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Could you explain how that many vampires could possibly live with that few humans without destroy the whole of society?

(Good for you Holly.)
(Dinner time, for I am hungry.)

infighting, canabalism, not killing your food source, various powers comign into play.

((Under the assumtion that 1/30 vampiric are actual vampires and 1 vampire needs to eat 1 person each month. Vampiric refers to those under influence as well as those who are vampires, puppets and puppeteers. canadian statistics are used becasue I dont' know where to find american))

Not really. Infighting would hastening the destruction of the humans. Canabalism only works so far as to keep one vampire alive by destroying others, which would decrease the populations (as more fledglings and ghouls would be created to replace the lost unless it was a culling of the weak, in which case, you still would not reach the high percentange because the scale of the violence would directly impact the cities ability to function on a day to day basis. Consider that gang wars usually consist of a significantly smaller percentage of the population, and mofia style business are even smaller in number than gang numbers, infighting tremdously visible unless these small numbers were maintained.)

If one vampire needs to eat one human every month to stay alive, he eats 12 people a year.

So, if there is one thousand vampires who all wish to stay alive by eating people, they eat 12 thousand people a year.

If there is a city of 300 000 people, with 30 000 vapiric, ( 1 000 vampires), they eat 12 000 people each year. That is 4% of the population of the city eaten by the vampires each year.

Let us assume the ones they eat are caculated into the Death Rate of the city, which averages out in Canada to be 7.1%. If the Vampires are eating 42.25% of the dead, they are already figuring in as epidemic level catastropy. The magority of the population decimated by the Black Plague, in either Bubonic or Pnuemeric forms, was around ten percent of the population of a given area, every 30 years or so...

But, if the percent of vampiric deathis is in excess of the average deaths 11.1% of the population is dying each year... Roughly, one person for each of the vampiric....

this could easly be covered by the birth rate, which is roughly 11% in canada, which means that the city would bare brake par if not lose population...

Of course,. that is assuming that 1 000 vampires are eating one person every month... iF they eat two, you will notice that you eat roughly 24 000 people a year, or 3 for 36 000 people...

The only way to sucessfully hide the loss would be to have the vampires only eat one person every other month, to cut the loss down to 6 000 people, or if you could get them to go several months without eating... then you could get to 2000-3000 people per year. Which of course, would be negligable loss on the population.

Or, if for every 300 ghouls, there is one vampire, which roughly puts you at 300 000 humans, 30 000 of them ghouls, and 100 vampires.

100 vampires eating 1 person a month would be 1200 people a year, which is completely write offable.

So, for a population of 300 000 you could have 100 vampires unnoticed. 3000 to 1 humans to vampires. with a sub catagory, 10 to one human to ghoul.

[New York city with 8M people could support a vampire population of 266 666.6667]

Blood banks were only started after the second world war, which means that the significant rise in vampire population would have had to occur in the last fifty years, which places the majority of the vampires in the unruly fledgeling category...

The number of elders would have been limited by the population basis of the European and Asian cities for the last few thousand years... So, realitively few. The little ice age and the black death would have caused a dramatic shift in the population that would make the vampires need to be in small numbers, which means that many of the younger ones would have to have been killed in order to hide in the medieval society...

Considering that the population curve did not jump until the advent of industrialization, and then again at penisilin and then again at... 1950-2000, the majority of vampires could not be older than 100-120 with most of that no older than 50 years (the invention of blood banks)

in other words, you could have one vampire older than 120 years for roughly... every 100 cities if that.

Then again, you could always argue that the vampires turnedd docters to ghouls and used them to 'bleed' people to stay hidden, as that was a common medical practice for a very long time.

Besides, why would it matter if they found vampire saliva on the corpse, they would not have the necessary DNA signiture to compare it to in order to identify the vampire, on top of that, why do vampires have saliva? to have saliva would incure that the vampires still produce the bacteria in their mouths that a living person creates, and that they have the necessary functioning glands in order to produce the stuff... Which means that they have a working biological body, which means they need actual food to survive in order to get the necessary nutrition to keep muscle and tissues alive?

So wouldn't that just make them crazy and long lived humans who practice ritualized blood drinking?

heh nah. as for saliva..as far as vampires can study themselves..the production of saliva and tears of blood are pretty much the only 'living' elements left to thier bodies. they don't digest food, thier hearts don't beat unless the actually make them, the don't breath unless they make themselves. Most acount the quirky things to some mystical or cursed aspect of the vampiric blood, as there's no way to autopsy a vampire to find out...well...supposed maybe you coudl try to do it on one still 'alive' but try and set that up woudl be a real issue.

according to other stories though, the way many elder vampries that are aroudn now woudl survive is somethign called Torpor. it's like a comatose state, usually gone into while in an isloated area and they kinda of 'leapfrog' through time. much like Viktor in teh movie Underworld. This is also why many elders use ghouls to kind of 'reattach' themselves to the modern society they wake up in. after all, you go to sleep isn 1776, and wake up in 1996...you got a lot of catching up to do. easier to get someone form teh age to kinda of help you through and fill in teh blanks. this method was shown in Interview with a Vampire, Armand's offer to Louis. needing someone to 'reflect' the age to him.

Ancients, in teh 900-1000+ range, often hone thier telepathic abilites or metaphysical skills (astral projection) to allow them to remain safely locked away in Torpor while thier ghouls and childer and servants maintain thier affairs for them.

not at all. he can say what he want's to in your next post in the house smile

no. I am forcing sense in something that makes non to me.

Does magic keep their bodies from decomposing? And if not, do they posses new bodies to get the orgins back? If not, they don't have orgins?

Unless Torpor prevents the complete decomposition of the bodies, they can't survive long in that slumber without destroying themselves.

Even so, if Torpor can really increase a vampires' power, why doesn't everyone do it to increase their power? is it because there is a chance you wont wake up? Or is it from the fact that they really die?

Saliva is not just moisture like tears. tears are water. saliva contanies mucus and enzymes that actual food is required to make.

I am trying to figure out what exactly makes a vampire a vampire and not human?

So far, they live longer, and eat each other... canabalism was practiced by societies with low access to protien, so I dont think eating humans counts as a quilifyer.

A vampire has access to magic... Why do they get it and humans don't? (if they cant)

A vampire lives in an elaborate secretative society, like the Stonemaisons... Err.. no luck there..

Violence is comone amongst humans...

A question of existance more than a question of how...

(Incase you have all forgotten, or didn't bother to read, I do have a vampire character who is a vampire. Perhaps, I am just trying to find out what the world is really like... as the decription did not produce this image of Vamporia.)