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 Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:04 pm
A pretty emotional Debate. . .
Northern Ireland has been under British government longer than most of our lives combined. As a result, Protestant churches have appeared across the land, and the IRA was put into action.
Elizabeth ll had released the information that when the time is right, Ireland can have complete independence if so it wishes, but what will become of "London Derry" and how will the residence of Ulster react?
Is releasing Northern Ireland a good thing or a bad thing? Why?
*How do you feel about the way the Protestants treated the Roman Catholics long ago? And even now in certain places?
* A pretty touchy subject, and you don't have to enter it if you don't want to.
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:08 am
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:51 am
♔ Well, of course 3/4 of Ireland is free. (The Republic of Ireland.) But not Northern Ireland/Ulster.
Ulster is still being held as British land under England. Instead of euros, they use pounds (which say "the bank of England" on every one).
The IRA has recently put down their guns and signed a peace treaty with England, I do believe - but there are different branches of fake "IRA"
which the IRA is now not accountable for. These branches are fighting constantly in Derry as a war ground.
In the songs you've included: --- Before 1:20 in The Boy's of the Old Brigade - I quote: "That Ireland might be free."
(Sorry I'm so intense here, lol! This is a personal topic, and I love debates and debating in debates, lol!) xD
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:18 pm
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:10 pm
♔ O.o Sorry about that~!
I'm really too intense in here, I need to knuckle down! >.<
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:40 pm
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:52 pm
I say yes, it should be released, as Queen Elizabeth said... When the time is right.
This was handled very diplomatically, and paved the way for a natural progression. Once all the bitterness has calmed. I may not have the emotional connection those from Ireland do to the situation, but I don't think that's a hinderance. It always me to be more pragmatic about it. And that's the way we should look at this.
All that has to happen is for everyone to agree "The fighting's done" and have no resistance from the other side. And they aren't ready for that now, but the hatred natural dissipates with every generation.
Or am I off track?
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:49 pm
♔ Yes, but - after all that England and the Scottish and the rest of the British had done to Ireland?
♣ They banned the Irish against speaking their own lauguage; and they killed anyone who continued to speak it.
♣ Scottish (and English) soldiers were sent to 'monitor' Ireland, and killed for no good purposes.
♣ After releasing the information that the United Kingdom was to release 3/4 of Ireland, Irish men and women danced in the streets and rejoiced. Then, the "small, unnoticed print in the back" came to play as the British soldiers marched up towards the north. --- Giving Northern Ireland / Ulster to the UK was not part of the negotiation.
As a result, the Irish language is now considered a dead lauguage; and more than 68% percent of the world does not recognize this language's existence. In a larger result - Northern Ireland to this day is in the fist of the UK.
The Queen is very 'courteous' and 'gracious' to give word that England with be giving back 1/4 of a country back to it's people "when the time is right." She'll defiantly be given credit to read out those words to the Irish in her time of Queen. "Queen Elizabeth the Kind." But that isn't the point, now, is it? Point is - whether or not Elizabeth meant those words, or read them for publicity. Also, whether she was smart to read them out as she did. "When the time is right" ? Dear God, Elizabeth - WHEN will the time be right? The British has held Ireland (4/4 and 1/4) [much] longer than america had been discovered. Is that not long enough for her?!
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:08 pm
A_n_n_a ♔ Yes, but - after all that England and the Scottish and the rest of the British had done to Ireland?
♣ They banned the Irish against speaking their own lauguage; and they killed anyone who continued to speak it.
♣ Scottish (and English) soldiers were sent to 'monitor' Ireland, and killed for no good purposes.
♣ After releasing the information that the United Kingdom was to release 3/4 of Ireland, Irish men and women danced in the streets and rejoiced. Then, the "small, unnoticed print in the back" came to play as the British soldiers marched up towards the north. --- Giving Northern Ireland / Ulster to the UK was not part of the negotiation.
As a result, the Irish language is now considered a dead lauguage; and more than 68% percent of the world does not recognize this language's existence. In a larger result - Northern Ireland to this day is in the fist of the UK.
The Queen is very 'courteous' and 'gracious' to give word that England with be giving back 1/4 of a country back to it's people "when the time is right." She'll defiantly be given credit to read out those words to the Irish in her time of Queen. "Queen Elizabeth the Kind." But that isn't the point, now, is it? Point is - whether or not Elizabeth meant those words, or read them for publicity. Also, whether she was smart to read them out as she did. "When the time is right" ? Dear God, Elizabeth - WHEN will the time be right? The British has held Ireland (4/4 and 1/4) [much] longer than america had been discovered. Is that not long enough for her?!
But the thing is, it's not when the time is right for England. It's when the people of Ireland and Northern Ireland decide. There is still too much fighting between factions in Ireland to just "Give it over." However, we are seeing the beginning of the end to the conflict. Laying the groundwork for a gradual re-unification is the logical way to do it. As far as the past crimes, the Irish in America do not hold the American Government responsible for the blatant segregation. Holding on to past prejudice is the exact thing that will keep unification FROM happening. We all know what the English did. Nobody can excuse it. We know that there is still injustice today. Well, at least those who live in Ireland or have family there, or at least pay attention to the news know this. But can you deny that things have gotten better with each generation? I see unification as happening within our life time.
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:59 am
No, Ulster should not be released. In a 2007 poll 66% of the people of Ulster expressed a desire to remain a part of the United Kingdom ( Source [Wikipedia cites sources, and so is a valid source]). The people of Ulster have a right to decide the fate of their territory. If they want to remain a part of Great Britain, they have the right to make that choice. Until a majority of those who live in Ulster vote to become a part of Ireland, Ireland should not get the territory. I'm sorry, but Ireland has absolutely no right to Ulster, and any attempt to gain control of the territory is just as bad as invading another nation. This decision needs to be put solely in the hands of the people of Ulster. Ireland and the United Kingdom should stay out of it. It isn't their place to decide what happens next.
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:07 am
Re-Unification, however, is still inevitable. Ulster, Ireland, and England all need to realize that. England already has, and is doing what it can to prepare for a peaceful transition. Ireland is too.
I'm back and forth, however, on whether or not it will happen in my lifetime.
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:17 am
I understand that. I just get kind of annoyed with the Queen's whole thing about how Ulster will be released when the time is right. It's like she thinks she somehow has the right or ability to make a decision that only the people of Ulster should be able to make. That's also what annoys me about the IRA and similar groups. They don't acknowledge the right of the people of Ulster to decide the fate of their own ******** nation. Re-unification will happen, but it needs to be when Ulster decides the time is right, not when the Queen decides the time is right, and not when Ireland decides the time is right. That is the only moral way to go about this.
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:32 pm
Sahandrian I understand that. I just get kind of annoyed with the Queen's whole thing about how Ulster will be released when the time is right. It's like she thinks she somehow has the right or ability to make a decision that only the people of Ulster should be able to make. That's also what annoys me about the IRA and similar groups. They don't acknowledge the right of the people of Ulster to decide the fate of their own ******** nation. Re-unification will happen, but it needs to be when Ulster decides the time is right, not when the Queen decides the time is right, and not when Ireland decides the time is right. That is the only moral way to go about this. But you are still missing one important point: It's politics. Not politics as in running countries, ect, but the game. If she plays it as if she had no control, we could see Chaos. Well, that might be a bit strong. Point is, she's playing the game. She's telling people what she thinks, in the manner she feels best suits the situation. If you look at how the government's run, that's pretty much all she has the power to do. The audience is not the people of Ulster. If it was, she would have said it differently.
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:43 pm
Been a while since I've been back here! >.< I love this thread~!!
@Sahandrian: I understand how you're feeling, and I feel the same way. Just remember that the queen is nothing more than a sock puppet to the English government; though. Every word she says is carefully planned to match her personality, and to voice the government's take on the current situation.
But also, unification may have been a lost cause after all. . . The United Kingdom plans to release Ulster, however-- they refuse to give it back to the Republic. Their intentions? For Ulster to break from the Republic as it's own country, completely relying on England as it had. England refuses to give us our reunification, as it would lead to a threat unto the United Kingdom, I suppose.
However, I guess it's up to the people in Ulster to decide now. If you think deep down, you'll know they wouldn't want to join the republic anyway. Only 20% of the Ulster population keeps strong ties to the Republic (last I checked), and the rest are either Scottish and English implants or people who enjoy the benefits of the United Kingdom. I imagine some will beg The United Kingdom to take them back once this settles, sadly. All I know is that the Republic is not happy.
My opinion, tsk tsk. xD
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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:18 pm
EHHHHHHHHHH WHAT DO U THINK? COURSE THEY SHOULD GIVE IT BACK. ITS ******** OURS. IMAGINE SAY..... MEXICO PUT AN ARMY TOGTHER. CAME ACROSS THE BORDER, RAPED AND PILLAGED THEIR WAY AWAY THE COUNTRY YEAH , AND THEN IT WAS UNDER MEXICO LAW. AND JUST CAUSE A FEW YEARS WENT BY , WOULD YOU'S ALL BE OK WITH THAT??????? EH NO......
THE BRITISH INVADED IRELAND... ARSE RAPED THE WHOLE PLACE, TOOK AWAY OUR LANGAUGE, OUR RELIGION, OUR MUSIC, EVERYTHING THAT WAS IRISH.... AND KILLED PEOPLE WHO DIDNT TAKE IT. THATS A LOAD OF GEE.
FAIR PLAY TO THE IRA,
I DONT CARE ABOUT IRELAND NOT HAVING THE MONEY TO SUPPORT THE 6 COUNTYS , ID LIVE IN POVERTY TO HAVE THEM BACK . SICKENS ME TO THINK THAT QUEENY C*NT OWNS THE TOP OF OUR COUNTRY.......
HOPEFULLY WITH THE WORK OF THE *SINN FEIN* WE'LL GET IT BACK IF IT TAKES BRUTE FORCE....
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