Welcome to Gaia! ::

<3 </3

your stance?

ProGaia: The responsibility of managing the economy rests in our hands. 0.66129032258065 66.1% [ 41 ]
ProIntervention: It is the duty of the administrators to maintain a stable economy. 0.33870967741935 33.9% [ 21 ]
Total Votes:[ 62 ]
1 2 3 >

Origins: cries of inflation burden the ears as people continue to worry (rather loudly) "that with the prices of items now, even the sky seems closer". Concerning this issue many arguments have been made and many concerns expressed but with them have come a staggering number of simply unhelpful complaints. I have thus created this thread in an attempt to form and organize informatory defenses at both ends of the issue. The ultimate goal is that a comprehensive and living thread will shed light on user opinion and reasoning on the issue of inflation.


ProGaia:
The ProGaians generally believe that inflation is something "made by the people, for the people" and as a consequence the responsibilty of managing it rests with the users of Gaia. While they recognize that a large many number of decisions on part of the admins may have indirectly but adversely affected the Marketplace prices they also note that nothing the admins have decided on was done with the direct intention of raising inflation. The ProGaians will often overlook the risk of inflated prices on MCs if the suggested idea carries the promise of increasing purchases on the mentioned items and therefore supporting the fundsbase of the website.


ProIntervention:
Attributing much of the existing problems to actions or sometimes inaction on part of the Admins they promote user-administrator communication on a sometimes unrealistic scale but nonetheless hold true intentions at heart. Pointing to the abscense of gold sinks and the infamous '3 MC monthlies' they list causes to the approaching 3 million gold nitemare scarf, and encourage intervention on part of the administrators either in the market itself or other factors that play into it.



A random idea of my own:
I think it would be cool if located at the center of one of the town squares we could have a Town Hall in which say...once a month elected 'officials' from the Gaian Community would be able to discuss their concerns with the adminstrators of Gaia. It shouldn't be too taxing on either the part of the admins or the Gaians, and it would do much in supressing user anxiety and complaint. (problems would then fall to the shoulders of the representatives instead XD ....unless of course the mass populus began to feel that admins were only putting up the meetings for show). Perhaps there could be two officials per main categorical feature...one male, one female. Towns would be an example, Battle System another, all the other flash games in their totality, forums, Guilds, etc.
ProGaia



Defense:

-The administrators play a role in determining the course of Gaia's economy but ultimately it is the users who choose the fate of the future. For while it is possible for Administrators to implement gold sinks and the like, it is impossible for them to force the users to bring action/use to whatever anti-inflation policies they might create. (sodium)

-Inflation is a process born of increased availability and attainability of gold. What this means is that while the prices of items may rise so fast as to seem to extend beyond our reach this fact cannot be fairly attributed to inflation alone. Because since inflation is dependent mostly upon the amount of gold in the system if the prices of items rise as a direct result of an increase in the influx of gold then so too does it become easier for us, the users, to raise funds for the desired item...entirely in proportion I would think. (Armelin)

-If every item on the marketplace rose at equal rates then it is true that all inflation does is force users to type an extra 0 at the end of every purchase, with no real change to the comparative value of our income/holdings. But because there are variations to the rates at which items rise there is a benefit to those who would make wise investments, allowing for a diversified and growing economy. (Armelin)

Faults:
-
ProIntervention



Defense:

-"The people of gaia are not a single entity, they are a jumble of individuals that will each act in his or her own interest." This being the case the eventual outcome of individual gaian efforts to stop inflation will be rendered null by underlying economic circumstances which favor inflation in the minds of the masses. So yes...while it is the gaians themselves who control the market if they act by the rule of their own interest, a considerable likelihood, then is it not those who set the means of those goals the ultimate arbitrators authorities in the condition of the market? (Moondust2 cool

-It is easily within the means of the administration to control inflation. All that would need be achieved is a careful balance between influx and output of gold in circulation so as to stabilize its value.
(Moondust2 cool

-users that think to have profitted from their investments and smile at the rising price of their items in the marketplace are developing what would be only a false sense of value because most of the items in the marketplace rise in rough relation to eachother. If your holdings increase in worth by ten times, but the item you wish to buy has increased 10 times along with it, nothing has really been gained. (Moondust2 cool

Faults:
Consensus



-

Chloride's Husband

Beloved Elder

Gaia isn't like a normal economy because it lacks things like taxes and cost of living and such. ): These are the things the government control not the people.



But since Gaia doesn't have these there really is only one group that controls the economy: The users. The admin can toss their bits in, but they don't make people buy things. They bring in gold sinks but they can't force them. They release more items, but it's not a requirement to own them.
In fact, nothing here is a requirement. It's all optional. D:
Because of this, no intervention would really help the economy in any drastic way. o-o
you
I think it would be cool if located at the center of one of the town squares we could have a Town Hall in which say...once a month elected 'officials' from the Gaian Community would be able to discuss their concerns with the adminstrators of Gaia.


LOL POPULARITY CONTEST.

This wouldn't happen. An election is taking a bit too much of the real world and applying it to an online community. It's not the way gaia works. Admins have 100% control of the site. SF is the only real way there needs to be to talk with them. Anything more obligates the admins to listen to arrogant users.

Let me ask you this: Who honestly knows enough about gaia to decide what's best for it, besides it's creators? Who honestly thinks that they are worth the admin's ear on such a specific matter?

Let me tell you something. Assuming you live in America, who do you think runs the economy? Did you know that money in America is completely controlled? And it's not the president who controls it. It's not the governor. It's not a worthless elected figurehead. The real power is held by the federal reserve. They are appointed, not elected. There are no votes on what they do. Why? Because the average individual isn't intelligent enough to understand how economy really works. The decisions that the reserve makes often causes short-term inflation, but long term stability. If everything was voted on, this wouldn't be possible. People would be all for the "lower prices more money now" without looking at the consequence. That's why these things should never be based on a popular election. There shouldn't be a vote on MC's. There shouldn't be an election for people to vote on marketplace intervention. The public is out of line to ever suggest that they honestly should have any influence on these things, be it gaia or the real world.

If you honestly think the public should have any affect on economy, you've got something else coming. They don't in the real world. They don't get a vote. They'd screw it to hell if they did. The same applies to gaia.
Awiergan
you
I think it would be cool if located at the center of one of the town squares we could have a Town Hall in which say...once a month elected 'officials' from the Gaian Community would be able to discuss their concerns with the adminstrators of Gaia.


LOL POPULARITY CONTEST.

This wouldn't happen. An election is taking a bit too much of the real world and applying it to an online community. It's not the way gaia works. Admins have 100% control of the site. SF is the only real way there needs to be to talk with them. Anything more obligates the admins to listen to arrogant users.

Let me ask you this: Who honestly knows enough about gaia to decide what's best for it, besides it's creators? Who honestly thinks that they are worth the admin's ear on such a specific matter?

Let me tell you something. Assuming you live in America, who do you think runs the economy? Did you know that money in America is completely controlled? And it's not the president who controls it. It's not the governor. It's not a worthless elected figurehead. The real power is held by the federal reserve. They are appointed, not elected. There are no votes on what they do. Why? Because the average individual isn't intelligent enough to understand how economy really works. The decisions that the reserve makes often causes short-term inflation, but long term stability. If everything was voted on, this wouldn't be possible. People would be all for the "lower prices more money now" without looking at the consequence. That's why these things should never be based on a popular election. There shouldn't be a vote on MC's. There shouldn't be an election for people to vote on marketplace intervention. The public is out of line to ever suggest that they honestly should have any influence on these things, be it gaia or the real world.

If you honestly think the public should have any affect on economy, you've got something else coming. They don't in the real world. They don't get a vote. They'd screw it to hell if they did. The same applies to gaia.


well, of a sort. Were it that the representatives BECAME the adminstrators or visa versa then true, the average person isn't exceedingly capable and to be ruled by the masses would be to subject gaia to failure. However, the representatives would work more as an information gathering tool for the admins...sifting through pages and developing informed opinions on various issues with the intention of only informing+discussing their matter. The adminstrators would, after all, in no way be bound to the words of the representatives since the discussion between them would be a closed one and consequently rendered unavailable to the public eye. Essentially they'd just be 'intelligentanized' versions of the discussion forums.
I guess I should start...

I'm personally glad they're coming out with 3 MC's because while it may mean an increase in the item's rate of er...increase the opposing benefits are simply too strong to deny. In an official poll the majority of Gaians had marked that they would wish for Gaia to continue releasing 3 MC's as it allows for greater variation and choice between equipment sets. Not only this but with increasing financial burdens on Gaia due to development and bandwidth of new features the added income from increased MC donators on the triple monthlies has almost become a necessity; keep in mind that in November of last year they weren't even able to keep up with the most fundamental costs of maintaining the site. (Though the sale of December MC's seemed to compensate)
(Moondust28 from a Mule)

I think that it is more the administration that affects the economy. There needs to be a proper balance of gold entering and leaving the system. How much gold is worth isn't dependent on the users; it's dependent on how easily an amount of gold is attained. If we could each only make a max of 5 gold per day, then 100 gold would be a huge amount. But since we can make a lot, it's chumpchange. I can make it by making 3-4 posts.

Trading on the other hand is a different story, and is a reflection of an items popularity and rarity. If an item is rare, people are more likely to pay higher for it. Also usefulness. Look at inks. When they were useful (ie, mixing) they were far more expensive. Now basic inks can be bought for pennies. I recently bought 50 blue inks for 10 gold off the MP.

You cannot govern an economy if you have no access to controlling the inwards and outwards flow of currency. Also, one needs access to controlling the usefulness of goods. If uses can be made for things like flowers, they become worth more, even though there is no "real" set price for them.

To summarize my point, I think that believing gaians have a control over the economy is a fundimental misunderstanding of economics.

Chloride's Husband

Beloved Elder

Soshi Kafu

To summarize my point, I think that believing gaians have a control over the economy is a fundimental misunderstanding of economics.

But they do. The admins influence it they don't control it.
With the lack of actual needed items and multiple stores selling the same thing users are allowed to price things any way they want.
(moondust28 from her mule again)

Quote:

But they do. The admins influence it they don't control it.
With the lack of actual needed items and multiple stores selling the same thing users are allowed to price things any way they want.


How do you propose that the masses have control over eachother? Setting prices? What's to prevent undercutting? Someone is always going to undercut until the prices are stabalized at a point where there's no reason to undercut because demand is high enough for the item that it sells fast at the current lowest price.

How do you control the price of an item that's in limited quantities?

The people of gaia are not a single entity, they are a jumble of individuals that will each act in his or her own interest.

Chloride's Husband

Beloved Elder

Soshi Kafu
(moondust28 from her mule again)

Quote:

But they do. The admins influence it they don't control it.
With the lack of actual needed items and multiple stores selling the same thing users are allowed to price things any way they want.


How do you propose that the masses have control over eachother? Setting prices? What's to prevent undercutting? Someone is always going to undercut until the prices are stabalized at a point where there's no reason to undercut because demand is high enough for the item that it sells fast at the current lowest price.

How do you control the price of an item that's in limited quantities?

The people of gaia are not a single entity, they are a jumble of individuals that will each act in his or her own interest.

If you factor in supply+demand it does make sense.

Gaian A has a Coco Kitty. So does a lot of other people. A lot of people are selling at 150k. (I have no idea of their real worth) Gaian A wants to sell and sell fast, so they price it at 125k. The highest is 175k.
Gaian B wants a Coco. He goes to the MP and sees one for 125k and the next highest is 150k. So he buys the 125k one thus taking one Coco out of the equation.
The next person to search will then find the lowest is 150k, and buys that. After a while all the lower priced ones are gone and the lowest on the MP is 175k.

This is all because buying a Coco will take a Coco out of circulation, at least temporarily. So the people that price well under for whatever reason no longer have that Coco to sell, therefore the people that price higher for whatever reason become the lowest priced and best deal for a Coco.
Also, this is based on the idea that if you buy a Coco for 125k on Monday, you're going to want to at least try for a profit when you decide you no longer want it on Friday.
It's the administration that controls the supply; the users are merely consumers, unless you are suggesting that gaians can control when a bunch of people decide to sell their cocos.

Supply and demand isn't controlled by the users, it's controlled by a number of factors such as availability of the item and "desireability." A popular item isn't popular because it's voted so, it's popular because it has mass appeal.

Quick Reply

Submit
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum