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The Moderators Of This Thread Are:
AvalonWitch
Scythe01
Selenite
`pengu nuu
Sorrow Deuna
Vision In the Darkness
LemonWarlord

Respect Them. If they tell you to stop something, stop. If they tell you to leave, leave. :3 Please and thank you.

My Points:
1. Sellers Will Increase Their Prices - AND WILL NOT EVENTUALLY LOWER THEM.
I've been Vending since before I can remember. And the market has always been the same. Once prices inflate, they never deflate a huge amount no matter what the gold sink. They inflate, they deflate slightly, then they inflate back up - higher than the original inflation.

Vendors are in it to make profit, they will simply add 2% to their prices before selling them.

There will not be less sellers on the market beacuse of the 2% tax. Almost unanimously every vendor in these threads has said that they will simply raise their prices. I've seen maybe two people say that they'll quit Gaia overall but aside from that - sellers will simply raise their prices.

BEFORE YOU SAY: "Well they'll lose MORE if they add 2% to their prices"
THINK: That's 2% they never would have seen anyway - they won't miss it, they still make their target profit. Which leads me to my second point

2. Buyers/The Less Wealthy Will Suffer
Vendors will not lower their prices because there is ALWAYS someone to buy an item, regardless of the price. If someone wants something, they will buy the item as soon as they can. They don't consider whether the prices is inflated or not. It will be up to the buyer to make up the difference, not the seller - when purchasing their items.
The Buyers are the ones that will have to make up the extra cost, the gold sink will effect them and only them. These buyers will then sell their items for inflated prices to make up their losses, or to simply make the same amount of gold as before.

3. It's Not That Much
Sure. It's not that much. If you sell a 200k Kiki they take out 4k. "Well, what's 4k compared to the 196k you do make?" The difference is FOUR-THOUSAND GOLD. For the average user that's at LEAST two hours of browsing, posting, gaming - etc. That's two hours of hard work! Not to mention the fact that the Buyers will have to spend those two hours to make up the cost, because (as said above) sellers will list their items for more and there is ALWAYS someone to buy them - Gaia as a whole will not "stop buying" just because items inflate.
And if you want to call the loss petty, go ahead. But it's still a loss. No one ever cares about how much they made they care about how much they COULD have made and how much they lost. I'd be pretty angry if I accidentally paid more for an item than I had to and it's the same with a loss.

4. This is good for the poor/Your gold is worth more!
Sure their gold is worth more - but they'll have less of it. The 2% tax hurts the little guys. Those who can afford to sell items in the 500k area don't mind losing a couple thousand here. But those selling items in the hundreds and thousands take that 2% rather harshly. It all adds up after time to a rather large loss. The poor will get poorer and the rich will get richer.

5. Use the Exchange/Trades
These are inaffectual and slow. We use the Marketplace beacuse it is quick, and easy to track.

6. You're paying for the "Convenience"
I've heard this arguement from one person in particular. I'll say the same thing here as I said to them. If MP-ers are paying for the "convenience" of using the quick/easy marketplace. Then we should be charged 50g for every PM sent. After all, the same thing could be done in the Forums but people like to speak privately and therefore should pay for the convenience of Private Messages.

7. A clear case of taxation without representation.
Taxes, are meant to go to a cause that will benefit the people. Construction of public recreational areas, highway repair, disaster relief funds, water purification - etc. This tax is benefitting no one. It doesn't decrease inflation and in fact HURTS the people that Gaia claims it will help.

If we must be taxed for using a service - then give us some form of representation! Didn't we all study the American Revolution?

The moderaters are not representatives. The only "say" we get is this thread, the Site Feedback thread and aside from a few fun item and game suggestions - i personally have seen little-to-no evidence that they are paying attention to what we have to say.

Why not make an effort to create Towns Mods? Or A Bank? Or SOMETHING that will REALLY help the people? Instead of adding new things, without going back and fixing the problems that have been plauging us for months and years?

8. Gaia Always Said The MP Was User Run - They Do Not Interfere


http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6641016

With this 2% they are going against what they said in the beginning.

9. What I Believe
Gaia has steadily been removing steady, regular ways to make gold. They have taken away polls, and even posts are reduced to 1g a post after a certain amount. Now they are taking away vending. What does this do? It drives people to "donate" to the site more - meaning more profits for Gaia as a company. But this hurts Gaia's users, the people that made it what it is today!

If Gaia really thinks that the 2% will decrease inflation - then they aren't paying attention to their own marketplace. They need to spend time there, studying it to see that IT WILL NOT WORK.

Please don't flame. If you must disagree - do so AFTER reading this thread and address the points i've made before making your own.

Edit:

10. This Is Not A Real World Economy
Those relying on real world economics to claim that the 2% tax will lower inflation are mistaken. The GAIA economy works differently. Here, it is the Sellers who have the power not the buyers. There is always someone willing and able to buy at inflated prices - and therefore the sellers are not forced to lower their prices no matter what the gold sink.

Solutions - Added As Necessary/Suggested
I believe that the idea of an expirable vending license will be sufficient to decrease inflation. Maybe every three, or six months we have to pony up a portion of the original license (500g or 250g) to continue working the marketplace. Making it 1k is unrealistic as it will hurt infrequent sellers but the portion can easily be made up - and still decreases the gold in the economy.




An excellent suggestion I hadn't even considered.

I also encourage people who agree with me to say why. 3nodding

Here is why I agree. (a quote from a previous post)

As taxes go up, it is always pushed onto the buyer.
This has been the way forever in real life and gaia.
It will only cause more inflation.
Because the people with all the really old items are already rich.
They don't need to decrease price to sell quickly, because they have the time to wait for it to sell.

You want to sell for 100K,
You lose 2K,
You sell for 102041,
You lose 2041,
You get your 100K.
Thus the buyer has to pay the difference.

THUS.....INFLATION.

Please stop arguing about taxation without representation. This is hardly a tax so much as a fee. It's one of the most laughable excuses for an anti-tax argument. The circumstances between this and the American Revolution is completely different. For starters you're on a privately owned forum.

These aren't taxes. These are gold sinks to affect inflation.

Gaia gold will be removed from the economy at a faster rate than it is entering. Inflation cannot continue to proceed after that without profit disappearing.

Definitions of Tax:

A tax is a financial charge or other levy imposed on an individual or a legal entity by a state or a functional equivalent of a state (for example, secessionist movements or revolutionary movements).

A fee charged ("levied" wink by a government on a product, income, or activity.

tax (tks)
n.
1. A contribution for the support of a government required of persons, groups, or businesses within the domain of that government.
2. A fee or dues levied on the members of an organization to meet its expenses.
3. A burdensome or excessive demand; a strain.


I think that the definitions above clearly define the 2% fee off every Marketplace transaction a Tax.

As such - completely relatable to the american revolution.

If Gaia is not a government then it has no right to regulate how we run our economy and it should own up to its promise of not interfering with the market.

There will always be a steady supply of gold, and the fact is that the less gold in the market the more things will cost. Vendors - and I know this from experience and example, will not lower their prices because of gold sink. The only people who will have to suffer will be the buyers.