to defy physics, psychology, and reality in general. So, you say that we would eventually become accustomed to the pain of hell, well, if God wanted to, he could just make it so that accustomed feeling to pain, misery, torture, etc. goes away, and once again, we're being tortured again. I was talking about the Christian God specifically, and why would he want humans to feel physical pain? What does He gain? That would be more of a question for those who wrote the Bible. I say, that of course, because I don't believe in God. Anyway, I would imagine that God would want us to feel pain because he wants to understand that we have sinned, etc. Remember that it does say that God is all loving, however, it never says he won't use "tough love", so to speak, to show his love.
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:59 pm
Mallorys Wedgie Friend Anarchist Miracle Mallorys Wedgie Friend sheepofdarkness Mallorys Wedgie Friend I think the whole concept of God being omnipotent and being able to do whatever he damn well pleases would kind of over-ride your concept. How? And how do souls in eternal physical torment "please" God? I never said that he was pleased by doing this... it was a colloquialism (sp?). Anyway, the fact that, if we are talking about most Gods, that are omnipotent "creatures", or whatever you'd like to think of them, would allow them to defy physics, psychology, and reality in general. So, you say that we would eventually become accustomed to the pain of hell, well, if God wanted to, he could just make it so that accustomed feeling to pain, misery, torture, etc. goes away, and once again, we're being tortured again. I was talking about the Christian God specifically, and why would he want humans to feel physical pain? What does He gain? That would be more of a question for those who wrote the Bible. I say, that of course, because I don't believe in God. I say it would be more of a question for those that insist on a literal interpretation of certain parts of the Bible. Mallorys Wedgie Friend Anyway, I would imagine that God would want us to feel pain because he wants to understand that we have sinned, etc. Remember that it does say that God is all loving, however, it never says he won't use "tough love", so to speak, to show his love. "Tough love" in all the incarnations I have ever seen means using pain to teach something. Once the lesson is taught, there is no more need for the pain. Whereas Hell is defined as an eternal punishment, and any understanding gained from it is completely inapplicable.
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:43 pm
Anarchist Miracle xxVampireMagickxx Quasi Intellectual Hell. A place of eternal torment and pain- or so they say. If this place, does, indeed, exist, it would have to get old pretty darn fast. I mean, after a few millenia, you'd be immune to pain. Used to it. So, for Hell to be actually painful for all of time, it would have to increase ALL THE TIME. And that just doesn't seem very fair to newcomers, does it? Thoughts? I'm still trying to figure out what exactly Hell accomplishes... I understand the point, I guess, but I'm completely missing why it needs to go on for all eternity. Surely not everybody can go to Heaven. Hell is for those that are excluded. Why not? I would be able to understand Hell a lot more if it weren't final, but it is. I see no reason to punishing someone permanently. Either let them change, or get rid of them, but torture for all eternity serves no purpose whatsoever.
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:28 am
xxVampireMagickxx Anarchist Miracle xxVampireMagickxx Quasi Intellectual Hell. A place of eternal torment and pain- or so they say. If this place, does, indeed, exist, it would have to get old pretty darn fast. I mean, after a few millenia, you'd be immune to pain. Used to it. So, for Hell to be actually painful for all of time, it would have to increase ALL THE TIME. And that just doesn't seem very fair to newcomers, does it? Thoughts? I'm still trying to figure out what exactly Hell accomplishes... I understand the point, I guess, but I'm completely missing why it needs to go on for all eternity. Surely not everybody can go to Heaven. Hell is for those that are excluded. Why not? I would be able to understand Hell a lot more if it weren't final, but it is. I see no reason to punishing someone permanently. Either let them change, or get rid of them, but torture for all eternity serves no purpose whatsoever. And how exactly would you get rid of the ones that will not change?
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:39 pm
Anarchist Miracle xxVampireMagickxx Anarchist Miracle xxVampireMagickxx Quasi Intellectual Hell. A place of eternal torment and pain- or so they say. If this place, does, indeed, exist, it would have to get old pretty darn fast. I mean, after a few millenia, you'd be immune to pain. Used to it. So, for Hell to be actually painful for all of time, it would have to increase ALL THE TIME. And that just doesn't seem very fair to newcomers, does it? Thoughts? I'm still trying to figure out what exactly Hell accomplishes... I understand the point, I guess, but I'm completely missing why it needs to go on for all eternity. Surely not everybody can go to Heaven. Hell is for those that are excluded. Why not? I would be able to understand Hell a lot more if it weren't final, but it is. I see no reason to punishing someone permanently. Either let them change, or get rid of them, but torture for all eternity serves no purpose whatsoever. And how exactly would you get rid of the ones that will not change? we make a pie out of them!!! : D no, actually, I think that hell does have a point... at least Christianity's terminal hell... you see, like they said, what about those who won't change? What do we do with them? You need someone place to keep control of the undesirables... at least from a Christian's point of view.
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:04 pm
Mallorys Wedgie Friend Anarchist Miracle xxVampireMagickxx Anarchist Miracle xxVampireMagickxx Quasi Intellectual Hell. A place of eternal torment and pain- or so they say. If this place, does, indeed, exist, it would have to get old pretty darn fast. I mean, after a few millenia, you'd be immune to pain. Used to it. So, for Hell to be actually painful for all of time, it would have to increase ALL THE TIME. And that just doesn't seem very fair to newcomers, does it? Thoughts? I'm still trying to figure out what exactly Hell accomplishes... I understand the point, I guess, but I'm completely missing why it needs to go on for all eternity. Surely not everybody can go to Heaven. Hell is for those that are excluded. Why not? I would be able to understand Hell a lot more if it weren't final, but it is. I see no reason to punishing someone permanently. Either let them change, or get rid of them, but torture for all eternity serves no purpose whatsoever. And how exactly would you get rid of the ones that will not change? we make a pie out of them!!! : D no, actually, I think that hell does have a point... at least Christianity's terminal hell... you see, like they said, what about those who won't change? What do we do with them? You need someone place to keep control of the undesirables... at least from a Christian's point of view. Then I must ask what the purpose of keeping them alive is? Throw them into the darkness, into the furnace, and let them die.
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:23 am
Mallorys Wedgie Friend no, actually, I think that hell does have a point... at least Christianity's terminal hell... you see, like they said, what about those who won't change? What do we do with them? You need someone place to keep control of the undesirables... at least from a Christian's point of view. "Undesirables?" Are we talking about the creatures that G*D created? The ones that G*D understands and loves unconditionally? Are these the ones that deserve ETERNAL punishment which serves no end other than keeping them away from the perfect people 'upstairs'? Okay. Now I'm really glad to be a Jew, and not have to think of my fellow human beings in this way, and not have to worry about heaven or hell because we don't believe in hell and don't concern ourselves with heaven.
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:31 pm
Divash Mallorys Wedgie Friend no, actually, I think that hell does have a point... at least Christianity's terminal hell... you see, like they said, what about those who won't change? What do we do with them? You need someone place to keep control of the undesirables... at least from a Christian's point of view. "Undesirables?" Are we talking about the creatures that G*D created? The ones that G*D understands and loves unconditionally? Are these the ones that deserve ETERNAL punishment which serves no end other than keeping them away from the perfect people 'upstairs'? They don't deserve it until they die. Until then, they are capable of repenting and becoming one of "the perfect people upstairs." Until then, they are desired both by God and by Christians. Quote: Okay. Now I'm really glad to be a Jew, and not have to think of my fellow human beings in this way, and not have to worry about heaven or hell because we don't believe in hell and don't concern ourselves with heaven. And I'm glad I'm a Christian, so I don't have to worry about entering Heaven or Hell either. Please don't turn this into a "my religion's better than yours" thing.
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:45 am
I've never claimed my religion was better than anyone else -- I only claim that it's better for me than one that involves hell. If your religion is better for you, then I'm happy that you're in yours and I'm in mine.
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