FAQs About Mormonism - Discussion

[Darkslider]

I am sorry Whitelightone, but you haven't presented anything nor have you proven anything.

The fact that I hold you to the same standard that I hold myself means that you are needing to back up your claims.

"Joseph is a false prophet and this is why I think that"

"No he isn't"

Well, I have presented my proof. You are the one that is contradicting yourself.

You assume hypocricy on my part for requiring you to meet your own sciptural standards when the only hypocrisy occuring is your not looking at the evidence presented and then making conclusions from your preconceived ideas, many of which are forced down your throat from a young age.

How is asking you to follow your own cannonized scripture hypocrisy?

Christ Almighty, surely you can see the match that I hold to your Straw Man.

[Darkslider]

Whitelightone

Darkslider

Whitelightone

Be careful in how you apply Deut. 18:22, for you threaten to reject some true prophets in the Bible! There are examples where a true prophet prophesied something which did not happen as he stated, to the best of our knowledge. An example is found in the story of Jonah, who was told by God to prophecy to the people of Nineveh. Jonah prophesied that the people would be destroyed in 40 days (Jonah 3:4) - no loopholes were offered, just imminent doom.

What part of "I don't believe any of the prophets where true prophets" is so damn hard to understand?

Then Why hold a standard at all? You used the Biblical Standard. That implies that you believe that there were true prophets.

Or, it could mean that I didn't find anything nearly so definitive in the Book of Mormon.

Whitelightone

Darkslider]

Whitelightone

Conclusions are drawn from

ifog3pmx:5="Whitelightone

Conclusions are drawn from Fact.

Burden of Proof lies with you.

I gave the proof. Yet you are contridicting youreself every other post. you say that you don't believe that there were any true prophets yet you are using the Standard for prophecy found in Deutronomy. That sounds like hypocricy to me.

You gave nothing. You gave conjecture and half-formed theory. You gave no proof, no fact. Simply, the phrase "It is fact" does not make it so. You must have something to back it. Yet, you refuse to share those same facts with the rest of us.

Whitelightone

Darkslider

Whitelightone

I still don't see Read about the prophets of the OT. Those Same 11 rules apply. My Point stands.

What point? I still don't see how or why those rules apply to anything. You have yet to show me where the fact is that you are basing your rules on. Until you show me these facts that you made your 11 rules on. . . it is nothing more than conjecture on your part.

Read the same Book [Bible] where you got the standard of prophecy from.

Done. And? Is there something about the Levite coming to visit that should mean more to me? Or was it the part about divination and consulting with "familiar spirits"? If anything the rest of that chapter is more condemning to Joseph Smith who actively practiced Divination, Seering and the like. I really don't see how more condemning scripture backs your stance. Please, God, I beg of you, show me what the ******** you are talking about.

Whitelightone

Darkslider

Whitelightone

As for D&C 3:3 (I think you meant 3:4)

No, I meant D&C 3:3 Remember, remember that it is not the work of God that is frustrated, but the work of men;

Use that in conjuction with the many prophecies of Joseph Smith that were frustrated, but he claimed where from God. . . . bam! Condemnation from the very scriptures that he made up.

Whitelightone

"For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him."

Funny, I think I showed you a case of this.

Quote:

Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! For I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet...."

(A Comprehensive History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, B.H. Roberts, pages 284-285).

Well? How do you rationalize this? I even talked about this exact verse in my original post. The fact that you bring it up as something that hasn't been discussed, leads me to believe that you didn't even bother to read the ******** post. Christ! And you expect me to take you seriously?

Do you expect me to take you seriously? Think about it for a second.

Thought about it. And, ********, yes! I do expect you to take me seriously. Stop throwing up Straw Men to cover for your lack of proof. You posted the ******** scripture. . . I provided you with the evidence that you seem to have been lacking. I even reposted it, because reading a ******** post is obviously beneath you.

Whitelightone

Darkslider

Whitelightone

If you read the heading, it is talking about God Chastizing JS Jr. because he let Harris take the 116 pages of manuscript. It has nothing to do with prophecy at all.

So, the word of god can only be applied to one person? I thought that the words of the prophets were for all man. ********. It is like arguing with a 3 year old.

Did I say that at all? No. There are times when the word of God is directed toward one sepcific person, yes, such as the case with David Patton. Prophets are allowed not only to have personal opinions, or even misunderstandings, but also to express them. It is up to those who hear the words spoken by a prophet to listen carefully, use their intelligence, and discern with the spirit whether a prophet is acting as a prophet or expressing his own views. You demonstrate time and again that you do not comprehend this simple principle.

Then why the hell do you accept Joseph Smith's opinions as being scripture? It really isn't that hard. Say it with me, "I don't know how I can rationalize the truth that Darkslider just showed me." See, that wasn't too hard, was it?

I showed you a specific example. You said that it didn't apply because it was Joseph Smith being chastised. Well? I show you why that it does apply. . . and the response I get is "I think you are stupid." I swear, do you even know how to hold conversation? Or is it just the late hour?

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I just want to get something clear about Mormonsim, is it true you believe that you become gods if you lead a good life and do everything you're supposed to, i.e. accept jesus, do works and miracles.

[Darkslider]

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I just want to get something clear about Mormonsim, is it true you believe that you become gods if you lead a good life and do everything you're supposed to, i.e. accept jesus, do works and miracles.

Yes and no (note: Some stupid Apologist is probably going to disagree with me about this).

The Mormon religion does teach that all men can become gods. However, a very stringent set of requirements must be met in order for that godhood to be granted.

This, in my opinion, has more to do with justification of their stance on God, then it does what they believe. As I see it, they needed justification for creating a new God, and one that was elevated from mortal status. . . must be possible to recreate. Hence, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become."

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Darkslider

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I just want to get something clear about Mormonsim, is it true you believe that you become gods if you lead a good life and do everything you're supposed to, i.e. accept jesus, do works and miracles.

Yes and no (note: Some stupid Apologist is probably going to disagree with me about this).

The Mormon religion does teach that all men can become gods. However, a very stringent set of requirements must be met in order for that godhood to be granted.

This, in my opinion, has more to do with justification of their stance on God, then it does what they believe. As I see it, they needed justification for creating a new God, and one that was elevated from mortal status. . . must be possible to recreate. Hence, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become."

but isn't that what the serpent told eve in genesis 3:4-5? that if they ate the fruit they would be as gods? It sounds the same and I hope some one can clear that up for me

[Darkslider]

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Darkslider

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I just want to get something clear about Mormonsim, is it true you believe that you become gods if you lead a good life and do everything you're supposed to, i.e. accept jesus, do works and miracles.

Yes and no (note: Some stupid Apologist is probably going to disagree with me about this).

The Mormon religion does teach that all men can become gods. However, a very stringent set of requirements must be met in order for that godhood to be granted.

This, in my opinion, has more to do with justification of their stance on God, then it does what they believe. As I see it, they needed justification for creating a new God, and one that was elevated from mortal status. . . must be possible to recreate. Hence, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become."

but isn't that what the serpent told eve in genesis 3:4-5? that if they ate the fruit they would be as gods? It sounds the same and I hope some one can clear that up for me

Right idea, wrong context.

The serpent said that by eating the fruit, Adam and Eve would be "as gods, knowing good and evil." Basically, this means that Adam and Eve would have the knowledge to recognize the difference between Good and Evil.

Mormons teach that as well. So, in that matter, they are similar.

But, with the added "You can become a God". . . this takes them into a different realm.

Does that help? Does it answer your question?

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Darkslider

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Darkslider

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I just want to get something clear about Mormonsim, is it true you believe that you become gods if you lead a good life and do everything you're supposed to, i.e. accept jesus, do works and miracles.

Yes and no (note: Some stupid Apologist is probably going to disagree with me about this).

The Mormon religion does teach that all men can become gods. However, a very stringent set of requirements must be met in order for that godhood to be granted.

This, in my opinion, has more to do with justification of their stance on God, then it does what they believe. As I see it, they needed justification for creating a new God, and one that was elevated from mortal status. . . must be possible to recreate. Hence, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become."

but isn't that what the serpent told eve in genesis 3:4-5? that if they ate the fruit they would be as gods? It sounds the same and I hope some one can clear that up for me

Right idea, wrong context.

The serpent said that by eating the fruit, Adam and Eve would be "as gods, knowing good and evil." Basically, this means that Adam and Eve would have the knowledge to recognize the difference between Good and Evil.

Mormons teach that as well. So, in that matter, they are similar.

But, with the added "You can become a God". . . this takes them into a different realm.

Does that help? Does it answer your question?

Look I'm really trying to understand but wasn't the fall of Satan because he wanted to become god?

[Darkslider]

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Darkslider

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Darkslider

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I just want to get something clear about Mormonsim, is it true you believe that you become gods if you lead a good life and do everything you're supposed to, i.e. accept jesus, do works and miracles.

Yes and no (note: Some stupid Apologist is probably going to disagree with me about this).

The Mormon religion does teach that all men can become gods. However, a very stringent set of requirements must be met in order for that godhood to be granted.

This, in my opinion, has more to do with justification of their stance on God, then it does what they believe. As I see it, they needed justification for creating a new God, and one that was elevated from mortal status. . . must be possible to recreate. Hence, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become."

but isn't that what the serpent told eve in genesis 3:4-5? that if they ate the fruit they would be as gods? It sounds the same and I hope some one can clear that up for me

Right idea, wrong context.

The serpent said that by eating the fruit, Adam and Eve would be "as gods, knowing good and evil." Basically, this means that Adam and Eve would have the knowledge to recognize the difference between Good and Evil.

Mormons teach that as well. So, in that matter, they are similar.

But, with the added "You can become a God". . . this takes them into a different realm.

Does that help? Does it answer your question?

Look I'm really trying to understand but wasn't the fall of Satan because he wanted to become god?

Understanding or no, your question does not follow the path you set it upon.

To answer. . .


Ah, ********. I just got what you were getting at. Ok, let's try it this way.

Mormonism teaches that God had a plan. He asked for ideas on how to implement said plan. Satan (or Lucifer the Morning Star) presented one solution, that solution was that He (Satan) would force everyone to follow the commandments, but in return for guaranteeing that all souls would return to God, Lucifer required payment.

Christ then stepped forward and presented a different plan that would allow all men to make their own choices and Christ would . . . help (only because I can't think of a better word for it) us return to God and Christ wanted the credit to go to God.

Satan was outraged at this, and according to the Mormon religion, a full-scale war erupted in heaven.

So, in answer to your question. . . No. Satan was not cast down for wanting to be God, he was cast down for his pride. Remember, this is just according to the Mormon faith, other religions may teach otherwise.

The difference between the story of Lucifer and Man becoming gods is that Lucifer was wanting to take credit for God's plan. . . Mormonism teaches that by following God's plan, man can become just like God.

I think that is the answer that you are looking for.

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Darkslider

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Darkslider

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Darkslider

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I just want to get something clear about Mormonsim, is it true you believe that you become gods if you lead a good life and do everything you're supposed to, i.e. accept jesus, do works and miracles.

Yes and no (note: Some stupid Apologist is probably going to disagree with me about this).

The Mormon religion does teach that all men can become gods. However, a very stringent set of requirements must be met in order for that godhood to be granted.

This, in my opinion, has more to do with justification of their stance on God, then it does what they believe. As I see it, they needed justification for creating a new God, and one that was elevated from mortal status. . . must be possible to recreate. Hence, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become."

but isn't that what the serpent told eve in genesis 3:4-5? that if they ate the fruit they would be as gods? It sounds the same and I hope some one can clear that up for me

Right idea, wrong context.

The serpent said that by eating the fruit, Adam and Eve would be "as gods, knowing good and evil." Basically, this means that Adam and Eve would have the knowledge to recognize the difference between Good and Evil.

Mormons teach that as well. So, in that matter, they are similar.

But, with the added "You can become a God". . . this takes them into a different realm.

Does that help? Does it answer your question?

Look I'm really trying to understand but wasn't the fall of Satan because he wanted to become god?

Understanding or no, your question does not follow the path you set it upon.

To answer. . .


Ah, ********. I just got what you were getting at. Ok, let's try it this way.

Mormonism teaches that God had a plan. He asked for ideas on how to implement said plan. Satan (or Lucifer the Morning Star) presented one solution, that solution was that He (Satan) would force everyone to follow the commandments, but in return for guaranteeing that all souls would return to God, Lucifer required payment.

Christ then stepped forward and presented a different plan that would allow all men to make their own choices and Christ would . . . help (only because I can't think of a better word for it) us return to God and Christ wanted the credit to go to God.

Satan was outraged at this, and according to the Mormon religion, a full-scale war erupted in heaven.

So, in answer to your question. . . No. Satan was not cast down for wanting to be God, he was cast down for his pride. Remember, this is just according to the Mormon faith, other religions may teach otherwise.

The difference between the story of Lucifer and Man becoming gods is that Lucifer was wanting to take credit for God's plan. . . Mormonism teaches that by following God's plan, man can become just like God.

I think that is the answer that you are looking for.

well I'm trying to find what the difference between mormonism and my form of christianity is since I don't believe in segregation of the church since it would make a church weak. So I'm trying to figure out how different they really are. Therefore I'm trying to get information on mormonsim from well mormons since it's the logical place to look.

I've heard that in mormonism you need certain... I can't think of the word, but they're like requirements to do things like to be a missionary or prayer to be effective. I think one was something like the malchizadeck ((I know I spelled that horribly wrong xp )) something... It's late here and I'm drawing a blank for the word

[Darkslider]

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well I'm trying to find what the difference between mormonism and my form of christianity is since I don't believe in segregation of the church since it would make a church weak. So I'm trying to figure out how different they really are. Therefore I'm trying to get information on mormonsim from well mormons since it's the logical place to look.

I've heard that in mormonism you need certain... I can't think of the word, but they're like requirements to do things like to be a missionary or prayer to be effective. I think one was something like the malchizadeck ((I know I spelled that horribly wrong xp )) something... It's late here and I'm drawing a blank for the word

Priesthood. The word you are looking for is priesthood.

The comment you made about prayer is off, way off (according to the LDS teachings).

However, with the exception of Sister Missionaries, yes. You do need to hold the Higher Priesthood or the Melchizedek Priesthood to be a missionary. There are several other things that are required to be a missionary (you must have received your Endowments, for example), but the Melchizedek Priesthood is supposedly the same power that God himself has. The Mormons have a justification for why Higher Priesthood holders aren't creating worlds and the like by saying things like "He doesn't have the keys to that".

This "power" is currently given to adult males (this has more to do with the oppression of women than anything else, in my opinion). There is a "lesser priesthood" called the Aaronic Priesthood that is used to ready a young man to hold the Higher priesthood. . . although, having held the Aaronic Priesthood, I would have to say that it is a load of s**t. The Aaronic Priesthood is more just a way to make sure that boys are feeling as though they matter to the church.

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Darkslider

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well I'm trying to find what the difference between mormonism and my form of christianity is since I don't believe in segregation of the church since it would make a church weak. So I'm trying to figure out how different they really are. Therefore I'm trying to get information on mormonsim from well mormons since it's the logical place to look.

I've heard that in mormonism you need certain... I can't think of the word, but they're like requirements to do things like to be a missionary or prayer to be effective. I think one was something like the malchizadeck ((I know I spelled that horribly wrong xp )) something... It's late here and I'm drawing a blank for the word

Priesthood. The word you are looking for is priesthood.

The comment you made about prayer is off, way off (according to the LDS teachings).

However, with the exception of Sister Missionaries, yes. You do need to hold the Higher Priesthood or the Melchizedek Priesthood to be a missionary. There are several other things that are required to be a missionary (you must have received your Endowments, for example), but the Melchizedek Priesthood is supposedly the same power that God himself has. The Mormons have a justification for why Higher Priesthood holders aren't creating worlds and the like by saying things like "He doesn't have the keys to that".

This "power" is currently given to adult males (this has more to do with the oppression of women than anything else, in my opinion). There is a "lesser priesthood" called the Aaronic Priesthood that is used to ready a young man to hold the Higher priesthood. . . although, having held the Aaronic Priesthood, I would have to say that it is a load of s**t. The Aaronic Priesthood is more just a way to make sure that boys are feeling as though they matter to the church.

Ok thank you for the link that helps. If you don't like answering questions like these you don't have to but I really want to know what god wants for me so I just want information so I can pray about it. I believe that the dead talking to people is necromancy but it says that Joseph Smith was visited by Peter, James, and John. Doesn't the bible teach that the dead are dead and don't speak to people?

[Darkslider]

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Darkslider

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well I'm trying to find what the difference between mormonism and my form of christianity is since I don't believe in segregation of the church since it would make a church weak. So I'm trying to figure out how different they really are. Therefore I'm trying to get information on mormonsim from well mormons since it's the logical place to look.

I've heard that in mormonism you need certain... I can't think of the word, but they're like requirements to do things like to be a missionary or prayer to be effective. I think one was something like the malchizadeck ((I know I spelled that horribly wrong xp )) something... It's late here and I'm drawing a blank for the word

Priesthood. The word you are looking for is priesthood.

The comment you made about prayer is off, way off (according to the LDS teachings).

However, with the exception of Sister Missionaries, yes. You do need to hold the Higher Priesthood or the Melchizedek Priesthood to be a missionary. There are several other things that are required to be a missionary (you must have received your Endowments, for example), but the Melchizedek Priesthood is supposedly the same power that God himself has. The Mormons have a justification for why Higher Priesthood holders aren't creating worlds and the like by saying things like "He doesn't have the keys to that".

This "power" is currently given to adult males (this has more to do with the oppression of women than anything else, in my opinion). There is a "lesser priesthood" called the Aaronic Priesthood that is used to ready a young man to hold the Higher priesthood. . . although, having held the Aaronic Priesthood, I would have to say that it is a load of s**t. The Aaronic Priesthood is more just a way to make sure that boys are feeling as though they matter to the church.

Ok thank you for the link that helps. If you don't like answering questions like these you don't have to but I really want to know what god wants for me so I just want information so I can pray about it. I believe that the dead talking to people is necromancy but it says that Joseph Smith was visited by Peter, James, and John. Doesn't the bible teach that the dead are dead and don't speak to people?

I have no problem with answering questions, so long as you have no problem listening to the truth.

The dead talking to you . . . isn't necromancy. Necromancy is when you are communicating with the spirits of the dead to tell the future. That is what the bible says is bad.

Believe me. . . Joseph Smith did a pretty good job of convering his a** on a lot of things.

As for the Bible teaching that the dead don't communicate with the living. . . I don't know. I haven't spent much time looking for an answer to that particular question.

[Darkslider]

Sorry, I try to be like 7-11. . . you know, "We may not be doing business, but we are always open". However, as my eyes are having a hard time focusing. . . and my fiance is already in bed. . . I go! I shall return though. As has been said before, "Darkslider is the only consistant poster" (the original quote had "for his side of the argument" or something like that. . . but since I am the only person who has been on this thread consistantly since it was in the double digits, well you get the idea) . . if you have any other questions, feel free to post them. I will answer when I can.

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Darkslider

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Darkslider

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well I'm trying to find what the difference between mormonism and my form of christianity is since I don't believe in segregation of the church since it would make a church weak. So I'm trying to figure out how different they really are. Therefore I'm trying to get information on mormonsim from well mormons since it's the logical place to look.

I've heard that in mormonism you need certain... I can't think of the word, but they're like requirements to do things like to be a missionary or prayer to be effective. I think one was something like the malchizadeck ((I know I spelled that horribly wrong xp )) something... It's late here and I'm drawing a blank for the word

Priesthood. The word you are looking for is priesthood.

The comment you made about prayer is off, way off (according to the LDS teachings).

However, with the exception of Sister Missionaries, yes. You do need to hold the Higher Priesthood or the Melchizedek Priesthood to be a missionary. There are several other things that are required to be a missionary (you must have received your Endowments, for example), but the Melchizedek Priesthood is supposedly the same power that God himself has. The Mormons have a justification for why Higher Priesthood holders aren't creating worlds and the like by saying things like "He doesn't have the keys to that".

This "power" is currently given to adult males (this has more to do with the oppression of women than anything else, in my opinion). There is a "lesser priesthood" called the Aaronic Priesthood that is used to ready a young man to hold the Higher priesthood. . . although, having held the Aaronic Priesthood, I would have to say that it is a load of s**t. The Aaronic Priesthood is more just a way to make sure that boys are feeling as though they matter to the church.

Ok thank you for the link that helps. If you don't like answering questions like these you don't have to but I really want to know what god wants for me so I just want information so I can pray about it. I believe that the dead talking to people is necromancy but it says that Joseph Smith was visited by Peter, James, and John. Doesn't the bible teach that the dead are dead and don't speak to people?

I have no problem with answering questions, so long as you have no problem listening to the truth.

The dead talking to you . . . isn't necromancy. Necromancy is when you are communicating with the spirits of the dead to tell the future. That is what the bible says is bad.

Believe me. . . Joseph Smith did a pretty good job of convering his a** on a lot of things.

As for the Bible teaching that the dead don't communicate with the living. . . I don't know. I haven't spent much time looking for an answer to that particular question.

Well thank you for putting up with me then. Well in Galations 1:6-10 it specificaly says even if he ((Which I did notice didn't come down to him)) or even an angel, which I think is Important since Lucifer himself was an angel, preaches any other message that they should recieve the curse of god?

Also this I think is in common with both religions, I notice that there are 2 archangels and when Lucifer fell 1/3 of the angels went with him. What if in the trinity there was one arch angel for each piece? What if Lucifer was gods personal archangel, which would explain why he was so close to god, and when he fell the 1/3 of angels that fell were the angels under his command so when he was guilty of pride all of the other angels he was in charge of had to go with him. Basicaly what I am theorizing is what if Lucifer was god's personal archangel? this is merely speculation I can not back up this theory biblicaly

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Darkslider

Sorry, I try to be like 7-11. . . you know, "We may not be doing business, but we are always open". However, as my eyes are having a hard time focusing. . . and my fiance is already in bed. . . I go! I shall return though. As has been said before, "Darkslider is the only consistant poster" (the original quote had "for his side of the argument" or something like that. . . but since I am the only person who has been on this thread consistantly since it was in the double digits, well you get the idea) . . if you have any other questions, feel free to post them. I will answer when I can.

alright thank you for your help, honestly I probably don't know enough about my own beliefs to be picking apart yours but I think this is helpful to me.