frozen_water
(?)Community Member
Offline
- Posted: Tue, 03 Dec 2013 20:01:15 +0000
As many of you around the SF may have already noticed, my Popular Thread outlining the many things Gaia has done to upset the user base has been deleted. At the time of deletion it was titled: And it Burns, Burns, Burns... The -CENSORED- (Good news, Thread has become accessible again in the CB.)
I'm making this thread now because I think the reasons I was given are unfair, and I question their validity. If these reasons are even part of the ToS they are vague interpretations at best, and they put the user base at a major disadvantage because there is no reasonable way to expect users to be able to know when they are actually violating these policies.
My thread was deleted for the following reasons:
- "the appearance of purposefully causing conflict between the members of Gaia and Gaia Staff by using personal situations of other members and Gaia as a means to maintain conflict."
If you read the full explanation below you'll see that the person who notified me of my thread deletion went on to elaborate that they believed myself guilty of this because I used things like the signature deletion of another member in my OP. This is absurd to me because as far as I know there is nothing in the ToS that prohibits me from spreading information just because it did not happen to myself. I would also be more understanding of this if the events I listed were not all true. The particular issue they chose to quote me on was another user claiming that their siggy was disabled because they had images posted of the COO's presentation. This user did not have names or any other derogatory comments, just the images and a brief statement on their content.
I'm sorry, but that does affect other users. That affects anyone who has those images posted (LIKE I DID) and I needed to verify that claim. I immediately took the images down so that my thread wouldn't be deleted for said reason, but I did inquire a bit further to try and verify the claim as I didn't want to have them images taken down if I didn't need to.
I think it's ridiculous that my thread should be deleted for something like this. I had no warnings or any way of knowing this could get all my hard work and content instantly removed.
- " intentionally attempting to rile up the forum."
Really? Really? The forum was riled up because others were upset as well. It's quite possible that some users may have seen my thread as a rallying point because it was so large, but that wasn't because I actively went out and tried to promote some dissent, it's because others felt the same and shared my concerns. I can't believe that this is something that would be used against the thread. It's not like I was posting lies, or overly dramatic language to make my point. I provided feedback in a (usually calm) and legitimate way.
I'll admit that towards the end I got a bit more emotional, but I don't believe I ever crossed the line as far as actual word choice goes.
I'll also address this here as I believe it's part of what the claim was getting at:
Yes, I did ask a question on a mule. I did not entirely believe the claims that someone's signature was deleted without having any names or negative language posted along side the pictures. I wanted to test this claim so I made a mule and posted the pics in my siggy (they were even compressed images so you couldn't make out the face of the presenter) and proceeded to make a few posts to see if I got any warning for my signature.
While I was posting I ran into the same user who had claimed to have their signature deleted, and as I hadn't recieved any warnings yet and she was there I proceeded to ask her the damning question, "Could you give us a screenshot of where they told you this? I'm really curious."
I didn't ask that question on a mule as part of some conspiracy, I just happened to already be logged on to it, and the opportunity presented itself. This doesn't even address the fact that it's not against the rules to have a mule, or to post on it as long as the posts aren't voilating the ToS. I have no idea why the staff even felt the need to bring this issue up in relation to my thread deletion as it wasn't posted in the thread in question.
- "There is also the fact that your first post has turned into multiple topics of feedback, and multi-topic feedback threads are not allowed as per forum rules."
Well this just isn't true. EDIT: To clarify: Yes, there is a rule that states multi-topic threads are not allowed, but there is also a qualifier listed in the explanation that I believe applies to my thread. I also would consider several different topics (even if they are related) to be a "Multi-Topic" thread, but I'm not here to argue semantics.
From the Rules and Guidelines of this forum:
- "you state in your first post that you cannot maintain this thread"
Also not true. The statement they are responding to here was made in reference to another thread linked directly before this statement that was crossed out.
Deletion Notice:
The Original Text (with names edited out):
All of these reasons are just beyond upsetting to myself. I waited to post this because I needed time to calm down, as this was a very frustrating event for me.
I think this is something that affects all users as what rules exist, and how they are enforced is not something that is limited to my account.
My Feedback is:
If these are policies you intend to enforce, make them known to the users. I had no idea that any of these reasons could be used against me.
If these are your policies, they stink. You could accuse anyone who disagrees with trying to "rile up the forum".
I don't think it's fair for Gaia staff to use activity outside of a thread as justification for deleting a thread.
If these are not your policies, get all the staff on the same page. It's not fair to have users adversely affected by uneven enforcement of the rules.
UPDATE:
-Thread is accessible again in the CB. heart
I still fully believe this belongs in the SF, and would also like some further explanation as to to the initial deletion, for these reasons I am keeping the thread open for now.
I'm making this thread now because I think the reasons I was given are unfair, and I question their validity. If these reasons are even part of the ToS they are vague interpretations at best, and they put the user base at a major disadvantage because there is no reasonable way to expect users to be able to know when they are actually violating these policies.
My thread was deleted for the following reasons:
- "the appearance of purposefully causing conflict between the members of Gaia and Gaia Staff by using personal situations of other members and Gaia as a means to maintain conflict."
If you read the full explanation below you'll see that the person who notified me of my thread deletion went on to elaborate that they believed myself guilty of this because I used things like the signature deletion of another member in my OP. This is absurd to me because as far as I know there is nothing in the ToS that prohibits me from spreading information just because it did not happen to myself. I would also be more understanding of this if the events I listed were not all true. The particular issue they chose to quote me on was another user claiming that their siggy was disabled because they had images posted of the COO's presentation. This user did not have names or any other derogatory comments, just the images and a brief statement on their content.
I'm sorry, but that does affect other users. That affects anyone who has those images posted (LIKE I DID) and I needed to verify that claim. I immediately took the images down so that my thread wouldn't be deleted for said reason, but I did inquire a bit further to try and verify the claim as I didn't want to have them images taken down if I didn't need to.
I think it's ridiculous that my thread should be deleted for something like this. I had no warnings or any way of knowing this could get all my hard work and content instantly removed.
- " intentionally attempting to rile up the forum."
Really? Really? The forum was riled up because others were upset as well. It's quite possible that some users may have seen my thread as a rallying point because it was so large, but that wasn't because I actively went out and tried to promote some dissent, it's because others felt the same and shared my concerns. I can't believe that this is something that would be used against the thread. It's not like I was posting lies, or overly dramatic language to make my point. I provided feedback in a (usually calm) and legitimate way.
I'll admit that towards the end I got a bit more emotional, but I don't believe I ever crossed the line as far as actual word choice goes.
I'll also address this here as I believe it's part of what the claim was getting at:
Yes, I did ask a question on a mule. I did not entirely believe the claims that someone's signature was deleted without having any names or negative language posted along side the pictures. I wanted to test this claim so I made a mule and posted the pics in my siggy (they were even compressed images so you couldn't make out the face of the presenter) and proceeded to make a few posts to see if I got any warning for my signature.
While I was posting I ran into the same user who had claimed to have their signature deleted, and as I hadn't recieved any warnings yet and she was there I proceeded to ask her the damning question, "Could you give us a screenshot of where they told you this? I'm really curious."
I didn't ask that question on a mule as part of some conspiracy, I just happened to already be logged on to it, and the opportunity presented itself. This doesn't even address the fact that it's not against the rules to have a mule, or to post on it as long as the posts aren't voilating the ToS. I have no idea why the staff even felt the need to bring this issue up in relation to my thread deletion as it wasn't posted in the thread in question.
- "There is also the fact that your first post has turned into multiple topics of feedback, and multi-topic feedback threads are not allowed as per forum rules."
Well this just isn't true. EDIT: To clarify: Yes, there is a rule that states multi-topic threads are not allowed, but there is also a qualifier listed in the explanation that I believe applies to my thread. I also would consider several different topics (even if they are related) to be a "Multi-Topic" thread, but I'm not here to argue semantics.
From the Rules and Guidelines of this forum:
Quote:
If you wish to give feedback on several related topics in one thread that is acceptable.
- "you state in your first post that you cannot maintain this thread"
Also not true. The statement they are responding to here was made in reference to another thread linked directly before this statement that was crossed out.
Deletion Notice:
The Original Text (with names edited out):
Quote:
Your thread has been removed from Site Feedback due to conversations such as this:
Right now the only evidence I have is a user saying they had their signature disabled.
You can see the conversation HERE.
The issue stands at the appearance of purposefully causing conflict between the members of Gaia and Gaia Staff by using personal situations of other members and Gaia as a means to maintain conflict. This has caused threads to go into off-topic conversations, and you have also used a secondary account to ask for the information in a similar manner:
Could you give us a screenshot of where they told you this? I'm really curious.
We request that you tone this down a bit so these actions are not construed as intentionally attempting to rile up the forum. If someone has a grievance with a moderator's action then they need to contact the Staff member that spoke to them first; this information is not useful to anyone else, and this type of data collection does not assist the person that has a disagreement with said modding action. We have to be able to speak directly to them since it's all situational; there may be different reasons for removals of content. In general, this is collecting of data is being used as a tool to exasperate the readers.
There is also the fact that your first post has turned into multiple topics of feedback, and multi-topic feedback threads are not allowed as per forum rules. The best way to conduct a thread in Site Feedback is to have one specific topic of feedback and keeping the discussion from those who post on the same track as the first post. When threads get too general about feedback it becomes troublesome; members want to talk about all of them which diminishes the purpose of the thread. Gaia gauges feedback based on the topic and readers' response, so when they are all about different things it makes it hard to decipher what the feedback is really requesting.
As you state in your first post that you cannot maintain this thread, we have chosen to remove the thread from the forum due to the above. It's good to bear in mind that we would like all of our members to feel welcome to offer their opinion in a concise, constructive manner instead of being more anecdotal and misjudging the situation at hand. For the record, it's not censorship to remove signatures and threads that are being made to harass Gaia Staff. The images in question and threads/posts that have been removed are not because of the opinion within them. Rather, it's due to how they are harassing those that they intend to address.
frozen_water
User Who Posted in My Thread
About your censorship update, can I get a link as to where this can be found? I'd just to like to read it.
It's obvious why Gaia doesn't want those images circulating through their website, it makes them look more terrible than they already are. Just another attempt to sweep things under the rug. We need a better place to converse, since everything here is being censored.
Getting real sick of your s**t Gaia..
It's obvious why Gaia doesn't want those images circulating through their website, it makes them look more terrible than they already are. Just another attempt to sweep things under the rug. We need a better place to converse, since everything here is being censored.
Getting real sick of your s**t Gaia..
You can see the conversation HERE.
The issue stands at the appearance of purposefully causing conflict between the members of Gaia and Gaia Staff by using personal situations of other members and Gaia as a means to maintain conflict. This has caused threads to go into off-topic conversations, and you have also used a secondary account to ask for the information in a similar manner:
Appeal to Authority
User Who Posted in Another Thread
Yeah, they deleted my sig which contained the images. I was informed that distributing those pictures without the COOs permission was now against the TOS.
We request that you tone this down a bit so these actions are not construed as intentionally attempting to rile up the forum. If someone has a grievance with a moderator's action then they need to contact the Staff member that spoke to them first; this information is not useful to anyone else, and this type of data collection does not assist the person that has a disagreement with said modding action. We have to be able to speak directly to them since it's all situational; there may be different reasons for removals of content. In general, this is collecting of data is being used as a tool to exasperate the readers.
There is also the fact that your first post has turned into multiple topics of feedback, and multi-topic feedback threads are not allowed as per forum rules. The best way to conduct a thread in Site Feedback is to have one specific topic of feedback and keeping the discussion from those who post on the same track as the first post. When threads get too general about feedback it becomes troublesome; members want to talk about all of them which diminishes the purpose of the thread. Gaia gauges feedback based on the topic and readers' response, so when they are all about different things it makes it hard to decipher what the feedback is really requesting.
As you state in your first post that you cannot maintain this thread, we have chosen to remove the thread from the forum due to the above. It's good to bear in mind that we would like all of our members to feel welcome to offer their opinion in a concise, constructive manner instead of being more anecdotal and misjudging the situation at hand. For the record, it's not censorship to remove signatures and threads that are being made to harass Gaia Staff. The images in question and threads/posts that have been removed are not because of the opinion within them. Rather, it's due to how they are harassing those that they intend to address.
All of these reasons are just beyond upsetting to myself. I waited to post this because I needed time to calm down, as this was a very frustrating event for me.
I think this is something that affects all users as what rules exist, and how they are enforced is not something that is limited to my account.
My Feedback is:
If these are policies you intend to enforce, make them known to the users. I had no idea that any of these reasons could be used against me.
If these are your policies, they stink. You could accuse anyone who disagrees with trying to "rile up the forum".
I don't think it's fair for Gaia staff to use activity outside of a thread as justification for deleting a thread.
If these are not your policies, get all the staff on the same page. It's not fair to have users adversely affected by uneven enforcement of the rules.
UPDATE:
-Thread is accessible again in the CB. heart
I still fully believe this belongs in the SF, and would also like some further explanation as to to the initial deletion, for these reasons I am keeping the thread open for now.
