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Sahdomi's Princess

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AS OF MARCH 15TH, 2017 THIS THREAD IS NOW A YEAR OLD WITH NO ACTION ON ADMIN PART TO ALLEVIATE THIS NEED.

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Hello SF and Gaia Staff,

It's me your favorite pumpkin AKA the person who makes too many SF threads and should probably shut up but doesn't because idk.
Anyway, I'm here with a new and fresh topic: MODERATORS.

REAL TALK: We barely have any and the ones you do have are so overworked I'm pretty sure they are dropping like flies. Before, it was easy to keep the fresh blood rolling and there was a quaint circle of life. That circle of life has pretty much come to a halt and it's been the same for a while now. This does a few different things:

*Queues will get backed up. That's just a fact of life. When you have mods on several different forums and stretched thin, they'll fall behind. I don't even want to know what your hacking/scamming queues look like.

*Mods have lives outside of Gaia. Seriously, have you looked at the average age of your current volunteer staff? Most are in their late 20's and 30's and have actual lives and jobs outside of this place. This limits their actual amount of dedication to your site. You need more people with less priorities outside of Gaia to start to wedge in to the flow and help alleviate the strain.

*Your team starts to break down. People start to become resentful, fearful, stressed out, annoyed all over a volunteer position. These are all things that throw a wrench into the system. This is completely unfair to your volunteer staff that aren't paid for their work. I've seen this happen on another site, we definitely can't afford for it to happen here.

Look, I get that actual staff get paid and deal with a lot of s**t (for lack of a better term), but your moderators deal with A LOT of s**t too and deserve to enjoy the site as well. It's time for you to pay attention to their needs as well or soon enough you may not even have a team.

TL;DR: Jiminy Christmas, you need more mods. Make this a priority for the love of Gaia.

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Goosies Moosies's Husband

Grumpy Feesh

Nah, they're not all dropping like flies. Though that's only because there's something like a dozen and change though. At least, of active ones. There aren't enough to even have drop like flies.

But on a more serious note, this isn't ever going to happen. There have never been "enough" mods, even back in 2007 when the team was at about 135 total mods counting my round that had just gotten there. That was around the time where Gaia was getting towards its peak user count, etc. It was also around the time when Gaia was trying to do it all and was spending more than it could afford to. The Customer Service team is always one of the first branches in Gaia to take a hit if at all possible financially. In 2008 a number of my mentors, the remote admins, as well as even some in-house staff were let go. It happened in 2010, once again. Since then, to my knowledge, there hasn't really been much of a beefing up in the CCS team, just trimming down around the rest of the company (To be fair, other areas were hit in those years too, just that the second one pretty much put the CCS team to near bare bones already).

I say all that to say that the Customer Service side of Gaia isn't a huge priority/focus, even from the view of a normal user. Both of the aforementioned staff cuts were big deals in GCD at the time for understandably obvious reasons.

This is important because it takes a certain number of admin staff to be able to handle new rounds of moderators. Even though current moderators do the vast majority of the legwork in terms of training new mods, you still need office staff to organize it. Kind of look at it like the office staff being the managers, and the mods doing training being assistant managers. The office staff still need to devote a lot of time to the process even if they aren't personally training every single new moderator that comes in. So, just starting at the top level you have the whole financially feasible crap going on, and not enough people to make that part work. But what the hell, maybe the mods can team up and try to do something that would make their life easier, right?

Not quite. I'm gonna be frank, and not in the nicest way, which is a large part of why I'm not green anymore. There exist on the team, and always have, an unfortunate number of mods that aren't properly trained and/or that are not competent enough to be there in the first place. Part of this is due to the above mentioned lack of office staff, since reviewing a mod to see if they just made a few mistakes or they are just too dumb to stay on the team takes time. The point though is that of the bare handful of mods on the team now, there is already a chunk not fit to be wandering around off of apron strings, which means they certainly can't handle training new mods. Of the ones that can train new mods (which requires more than just being a decent/good mod), most are Global/Omni, the ones which are most stressed and backed up due to having special queue loads that include a variety of things. Assuming that they were "allowed" to stop meeting quota to keep up with the training because of how time intensive it is, there aren't very many of them. Throw in those who would actually want to train as opposed to just existing and battling queues, and you have a very, VERY limited potential trainer pool.

The team has deteriorated for years. There was always a revolving door, but as Gaia's direction changed, both at the user view level and behind the closed doors regarding moderation policy and how things in general were handled there, the mod team lost more than it gained. Hell, I lost interest as a user a good year or two before I got the boot; I had only stayed because I enjoyed the work and the team. The "compensation" they get is, for all intents and purposes, nothing. So, you're only going to really have mods who are staying there for nostalgia, because they can't let go, because "If I don't do it, who will?", status, or whatever. You aren't going to get more mods partially because a good 90% or more of potentially qualified users aren't going to put up with the crap you do being a mod. I'm not talking about user side, because that's expected. Most people who can think in the way needed to be a mod also recognize what to expect from such a position, and simply won't apply because at this point, without tangible compensation, it probably isn't worth it.

I had hoped I would never have to really feel like saying this, but unless they consider actually paying mods real life currency through some system or other, we're probably not getting more. At least, not enough to make a difference, or not enough that are competent. The company is simply not invested enough in it to give CCS the resources needed up top, and the pool of proper candidates is too small. If you had those two, the current mod team would do their damndest to make it work even with their lack of people, because the expansion would be worth it. But that's not likely to happen.

Lonely Codger

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Admittedly, I have no insider knowledge of Gaia's workings, but from an outsider's perspective, it looks like Gaia's currently in something of a self-perpetuating cycle. One of the requirements to even volunteer to be a moderator is 100 posts reported in the past six months. The problem is, there's simply not enough moderators to handle the current volume of reports in a timely manner as it is. So if you're a user, and you do report posts (especially for more minor infractions, that aren't going to be considered a priority by the moderator team), and you never see anything come of it... well, how likely are you going to be to report the next infraction you see? For example, if you see a spam post in a thread, and you report it, and it's still there a few days later, would you report the next spam post you see? Many people would just figure it's pointless to even bother, so they don't report such things... but then they might not be considered qualified to volunteer to be a moderator...

So, basically, if the moderators are too backed up to handle reports in a timely manner, potential moderators are less likely to report infractions, thus making it harder to find qualified volunteers to be moderators, and causing the existing moderators to get even more backed up, causing them to take even longer to deal with reports, making people less likely to report infractions, and on and on and on...

Eh, but maybe that's just my perception...

Sahdomi's Princess

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Gaidin
Nah, they're not all dropping like flies. Though that's only because there's something like a dozen and change though. At least, of active ones. There aren't enough to even have drop like flies.

But on a more serious note, this isn't ever going to happen. There have never been "enough" mods, even back in 2007 when the team was at about 135 total mods counting my round that had just gotten there. That was around the time where Gaia was getting towards its peak user count, etc. It was also around the time when Gaia was trying to do it all and was spending more than it could afford to. The Customer Service team is always one of the first branches in Gaia to take a hit if at all possible financially. In 2008 a number of my mentors, the remote admins, as well as even some in-house staff were let go. It happened in 2010, once again. Since then, to my knowledge, there hasn't really been much of a beefing up in the CCS team, just trimming down around the rest of the company (To be fair, other areas were hit in those years too, just that the second one pretty much put the CCS team to near bare bones already).

I say all that to say that the Customer Service side of Gaia isn't a huge priority/focus, even from the view of a normal user. Both of the aforementioned staff cuts were big deals in GCD at the time for understandably obvious reasons.

This is important because it takes a certain number of admin staff to be able to handle new rounds of moderators. Even though current moderators do the vast majority of the legwork in terms of training new mods, you still need office staff to organize it. Kind of look at it like the office staff being the managers, and the mods doing training being assistant managers. The office staff still need to devote a lot of time to the process even if they aren't personally training every single new moderator that comes in. So, just starting at the top level you have the whole financially feasible crap going on, and not enough people to make that part work. But what the hell, maybe the mods can team up and try to do something that would make their life easier, right?

Not quite. I'm gonna be frank, and not in the nicest way, which is a large part of why I'm not green anymore. There exist on the team, and always have, an unfortunate number of mods that aren't properly trained and/or that are not competent enough to be there in the first place. Part of this is due to the above mentioned lack of office staff, since reviewing a mod to see if they just made a few mistakes or they are just too dumb to stay on the team takes time. The point though is that of the bare handful of mods on the team now, there is already a chunk not fit to be wandering around off of apron strings, which means they certainly can't handle training new mods. Of the ones that can train new mods (which requires more than just being a decent/good mod), most are Global/Omni, the ones which are most stressed and backed up due to having special queue loads that include a variety of things. Assuming that they were "allowed" to stop meeting quota to keep up with the training because of how time intensive it is, there aren't very many of them. Throw in those who would actually want to train as opposed to just existing and battling queues, and you have a very, VERY limited potential trainer pool.

The team has deteriorated for years. There was always a revolving door, but as Gaia's direction changed, both at the user view level and behind the closed doors regarding moderation policy and how things in general were handled there, the mod team lost more than it gained. Hell, I lost interest as a user a good year or two before I got the boot; I had only stayed because I enjoyed the work and the team. The "compensation" they get is, for all intents and purposes, nothing. So, you're only going to really have mods who are staying there for nostalgia, because they can't let go, because "If I don't do it, who will?", status, or whatever. You aren't going to get more mods partially because a good 90% or more of potentially qualified users aren't going to put up with the crap you do being a mod. I'm not talking about user side, because that's expected. Most people who can think in the way needed to be a mod also recognize what to expect from such a position, and simply won't apply because at this point, without tangible compensation, it probably isn't worth it.

I had hoped I would never have to really feel like saying this, but unless they consider actually paying mods real life currency through some system or other, we're probably not getting more. At least, not enough to make a difference, or not enough that are competent. The company is simply not invested enough in it to give CCS the resources needed up top, and the pool of proper candidates is too small. If you had those two, the current mod team would do their damndest to make it work even with their lack of people, because the expansion would be worth it. But that's not likely to happen.

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Damn Gaidin. I know you're not saying no, but you're saying it's not going to happen if I'm reading this correctly?

I mean, that's super disheartening. It's nice to see it from a different perspective though, I appreciate you explaining it. CS seems to always be the first thing to go in online businesses though, so I'm not surprised in the least. I guess if Gaia is proud of it's 5-6 month ticket queues and god knows how long hacking/scamming queues then that's okay I guess. But if your ticket is billing related? You'll get a response in less than a few hours.

I feel you, really I do.

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O.T.L.
Admittedly, I have no insider knowledge of Gaia's workings, but from an outsider's perspective, it looks like Gaia's currently in something of a self-perpetuating cycle. One of the requirements to even volunteer to be a moderator is 100 posts reported in the past six months. The problem is, there's simply not enough moderators to handle the current volume of reports in a timely manner as it is. So if you're a user, and you do report posts (especially for more minor infractions, that aren't going to be considered a priority by the moderator team), and you never see anything come of it... well, how likely are you going to be to report the next infraction you see? For example, if you see a spam post in a thread, and you report it, and it's still there a few days later, would you report the next spam post you see? Many people would just figure it's pointless to even bother, so they don't report such things... but then they might not be considered qualified to volunteer to be a moderator...

So, basically, if the moderators are too backed up to handle reports in a timely manner, potential moderators are less likely to report infractions, thus making it harder to find qualified volunteers to be moderators, and causing the existing moderators to get even more backed up, causing them to take even longer to deal with reports, making people less likely to report infractions, and on and on and on...

Eh, but maybe that's just my perception...

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I'd venture to say you're right to be honest. I try my hardest to report things, but other things just aren't worth the time. For instance some usernames, some things on profiles, and pretty much most things in CB's cesspool are just easier for me to ignore unless they are perpetuating and encouraging hate on a user. Even then these people just make new accounts and do it more. These same people are v15+ and still here.

So yes, I get what you're saying too. Getting more mods is a slippery slope. I just wish it mattered more now today more than ever.

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Moxxic's Princess

Moon Priestess

Hey there! Thanks again for the feedback. We plan on doing another mod round soon (next few weeks here).

Anyone interested in applying can check out this FAQ.

Goosies Moosies's Husband

Grumpy Feesh

Menstrual Cramps
Damn Gaidin. I know you're not saying no, but you're saying it's not going to happen if I'm reading this correctly?

I mean, that's super disheartening. It's nice to see it from a different perspective though, I appreciate you explaining it. CS seems to always be the first thing to go in online businesses though, so I'm not surprised in the least. I guess if Gaia is proud of it's 5-6 month ticket queues and god knows how long hacking/scamming queues then that's okay I guess. But if your ticket is billing related? You'll get a response in less than a few hours.

I feel you, really I do.

What I'm saying is that you'll never have "enough" mods. In the current Gaia climate, this is true for pretty much for any realistic definition of "enough". As evidenced by a staff post a handful of hours before this one, they can state that they'll do a mod round whenever. I know that some of the mods who would be involved in training have wanted a mod round for ages. The problem is always resources. Usually the most precious ones are time and available people. Maybe they'll move someone from tickets to help a little on training, or maybe they'll just add it to their plate. I know how things used to work, and I doubt certain basics have changed much, but I can only speculate, since I'm not exactly in the chain of "behind closed doors" information now.

Yes, Customer Service does often seem to take the hit, no matter the business. Profit is usually considered over even customer satisfaction, though most businesses know that there is a balance where if you lose too much of the latter, you lose some of the former. The thing is, as you mentioned, most businesses just then focus on where the money is. Billing tickets (understandably) are handled faster, while the rest take a back seat. That doesn't mean the wait is always horrendous, since I know for a fact we largely just see the worst of it here in SF as opposed to the norm, but it can get there. I've literally seen over a year waits for hacks, though that was when I was first omni'd, and the team has kept up with them much better since.

I will say that I know that Gaia isn't proud of whatever the actual ticket queue time is if it's more than a couple of weeks. I know how the current CCS lead is, and having been a previous mod, it frustrates him probably as much as mods and users. Mods it frustrates because most of them joined to do good for the site, but as humans they do need to step back sometimes and not work every moment that they're on Gaia. The issue is, as almost always, resources. It's up to Gaia Interactive to decide whether or not they want to put more resources into some things instead of just demanding more from the same number of people. Until whoever makes those decisions decides that maybe growing the Community and Customer Service team a little so that they can grow the mod team properly is worth the cost, we'll have to take whatever the few CCS people and the mods can scrape up around trying to do other assigned tasks or, in the case of mods, pay their own bills.

Bloodthirsty Man-Lover

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Jiminy Christmas, you need more mods. Make this a priority for the love of Gaia.


Blame Zero, all his fault. EVERYTHING IS HIS FAULT.

Joking aside, getting more people for the moderator team is a lot more difficult than just taking on a bunch of people that have signed up to try and be mods. The process of vetting through applicants takes time (like seriously, it's a big vetting process for all applicants because we're making sure that no one slips through the cracks that could be more of a problem than asset to the team).

After that, they have to go through the first stage of training, which is so much time on the trainers, and there aren't many. If they can get past that stage, and get to actual modding training, you still don't have as many new mods than you would think. A trend is once people who do make it pass all the training get to be a mod and see what it's like, they don't want to be one anymore. It's a lot of work to be a mod. You seriously have to almost consider it as a part-time job you're doing for free on your own time.

It's a lot easier said than done to just have new mods. The process we get mods might take time, but the mods we get are ones you can actually have trust in that they're productive towards keeping Gaia going.

Sahdomi's Princess

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ThanatosRising
Honestly, I think the moderator system as a whole needs to be revamped, and even switch to a paid position (at the very least for global's and omni's). Unfortunately, I don't think this is ever going to happen because Gaia has zero incentive to, especially since a good majority of users seem content to accept the status quo rather than realize that month long queues are ridiculous.

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I really, really agree with this however it's not something that will probably ever happen. I've never been on a site that has moved a volunteer position to a paid one, sadly. Unless you go from a mod to an admin, which rarely happens here.

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Princess Angelishia
Hey there! Thanks again for the feedback. We plan on doing another mod round soon (next few weeks here).

Anyone interested in applying can check out this FAQ.

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That's good to know. You might want to update that mod sticky though. Your Mod Application Chat thread links to a thread in the Chatterbox.

Also, saying you're going to do it and doing it are different. It's been SOON (tm) for a long time now.

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Gaidin
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Damn Gaidin. I know you're not saying no, but you're saying it's not going to happen if I'm reading this correctly?

I mean, that's super disheartening. It's nice to see it from a different perspective though, I appreciate you explaining it. CS seems to always be the first thing to go in online businesses though, so I'm not surprised in the least. I guess if Gaia is proud of it's 5-6 month ticket queues and god knows how long hacking/scamming queues then that's okay I guess. But if your ticket is billing related? You'll get a response in less than a few hours.

I feel you, really I do.

What I'm saying is that you'll never have "enough" mods. In the current Gaia climate, this is true for pretty much for any realistic definition of "enough". As evidenced by a staff post a handful of hours before this one, they can state that they'll do a mod round whenever. I know that some of the mods who would be involved in training have wanted a mod round for ages. The problem is always resources. Usually the most precious ones are time and available people. Maybe they'll move someone from tickets to help a little on training, or maybe they'll just add it to their plate. I know how things used to work, and I doubt certain basics have changed much, but I can only speculate, since I'm not exactly in the chain of "behind closed doors" information now.

Yes, Customer Service does often seem to take the hit, no matter the business. Profit is usually considered over even customer satisfaction, though most businesses know that there is a balance where if you lose too much of the latter, you lose some of the former. The thing is, as you mentioned, most businesses just then focus on where the money is. Billing tickets (understandably) are handled faster, while the rest take a back seat. That doesn't mean the wait is always horrendous, since I know for a fact we largely just see the worst of it here in SF as opposed to the norm, but it can get there. I've literally seen over a year waits for hacks, though that was when I was first omni'd, and the team has kept up with them much better since.

I will say that I know that Gaia isn't proud of whatever the actual ticket queue time is if it's more than a couple of weeks. I know how the current CCS lead is, and having been a previous mod, it frustrates him probably as much as mods and users. Mods it frustrates because most of them joined to do good for the site, but as humans they do need to step back sometimes and not work every moment that they're on Gaia. The issue is, as almost always, resources. It's up to Gaia Interactive to decide whether or not they want to put more resources into some things instead of just demanding more from the same number of people. Until whoever makes those decisions decides that maybe growing the Community and Customer Service team a little so that they can grow the mod team properly is worth the cost, we'll have to take whatever the few CCS people and the mods can scrape up around trying to do other assigned tasks or, in the case of mods, pay their own bills.

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Okay so we will never have enough, I get that. I accept that. But, that doesn't mean we don't need more. Enough is ambiguous, but that shouldn't halt recruitment of more and it certainly shouldn't suck the fun out of the site for the ones that are left. That's really my main concern. When you dread doing your mod duties because there is so much to do and not enough of you to do it.. you lose interest and become resentful.

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Shirlox
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Jiminy Christmas, you need more mods. Make this a priority for the love of Gaia.


Blame Zero, all his fault. EVERYTHING IS HIS FAULT.

Joking aside, getting more people for the moderator team is a lot more difficult than just taking on a bunch of people that have signed up to try and be mods. The process of vetting through applicants takes time (like seriously, it's a big vetting process for all applicants because we're making sure that no one slips through the cracks that could be more of a problem than asset to the team).

After that, they have to go through the first stage of training, which is so much time on the trainers, and there aren't many. If they can get past that stage, and get to actual modding training, you still don't have as many new mods than you would think. A trend is once people who do make it pass all the training get to be a mod and see what it's like, they don't want to be one anymore. It's a lot of work to be a mod. You seriously have to almost consider it as a part-time job you're doing for free on your own time.

It's a lot easier said than done to just have new mods. The process we get mods might take time, but the mods we get are ones you can actually have trust in that they're productive towards keeping Gaia going.

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ZELOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Let me clear here though forreal before someone grabs this and tries to spin it: this isn't directed at Zero.

This is just directed at anyone on staff that will read it and take it to heart. I mean what I'm saying isn't wrong, but maybe there needs to be an open dialogue in a public forum for them to hear from members too that we do need this.

I know a lot of resources go in to vetting, testing, training mods but what about FAs that are useful and vetted already? There has to be people of worth in there. When you pluck from the FAs, you replace with another member and so on and so on. I think overall, the process sounds like it needs a real revamp.

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Grumpy Codger

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Wow, your thread is getting quite the hit parade of former mods. blaugh

Me, I'm probably the old timer of the bunch so far, since I modded from 2005 to about 2010, and then came back a year or so later for another six months or so. My perspective is a bit different.

Zero does a very good job, actually. He's consistent and makes a real effort at diplomacy and is in possibly the most difficult position when it comes to the mods, so I think criticism directed at him is often misinformed and pretty pointless. If he can do something to improve things, he does it. I suspect all too often his hands are tied by things in the office that none of the mods or users will ever know about.

As Gaidin said, the current batches of mods go through an exhaustive vetting process, which in my considered opinion, makes pretty damned sure they end up with mods who will not under any circumstances think for themselves and who will follow the rules and current policies to the letter- in fear of losing their status in the event of making mistakes.

This is an enormous change from when I was first modded, because staff in those days pretty much ignored what the mods were doing unless a user complained of a genuinely bad and unfair ban. The early mods on this site set up the format for the forum rules, wrote all the old stickies, argued endlessly in private chats about better ways to ensure a good user experience while dealing with the trolls and spammers, and occasional outright invasions from 4chan and similar. Boy... did I ever get a crash course in "how to internets" when I was chosen by some of those old time mods in 2005.

The mods I was trained by taught my round to think on our feet, use the lightest hand possible when dealing with users- since free expression is vitally important on a forum site- and to talk to users in the clearest possible terms when explaining a warning or ban. We were encouraged to remain active in our forums. We considered new mods untested until they'd had a hate thread posted about them by an irate troll... Fun times, I gotta say. I loved being a mod, but times change.

I think, even more than just needing more mods- because you are very, very correct there- we need mods who're allowed to have a few warts and flaws. Mods need to be tough, but fair. Diplomatic, but able to bring the hammer down when it becomes clear that's the better call. What they should not be is cookie cutter versions of each other, because the biggest strengths of the user base on Gaia is that they are individuals, and the mod team should reflect this.

Wheezing Elder

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Modding is a lot of work and they are greatly under appreciated. Mods also receive a lot of abuse from users even for things they have no control over. Those two things alone will cause many to shy away from applying and when you add the fact that it is basically a volunteer position, it is not worth it for them.

Sahdomi's Princess

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Dlin
Wow, your thread is getting quite the hit parade of former mods. blaugh

Me, I'm probably the old timer of the bunch so far, since I modded from 2005 to about 2010, and then came back a year or so later for another six months or so. My perspective is a bit different.

Zero does a very good job, actually. He's consistent and makes a real effort at diplomacy and is in possibly the most difficult position when it comes to the mods, so I think criticism directed at him is often misinformed and pretty pointless. If he can do something to improve things, he does it. I suspect all too often his hands are tied by things in the office that none of the mods or users will ever know about.

As Gaidin said, the current batches of mods go through an exhaustive vetting process, which in my considered opinion, makes pretty damned sure they end up with mods who will not under any circumstances think for themselves and who will follow the rules and current policies to the letter- in fear of losing their status in the event of making mistakes.

This is an enormous change from when I was first modded, because staff in those days pretty much ignored what the mods were doing unless a user complained of a genuinely bad and unfair ban. The early mods on this site set up the format for the forum rules, wrote all the old stickies, argued endlessly in private chats about better ways to ensure a good user experience while dealing with the trolls and spammers, and occasional outright invasions from 4chan and similar. Boy... did I ever get a crash course in "how to internets" when I was chosen by some of those old time mods in 2005.

The mods I was trained by taught my round to think on our feet, use the lightest hand possible when dealing with users- since free expression is vitally important on a forum site- and to talk to users in the clearest possible terms when explaining a warning or ban. We were encouraged to remain active in our forums. We considered new mods untested until they'd had a hate thread posted about them by an irate troll... Fun times, I gotta say. I loved being a mod, but times change.

I think, even more than just needing more mods- because you are very, very correct there- we need mods who're allowed to have a few warts and flaws. Mods need to be tough, but fair. Diplomatic, but able to bring the hammer down when it becomes clear that's the better call. What they should not be is cookie cutter versions of each other, because the biggest strengths of the user base on Gaia is that they are individuals, and the mod team should reflect this.

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I'm not sure if I should close the can of worms or leave it open so they can wiggle out.. either way, I'm glad people are getting involved.

I don't think people should be vetted out because they have a flaw or two, I think that the team should look past the flaw and see how they choose to overcome it. I know people on the mod team aren't perfect and everyone is human, so I agree that the mod team should reflect Gaia as a whole.

Again, I definitely feel like I should maybe reiterate this in my OP but alas, I definitely not picking on Zero.

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asylum lane
Modding is a lot of work and they are greatly under appreciated. Mods also receive a lot of abuse from users even for things they have no control over. Those two things alone will cause many to shy away from applying and when you add the fact that it is basically a volunteer position, it is not worth it for them.

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This isn't a question of lack of applicants, it's a question of movement beyond the applicant process.
We've been stagnant with no open announcements about modding for years. That's the problem.

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Grumpy Codger

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I'm not sure if I should close the can of worms or leave it open so they can wiggle out.. either way, I'm glad people are getting involved.

I don't think people should be vetted out because they have a flaw or two, I think that the team should look past the flaw and see how they choose to overcome it. I know people on the mod team aren't perfect and everyone is human, so I agree that the mod team should reflect Gaia as a whole.

Again, I definitely feel like I should maybe reiterate this in my OP but alas, I definitely not picking on Zero.

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Oh, I got that. My comment on Zero wasn't directed at you, it was in hope of not seeing this thread even slightly derailed.

You're right about the need for more mods. I've often seen that the best way to nudge staff into action is to post threads like these, and get thoughtful, constructive and non-combative posts from users supporting the original post. It's nice that staff has responded with a prompt for people to apply since they'll be having another mod training round soon, but I'm hoping you and other users will hold their feet to the fire, since "soon" on Gaia can sometimes mean "in this same decade, maybe, if we have the time".

Bloodthirsty Man-Lover

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ZELOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Let me clear here though forreal before someone grabs this and tries to spin it: this isn't directed at Zero.

This is just directed at anyone on staff that will read it and take it to heart. I mean what I'm saying isn't wrong, but maybe there needs to be an open dialogue in a public forum for them to hear from members too that we do need this.

I know a lot of resources go in to vetting, testing, training mods but what about FAs that are useful and vetted already? There has to be people of worth in there. When you pluck from the FAs, you replace with another member and so on and so on. I think overall, the process sounds like it needs a real revamp.

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I want to add to the statement about Zero, including what Dlin stated;
Quote:
Zero does a very good job, actually.


The rest of Gaia has no idea how much Zero does for everyone. Gaia would not be as a great of a place as it has become if it was not for him. He has done SO much and puts a lot of time into his job as our Admin Lead. I just wanted to take a quick moment for everyone to know, we joke that everything is his fault and we all hate him, but in reality Zero does everything and more for the behind-the-scenes stuff. But it's still ALL HIS FAULT (Zero if you read this, go drink an AMF).

So as for your idea of using the FA's, this is actually something that the mod team has done before. We've gotten people who were great at being FA's and given them a chance to become mods (I can think of one current mod on the team who does A LOT who came from this program). Fa's are also made of up of people who made it to mod training but didn't go on to the mod stage of training, be it for personal reasons or a lack of something in training that their mentor saw that meant they didn't move on, but showed that they would be better suited as an FA than a mod and were offered that opportunity to stay on as FA's.

A lot of the issues about replacing FA's and Mods is that the vetting is where we find people whose pasts cause the team to really consider "do we want someone with a history to be included on the team?" It's not as easy as you'd think to find people with clean or decent records who want to actively be a part of the team. lol

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