Wiccan FAQ - ?????? PROFIT

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STEP 1: CALL YOURSELF WICCAN	11.5%	[ 283 ]
STEP 2: BUY STRANGE CLOTHES	6.3%	[ 154 ]
STEP 3: WHINE ABOUT HOW OPPRESSED YOU ARE	11.0%	[ 270 ]
STEP 4: ????????	37.4%	[ 917 ]
STEP 5: PROFIT!	33.7%	[ 827 ]
Total Votes:			[ 2451 ]

[TeaDidikai]

Myself, I call it a Fertility Cult because the founder of the religion did in his books, lectures and interviews.

Starlock

I think describing Wicca as a fertility religion strikes me off because if I were to describe Wicca in as few words as possible, fertility would not be one of the words included.

Well, of course you would know- you make such a better authority than Gardner on this subject after all.

Quote:

Wicca also, or so it appears, places a rather strong emphasis on death as well (as their highest holy day is Samhain, celebrating dead ancestors) so could it also be dubbed a death religion?

You would know better than I. After all, you are lineaged third degree Wiccan after all.

I would also love for you to detail what it means to be Sinti. I can't wait for your insights and instruction.

[Kalyani Srijoi]

TeaDidikai

Small point of fact on the first page that might need to be updated:

Homosexuality was the primary reason Alex split from Gardner's coven and when on to form the Alexandrian sect if I recall correctly. The religion was anti-homosexual initially, but sects have been created with legit lineage and changed this policy from inside the theology.

So I've heard, althought my understanding is that even most Gardnerian covens have become much better about that. Then again, that's only hearsay, really - I don't have anything substantial to back that up. I will mention that, though.

Quote:

killers_are_quiet_666

I spell magik with a "k" to seperate magik from stage magik, Real from fake.

Historically, we know that pagan priests from the Hellenic and Egyptian cultures used mechanical devices to perform "miracles", that were designed to inspire awe in the hearts of their followers.

These are largely documented in the works of Heron of Alexandria, and were designed to cause ritual swords to pass through the neck of a drinking stone statue, for other statues to move and dance and for doors to open.

The idea that illusion and pagan magic have a restraining order against one another is one that I find absurd.

Yasmine Galenorn (while not Wiccan) has some amazing things to say about pagan ritual involving invocation. She suggests that there is a difference between Deep Play and Dramatic Play. Her terms ascribe inspired spiritual gnosis and the actions that arise from such as Deep Play, the psychodramatic dimension of the role of a leader of ritual. Dramatic Play is considered to be the base element of drama that people bring in with them- and it is the fuel that Mr. Darks thrive on. Dramatic Play is the sudden scream of an Attention Whore as she collapses to the ground saying she is being ******** by the Horned Lord when this is quite clearly not the case.

Deep Play has room for theatrics. The communal spiritual experience has room for flash powder, and illusions- and the fact that we know how they work makes them no less magical than the chalice on the alter or the wand in the hand. They still benefit those who came to worship by creating the same feelings in them that they inspired in the Greeks and Egyptians.

Bloody hell, you are a ******** geyser of good insight, you know that?

I think I'll finally get around to updating the first post tonight.

[Kalyani Srijoi]

Starlock

I think describing Wicca as a fertility religion strikes me off because if I were to describe Wicca in as few words as possible, fertility would not be one of the words included.

I really don't think the importance of fertility in Wicca can be overestimated. Gardner himself refered to Wicca as a fertility cult, and as it is a religion that focuses so heavily on the cycles of life, it really can't exist without fertility.

Quote:

Wicca also, or so it appears, places a rather strong emphasis on death as well (as their highest holy day is Samhain, celebrating dead ancestors) so could it also be dubbed a death religion?

The High Priestess' Samhain Invocation: "Dread Lord of the shadows, god of life and the giver of life. Yet is the knowledge of thee the knowledge of death. Open wide, I pray thee, thy gates through which all must pass. Let our dear ones who have gone before, return this night to make merry with us. And when our time comes, as it must, O thou the comforter, the consoler, the giver of peace and rest, we will enter thy realms gladly and unafraid, for we know that when rested and refreshed among our dear ones, we shall be born again by thy grace and the grace of the Great Mother."

No, I wouldn't call it a 'death' religion.

Quote:

Heh. xd Anyway, if I had to describe Wicca in as few words as possible I'd probably just say Wicca is a ditheistic Nature-based religion, the main idea behind Nature-based being inclusive of the idea of fertility, death, and the natural cycles all things pass through. Just a thought. whee

I dislike the implications of calling it a 'nature-based' religion for a number of reasons. While you might call it that meaning 'a religion based upon the natural cycle of things,' those unfamiliar with Wicca will assume that it deals with nature as the opposite of technology and civilization - dealing chiefly with animal and plant life and the earth itself, becoming one with nature and worshipping an Earth Mother and whatnot. Wicca is a religion concerned with the relationship between humans and the Lord and Lady. Wiccans are not worshippers of the Earth, and while it does not preclude the sort of environmentalism common among neopagans today, it doesn't really include it either.

[Utenapishtam]

*walks in and sits down**hopes this thread isn't dead*

[Kalyani Srijoi]

Utenapishtam

*walks in and sits down**hopes this thread isn't dead*

It isn't. When posting in any ED subforums, though, your posts are generally supposed to contain discussion of some sort. If you'd like to ask a question, or comment on the thread...?

[Utenapishtam]

Mk, one small question I have had in the back of my mind for a long while, is there really a proper way for doing your dedication other than the candle and the nightly prayer?

[Kalyani Srijoi]

Utenapishtam

Mk, one small question I have had in the back of my mind for a long while, is there really a proper way for doing your dedication other than the candle and the nightly prayer?

Dedication?

I'm not faimilar with exactly what ritual you're refering to, I'm afraid, as I've only heard of 'dedication' in a context obviously different from the way you're using it. Could you explain what you mean by this?

[Utenapishtam]

Kalyani Srijoi

Utenapishtam

Mk, one small question I have had in the back of my mind for a long while, is there really a proper way for doing your dedication other than the candle and the nightly prayer?

Dedication?

I'm not faimilar with exactly what ritual you're refering to, I'm afraid, as I've only heard of 'dedication' in a context obviously different from the way you're using it. Could you explain what you mean by this?

The prayer for dedication. You do it for a year and a day before your initiation as a show of good faith.

[maenad nuri]

Utenapishtam

Kalyani Srijoi

Utenapishtam

Mk, one small question I have had in the back of my mind for a long while, is there really a proper way for doing your dedication other than the candle and the nightly prayer?

Dedication?

I'm not faimilar with exactly what ritual you're refering to, I'm afraid, as I've only heard of 'dedication' in a context obviously different from the way you're using it. Could you explain what you mean by this?

The prayer for dedication. You do it for a year and a day before your initiation as a show of good faith.

Where did you get said prayer and dedication ritual from?

[Kalyani Srijoi]

Utenapishtam

Kalyani Srijoi

Utenapishtam

Mk, one small question I have had in the back of my mind for a long while, is there really a proper way for doing your dedication other than the candle and the nightly prayer?

Dedication?

I'm not faimilar with exactly what ritual you're refering to, I'm afraid, as I've only heard of 'dedication' in a context obviously different from the way you're using it. Could you explain what you mean by this?

The prayer for dedication. You do it for a year and a day before your initiation as a show of good faith.

Oh, self-dedication rituals. Sorry - the one with a nightly prayer (as in a prayer every night, which is what I assumed you meant) isn't one that I've heard. There are a lot of them, though some of them are rather less Wiccan than others.

I have never heard of a 'proper' self-dedication ritual - as far as I am aware, it's not something that's been standardized the way initiation has. I've heard of people using all sorts of dedication rituals, and I've never seen any that are 'official,' so I would say that as long as the ritual makes sense within a Wiccan context, it's fine.

If anyone does know of an official ritual, though, by all means...

[Utenapishtam]

Kalyani Srijoi

Utenapishtam

Kalyani Srijoi

Utenapishtam

Mk, one small question I have had in the back of my mind for a long while, is there really a proper way for doing your dedication other than the candle and the nightly prayer?

Dedication?

I'm not faimilar with exactly what ritual you're refering to, I'm afraid, as I've only heard of 'dedication' in a context obviously different from the way you're using it. Could you explain what you mean by this?

The prayer for dedication. You do it for a year and a day before your initiation as a show of good faith.

Oh, self-dedication rituals. Sorry - the one with a nightly prayer (as in a prayer every night, which is what I assumed you meant) isn't one that I've heard. There are a lot of them, though some of them are rather less Wiccan than others.

I have never heard of a 'proper' self-dedication ritual - as far as I am aware, it's not something that's been standardized the way initiation has. I've heard of people using all sorts of dedication rituals, and I've never seen any that are 'official,' so I would say that as long as the ritual makes sense within a Wiccan context, it's fine.

If anyone does know of an official ritual, though, by all means...

What I've heard is a lot of it is what you make of it. It has to follow general guide lines, but other than that, do what you want with it.

[Rookherst[KOS]]

Quote:

Well, I don't expect you to take me up on this, but I've researched a considerable amount towards understanding the origins of the four elements. Feel free to PM me if you want me to write up something short and sweet. Most of the current research I have done focuses on the original Greek model, which is, what I figure, you'd want.

Interesting .....

You are aware that the Classical System has 5 Elements? no.

Quote:

What I ultimately set about to find out is what the rationalization is behind those bedamned correspondence tables... and where the system got screwed up by modern Pagans. Well, 'screwed up' is perhaps a bit harsh, but some of the correspondences used by modern Pagans and occultists alike do not follow in step with the Greek model.

The model Changes as understanding does?

[Kalyani Srijoi]

Rookherst[KOS]

Quote:

Well, I don't expect you to take me up on this, but I've researched a considerable amount towards understanding the origins of the four elements. Feel free to PM me if you want me to write up something short and sweet. Most of the current research I have done focuses on the original Greek model, which is, what I figure, you'd want.

Interesting .....

You are aware that the Classical System has 5 Elements? no.

Not necessarily. The 'fifth element' is added on by some philosophers, but it isn't always listed as one of the classical elements.

Quote:

Quote:

What I ultimately set about to find out is what the rationalization is behind those bedamned correspondence tables... and where the system got screwed up by modern Pagans. Well, 'screwed up' is perhaps a bit harsh, but some of the correspondences used by modern Pagans and occultists alike do not follow in step with the Greek model.

The model Changes as understanding does?

Huh?

[Loona Wynd]

So by fertility do you mean the cycle of life or something else?

[Utenapishtam]

csolei

So by fertility do you mean the cycle of life or something else?

I believe it's fertility in the general sense of procreation. There are many gods/goddesses that represent fertility. The lady in general does as well.