Is Islam a violent/ lost/ currupted religion.

do polls encourage you to read a thread

yes	50.5%	[ 432 ]
no	49.5%	[ 424 ]
Total Votes:			[ 856 ]

[Archdemonessa]

G.M.-Skel+

Islam is an imperialistic, expansionist religion.
It is not peaceful.
Muhammad Ibn Abdallah Ibn Al-Muttalib(570-632), the prophet of islam, was a man of war who taught his followers to spread his religion by the sword.
Muhammad was a rapist, a *****, a raider who butchered thousands of people who would not subdue before Allah.
This is where Islam comes from.
Those are its roots; Islam was born out of war.
Islam can't accept the other religions which currently exist.
This is the root cause of todays conflict.
This is their motivation.
It is the divinly ordained duty of all muslims to fight in the literal sense, until man-made law has been replaced by God's law, the Sharia, and Islamic law has conquered the entire world.
Muslims have been trying to achieve this goal for 14 hundred years.
This isn't a new conflict; it started in the 7th century.
Moderate Muslims speak of Islam coexisting with other religions and say that the Qu'ran includes many passages promoting peace with the "people of the book" (Jews and Christians).
These are lies.
I accept that the majority of moderate muslims may truly believe that Islam is a peaceful religion, but they are wrong.
For every text moderate Muslims may produce to try to show its peaceful side, there are dozens of counter examples which are both philosophically and historically far more legitimate.
I am not a racist.
I'm just spreading truth.
You can find the truth about Islam yourself by reading the following books, they're a pretty good start:

The Qu'ran, translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali

The life of Muhammad: a translation of ibn ishaq's work: Sirat Rasul Allah, by A. Guillaume

An Introduction to Islamic Law by Joseph Schacht

Jihad in the West: Muslim Conquests From the 7th to the 21st Centuries, by Paul Fregosi

Why I'm Not a Muslim, by Ibn Warraq

I have read those books, the books written by Mullah, and the books written by Imam. I know the truth. I am Muslim.

[Empress Nikki the Fae]

CoolCosmic

Should peace always be the initiative of the enemies of islam?

They are also told to exhaust every option to try to obtain peace before war.

[CoolCosmic]

Fae Ascendant

CoolCosmic

Quran 4:34 Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Problem with verse. rolleyes

whitewash. actual linguists and scholars like Yusufali, Pickthal, Shakir, even that muslim heretic Rashad Khalifa all agree on the translation that the quran calls for the beating or scourging of wives who wont listen to the admonishion of their husbands.

[CoolCosmic]

Fae Ascendant

They are also told to exhaust every option to try to obtain peace before war.

please quote the quran as I do. show us please.


and the question remains, during war should peace always be the initiative of the enemies of islam?

[Empress Nikki the Fae]

CoolCosmic

please quote the quran as I do. show us please.

Read the link I gave you.

Quote:

and the question remains, during war should peace always be the initiative of the enemies of islam?

Considering the Qur'an calls only for war against agressors
2:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
And only fight until the oppression stops either through defeat or they change their policies.
2:193 And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

It would be rather silly to fight for your rights then ask for peace before they are willing to give you what you are asking for.

[soul_walker]

da_wall

Has Islam been twisted into a system that it was not origianly, has the world moved on and it has been left in the era where women were secondary and democracy was non-existant.
eg when islam orriginaly came about wasn't it quite radical when it came to womens rights, and now it is veiwed to be holding them back.
Terroism, anyone know what the koran says about it, I have my suspicions that the terroists are using islam as almost an excuse to be violent.
what are your veiws?

I think you have a point...sort of. Islam has in the past used violence to achieve their means. They would invade a land and basically tell the people convert or die. It brought people to their cause, and that's why it's spread so fast. However, I think this is more of the people in it than the actual religion. I could be completely wrong though. sweatdrop

[CoolCosmic]

Fae Ascendant

CoolCosmic

please quote the quran as I do. show us please.

Read the link I gave you.

I have, I didnt see anything there that supports your claim. Even with regards to islamic history, Mohammad did not make peace with the meccans before he committed an act of war by highway-robbing their supply caravans and killing an innocent meccan.

Fae Ascendant

Quote:

and the question remains, during war should peace always be the initiative of the enemies of islam?

Considering the Qur'an calls only for war against agressors
2:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
And only fight until the oppression stops either through defeat or they change their policies.
2:193 And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

It would be rather silly to fight for your rights then ask for peace before they are willing to give you what you are asking for.

you didnt answer the question. besides, read verse 2:193, one of the conditions for peace is the prevailance of the islamic faith.

so arent muslims encouraged to become peacemakers in times of conflict?

[TheSunflowerSamurai]

Dude, just about EVERY major religion(especiallly monotheistic) had VERY rocky starts. And by rocky, I mean violent. The Jewish people, even, had to gain the Promised Land by killing most of the people currently there. In fact, God commanded them to, for some cities, kill EVERYONE in the city. But after they had the Promised Land, they became your average country that occasionally went to war. Christianity? The church established themselves AS the state. They forced people to attend services and live life their way. If they had ANY alternate thought, the Spanish Inquisition or some such party would arrest them, try them(very biased trial, by the way), and burn them! That lasted for 1500 years. For the Muslims, its lasted a little bit too long. But the muslims will EVENTUALLY grow up. I'm glad to say that some muslimshave very much grown up, so this violence and terrorism just requires some growing up on the part of islamists.

[CoolCosmic]

^ Of course. But Im not really sure about the growing up thingie. Islam has a much narrower point of view compared to other religions.

[MacThompson]

Bloodless Amber

I've read some of the Koran. I can't say I've read it front to cover, but I've read enough to know it does not encourage violence in any way. Islam does not support violence. It was twisted by corrupted leaders who manipulate people's minds.

Then it's obvious you haven't read enough.

Take the following list of quotes from the Koran:

Quote:

"Now when you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks until you overcome them fully..." - 47:4

Quote:

O you who have attained to faith! Fight against those unbelievers who are near you and let them find you adamant, and know that God is with those who are conscious of Him" - 9:123

Quote:

"Slay the pagans wherever you may come upon them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every conceivable place..." - 9:5

I don't think that this list need be expanded any further.

[chessiejo]

most religions preach peace and justice.

many so-called religious people, howver, prefer to follow rigidity, harshness and intolerance, even to the point of bloodshed. many in this group are fundamentalists.

in any religion they ar a minority, but often a vocal and vehement and active one that gets a lot of attention.

you find them in Islam, but also Christianity, Hinduism and elsewhere.

[[L.o.s.t_i.n_F.l.i.g.h.t]]

Islam's problem is that people take the text wrong, or make up their own to suite their perpouses. Much like in the bible, text contradicts itself...but the general rule is to follow everything that is said AFTER the phrophit comes. Such as in Christianity "and eye for an eye" Jesus later says don't do that. In teh Koran it says to hate all Christans and Jews, but after Muhamad comes it contradicts that and says to become friends, in hope of turning them. Not exactly the best intentions to become friends in my eyes...but better than killing each other.

[Garlic Goblin]

In everyone's eyes there is an evil there will always be a good/evil between one faction and another life is a series of balance and checks. as long as there is a light a shadow is bound to follow.

[da_wall]

TheSunflowerSamurai

The Jewish people, even, had to gain the Promised Land by killing most of the people currently there. In fact, God commanded them to, for some cities, kill EVERYONE in the city. But after they had the Promised Land, they became your average country that occasionally went to war.

I think that by this point Jewdaism had been around for several hundred/ thousand years (since the beggining of the earth).

TheSunflowerSamurai

The church established themselves AS the state

I pretty sure that the church was formed under persicution (the romans).

Islam it was formed during war (I think correct me if I'm wrong), wether or not that war was justified is another matter

[Fatal Hilarity]

da_wall

Bloodless Amber

By the way, the Old Testament and New Testament claim god will punish the non believers. So how is this case different?

I'm quite sure the bible encourages us to love both those who belive and those who don't (eg the story of the good samaritan).

How bout the koran it seems to me it encourages people to reject and distance themselves from unbelivers?

I don't know enough about the New Testament, but in the Old one, they do reject non believers, and call them sinners. I'd been forced to study that for 8 years, and I can't recall one case where it says you should appreciate the sinner.
The New Testament? I haven't read enough of it, but they don't have much respect for the "sinners" ever, as far as I know.