Christians in Gaia

[Riviera de la Mancha]

xLady-Missiex

wicked_fire

I do understand this and my only answer that I can give to people like that is to read the Bible, all the answers are there.

Funny. The more I read of the Bible the stronger my assertions that it's just a story thus making me a bigger atheist. Maybe you should read the whole thing and see how confused you are.

I have read it many times and it has yet to confuse me in any serious way.

It has always been a source of truth for me. The fact that is confuses you means nothing to me. I happen to be a terrible math student, so if I told you, "This algebra makes no sense. Read the whole thing and you will see how confusing you get!", would that make any sense to you? No, because you could be a great math student, look at it and tell me, "Your really dont get this? Its quite easy for me." My own personal confusion over it has nothing to do with the actual state of the subject I observe, nor does it mandate that you wont get it .

[crystal_pepzi]

Riviera de la Mancha

crystal_pepzi

Riviera de la Mancha

crystal_pepzi

wicked_fire

Lord Setar

Why your god though? Why not Allah, or Odin, or Zeus, or even Xenu?

Because my God is The True and Only God. All of those Gods are symbols people have come up with. Do they offer eternal life? Do they care and love for their children with all their heart and soul that they would give their only begotten son to die on the cross for their sins? Answer me that.

Proof?

Yes, many do. Yes, almost all the gods and goddesses offer love to their followers.
And a better question would be Show me a god or goddess that loves us so much that they don't KILL billions of their followers and their "creations".

Of course it is the only true God. She bases her view like mine as I see and experience reality. Our God that we share in faith is the only one that is true as life has shown us. I do not intend to prove to you here and now in the sense to make you epistemically culpable to see our God as the one and only one because it is a perspective ultimately you must see to agree with. God has no interest in forcing you to do anything, and that includes believing in Him if you really dont want to do so. In proper form then, it is odd for you to demand proof for a religious belief like you would for th conclusion that 2 + 2= 4. Faith is by design ultimately incapable of creating this effect, for it is far too humanistic.

As to the veiled hint at the 'evil' defense, it stands to reason that any god of the kind biblically relayed has to logically allow for suffering to accomplish goals of importance to Him. Much like God cant create a married bachelor, a square triangle, or a flat sphere. Suffering and evil in general is a mandated occurrence.

Yeah, in other words you don't have any. K thnx.

Incorrect. I have proof, but it is not the kind that can make you believe.

It would he as if you had a lover and I asked you to prove to me 100% to such a degree that I had to believe he or she loved you. Any act, any deed, any word you could bring up is not capable of accomplishing this, for any act of love can easily be an act of deception, malice, or veiled hatred. Not a single act of love makes someone epistemically culpable to recognize your love you share with your partner. Does this invalidate your love? No, of course it doesnt, because love, like many things, is not such that it allows for epistemic culpability in the same fashion as many would expect other things to be. Love is something that only exists in your reality. I can recognize it, but that is my own free will, not me being made to agree it is in fact love you share with some person.

Thats why I find it so odd you would ask for proof in that sense.

You know what, if thats truly what you think then your religion needs to stop annoying the world by acting if god is 100% undeniably real and start saying "I believe, I think, I feel" because that would be a hell of a lot less patronizing than having someone preaching that you're going to hell because your beliefs don't match theirs.

And actually you can prove to someone that you are in love with another but it takes a lot of hormone charting, brain scans ect.

[xLady-Missiex]

Riviera de la Mancha

Incorrect. I have proof, but it is not the kind that can make you believe.

It would he as if you had a lover and I asked you to prove to me 100% to such a degree that I had to believe he or she loved you. Any act, any deed, any word you could bring up is not capable of accomplishing this, for any act of love can easily be an act of deception, malice, or veiled hatred. Not a single act of love makes someone epistemically culpable to recognize your love you share with your partner. Does this invalidate your love? No, of course it doesnt, because love, like many things, is not such that it allows for epistemic culpability in the same fashion as many would expect other things to be. Love is something that only exists in your reality. I can recognize it, but that is my own free will, not me being made to agree it is in fact love you share with some person.

That's why I find it so odd you would ask for proof in that sense.

Sure you can still say that that person does not truly love you. On the other hand at the very least you can see that person doing those deeds and actions. Your God doesn't even try to prove himself. Yes yes you all use the bible. Why hasn't God done anything for the past 2,000 years? He seemed to continually do things, both good and evil, until Jesus came. Then Jesus died, resurrected, and everything stopped. Some handful of men wrote what they remembered about Jesus. That's it. Nothing has happened since then. Are God and Jesus taking a long break? Did they die? If he was real why isn't he doing anything?

Maybe he is still around trying to get to us. There's a lot of people who said God has talked to them. Why don't you listen to them? Maybe because they're crazy? Surely you wouldn't put it pass them.

[dawnofthelight]

Riviera de la Mancha

Of course it is the only true God. She bases her view like mine as I see and experience reality. Our God that we share in faith is the only one that is true as life has shown us. I do not intend to prove to you here and now in the sense to make you epistemically culpable to see our God as the one and only one because it is a perspective ultimately you must see to agree with. God has no interest in forcing you to do anything, and that includes believing in Him if you really dont want to do so. In proper form then, it is odd for you to demand proof for a religious belief like you would for th conclusion that 2 + 2= 4. Faith is by design ultimately incapable of creating this effect, for it is far too humanistic.

2+2=4 is an axiom, or automatic principle; 'God exists' is not an axiom or automatic principle, and is a matter of fact claim, thus requiring some form of different expressible proof to be knowledge or some type of logical justification to be believed in. Tagging something "faith" does not give you the excuse to not present universal evidence, or proof, or logical justification. Also, "being in love" is not based on faith; "love" is an abstraction meant to describe a feeling you consider strong. "Love" in itself is a subjective word. It is dependent on an emotional observation. To make it credible you are in love, you need to display signs of it to me. You have not done the same with God. A mathematician could easily say 2+2=4 because I have faith it does and my personal experience proves it, which I'm not willing to share; but, guess what? He doesn't.

[wicked_fire]

xLady-Missiex

wicked_fire

Show me how "the bible can be used so easily against itself".
I personally wish that no one had to go to hell. But thats their choice. And God is there. How is it funny that Christians find other Faiths false but how you find our faith false isn't funny?

Well there are always the old codes of how to kill children, women, males, burn whole cities, and the livestock with it. Sure you can go ahead and say Jesus overwrote those old rules even though he was pissed at the Jews who didn't follow the old rules. (Matthew 22:31) How about we go into the OT and just used those rules even thought at that time they still had the 10 commandments to follow.

The ten commandments where created with Moses. The OT. One of those rules is not to Kill correct? Yet in the OT God tells how many people to go into other towns and murder every living thing in there? (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT) Even if those rules didn't hold today how could God justify sending those armies to kill then? Wouldn't that be against the commandment? Seems even God doesn't follow his own rules.

Maybe you know the "Thou shall not Steal." It's been said that this is a mistranslation where the original text said do not kidnap.

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.



Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

God approves of Murder and rape of virgins? Tsk Tsk. Even for the old times that doesn't seem very moral to a mere unsaved Atheist.

Remember though that Jesus didn't refute the old rules. These still stand.

See when people believe in something that isn't there but then say other people who believe something that isn't there are wrong.. that's irony at it's best. Atheists don't claim to believe in something that's not there. That isn't funny.

If you truly knew the Bible an ddidn't just pick and chose at what other people tell you then you would know that God said that killing in Battle was justified. So all the killing in wars and battles God commanded did not go against the 10 commandments at all.

Moses never says rape the lil girls. He says to take them as their own, as in wives. Rape is never condoned in the Bible. And moses said NOT to murder the virgins...

show me once where I said Jesus refuted the Laws of the old testament. I would appreciate if you, and others, would stop putting words into my mouth.

christians dont claim to beleive in something that isn't there either.

[dawnofthelight]

Riviera de la Mancha

Incorrect. I have proof, but it is not the kind that can make you believe.

It would he as if you had a lover and I asked you to prove to me 100% to such a degree that I had to believe he or she loved you. Any act, any deed, any word you could bring up is not capable of accomplishing this, for any act of love can easily be an act of deception, malice, or veiled hatred. Not a single act of love makes someone epistemically culpable to recognize your love you share with your partner. Does this invalidate your love? No, of course it doesnt, because love, like many things, is not such that it allows for epistemic culpability in the same fashion as many would expect other things to be. Love is something that only exists in your reality. I can recognize it, but that is my own free will, not me being made to agree it is in fact love you share with some person.

Thats why I find it so odd you would ask for proof in that sense.

Subjective proof=/=objective proof. Some subjective claims of emotional abstraction require subjective proof (e.g. 'I am in love'), objective claims require universal and objective proof (e.g. 'God exists').

[Astral Charmer]

You can't convert an athiest just b telling to them to pray and read the book. Its a lot harder than that and anyone that thinks otherwise is wrong.

I'm not athiest but i've heard conversion stories about athiests converting to the mormon or other faiths and it sometimes takes months or years. Athiests are just as strong in my opinion in what the y believe in.

[crystal_pepzi]

Riviera de la Mancha

xLady-Missiex

wicked_fire

I do understand this and my only answer that I can give to people like that is to read the Bible, all the answers are there.

Funny. The more I read of the Bible the stronger my assertions that it's just a story thus making me a bigger atheist. Maybe you should read the whole thing and see how confused you are.

I have read it many times and it has yet to confuse me in any serious way.

It has always been a source of truth for me. The fact that is confuses you means nothing to me. I happen to be a terrible math student, so if I told you, "This algebra makes no sense. Read the whole thing and you will see how confusing you get!", would that make any sense to you? No, because you could be a great math student, look at it and tell me, "Your really dont get this? Its quite easy for me." My own personal confusion over it has nothing to do with the actual state of the subject I observe, nor does it mandate that you wont get it .

So you've never wondered how a loving god would order genocide? Or why they'd ask their servant to kill his child? Or why god would order men to kill babies, rape women and tear their wombs apart?

Because that's rather confusing to me.

[wicked_fire]

dawnofthelight

Riviera de la Mancha

Of course it is the only true God. She bases her view like mine as I see and experience reality. Our God that we share in faith is the only one that is true as life has shown us. I do not intend to prove to you here and now in the sense to make you epistemically culpable to see our God as the one and only one because it is a perspective ultimately you must see to agree with. God has no interest in forcing you to do anything, and that includes believing in Him if you really dont want to do so. In proper form then, it is odd for you to demand proof for a religious belief like you would for th conclusion that 2 + 2= 4. Faith is by design ultimately incapable of creating this effect, for it is far too humanistic.

2+2=4 is an axiom, or automatic principle; 'God exists' is not an axiom or automatic principle, and is a matter of fact claim, thus requiring some form of proof to be knowledge or some type of logical justification to be believed in.

Ok how about this. You see the computer right in front of you, the walls of the house you are in, and so on. You know they exist because you can see them so thus you know they had a creater, a builder or an engineer. If you look down, or in the mirrior, you would see yourself you know that you exist thus you must have a creater.

[crystal_pepzi]

wicked_fire

xLady-Missiex

wicked_fire

Show me how "the bible can be used so easily against itself".
I personally wish that no one had to go to hell. But thats their choice. And God is there. How is it funny that Christians find other Faiths false but how you find our faith false isn't funny?

Well there are always the old codes of how to kill children, women, males, burn whole cities, and the livestock with it. Sure you can go ahead and say Jesus overwrote those old rules even though he was pissed at the Jews who didn't follow the old rules. (Matthew 22:31) How about we go into the OT and just used those rules even thought at that time they still had the 10 commandments to follow.

The ten commandments where created with Moses. The OT. One of those rules is not to Kill correct? Yet in the OT God tells how many people to go into other towns and murder every living thing in there? (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT) Even if those rules didn't hold today how could God justify sending those armies to kill then? Wouldn't that be against the commandment? Seems even God doesn't follow his own rules.

Maybe you know the "Thou shall not Steal." It's been said that this is a mistranslation where the original text said do not kidnap.

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.



Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

God approves of Murder and rape of virgins? Tsk Tsk. Even for the old times that doesn't seem very moral to a mere unsaved Atheist.

Remember though that Jesus didn't refute the old rules. These still stand.

See when people believe in something that isn't there but then say other people who believe something that isn't there are wrong.. that's irony at it's best. Atheists don't claim to believe in something that's not there. That isn't funny.

If you truly knew the Bible an ddidn't just pick and chose at what other people tell you then you would know that God said that killing in Battle was justified. So all the killing in wars and battles God commanded did not go against the 10 commandments at all.

Moses never says rape the lil girls. He says to take them as their own, as in wives. Rape is never condoned in the Bible. And moses said NOT to murder the virgins...

show me once where I said Jesus refuted the Laws of the old testament. I would appreciate if you, and others, would stop putting words into my mouth.

christians dont claim to beleive in something that isn't there either.

The fact that you somehow think murder is justified because "god said so" scares me more than anything I've ever seen in my life.
Please, please don't breed.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

dawnofthelight

xeineia

think of life like a lesson/test. Lucifer the antagonist trying to get you to fail. god needs to know if you are willing to make the sacrifice back to live eternally with him. without Lucifer this "Test" would be useless.

He wouldn't need a test if we all went to heaven or hell or if he didn't make us in the first place. Why'd he make us and/or make it so he has to test us? Couldn't he make it so it's a normal psychological ability for humans to commit evil without the devil (this is already so, but you seem to see Lucifer as a necessary component, so I assume you reject the idea of normal human capacity to commit immoral acts). Then, he would only need his omniscience and controlled circumstances or casual circumstances in the natural world to test you and know you will go to hell. He doesn't even have a reason for setting a test schema. Is he so bored he decided to make a boring game show host where he already knows the results?

I never saw any challenge from God as adversarial. I saw it as an opportunity.

There are specific things I would think a God so described would want me, a creation similar to Him, would want to create within me. Things like love, a sense of justice, and a dedication to reality, which necessarily mandate suffering or an obstacle to formulate them within my own self. This is done so that I may rise with His guidance and aide to His side. It is then not that He is some wicked professor, but a trusted guide who wants will all His will for me to be with Him. Heaven is a state that demands my activity; it is not just thrust upon me. This would make it pointless and meaningless to me as a sentient being to the degree we are. Do you care about succeeding in something you are naturally skilled at? I dont. My only pleasures come from succeeding where it was a challenge to do so.

[xLady-Missiex]

Riviera de la Mancha

xLady-Missiex

wicked_fire

I do understand this and my only answer that I can give to people like that is to read the Bible, all the answers are there.

Funny. The more I read of the Bible the stronger my assertions that it's just a story thus making me a bigger atheist. Maybe you should read the whole thing and see how confused you are.

I have read it many times and it has yet to confuse me in any serious way.

It has always been a source of truth for me. The fact that is confuses you means nothing to me. I happen to be a terrible math student, so if I told you, "This algebra makes no sense. Read the whole thing and you will see how confusing you get!", would that make any sense to you? No, because you could be a great math student, look at it and tell me, "Your really dont get this? Its quite easy for me." My own personal confusion over it has nothing to do with the actual state of the subject I observe, nor does it mandate that you wont get it .

You don't get confused as to why "these rules" need to be taken seriously (Kill gays, non-believers, naughty children) while others are needed to be taken in other ways?(No shellfish, pig, clothing made of two different fibers) Why are some ok while others are not?

Don't you think it's a little silly to gain "morals" from a book? I could read a Disney book and get better morals. In fact I think that not needing a book to gain morals proves that I, along with other atheists, have better morals than someone who doesn't do something only because they believe the sky is watching over them every second of every day to catch them doing something naughty so that it can throw them into a huge flaming pit.

It's your hell you burn in it.

[New Thought Queen]

wicked_fire

dawnofthelight

Riviera de la Mancha

Of course it is the only true God. She bases her view like mine as I see and experience reality. Our God that we share in faith is the only one that is true as life has shown us. I do not intend to prove to you here and now in the sense to make you epistemically culpable to see our God as the one and only one because it is a perspective ultimately you must see to agree with. God has no interest in forcing you to do anything, and that includes believing in Him if you really dont want to do so. In proper form then, it is odd for you to demand proof for a religious belief like you would for th conclusion that 2 + 2= 4. Faith is by design ultimately incapable of creating this effect, for it is far too humanistic.

2+2=4 is an axiom, or automatic principle; 'God exists' is not an axiom or automatic principle, and is a matter of fact claim, thus requiring some form of proof to be knowledge or some type of logical justification to be believed in.

Ok how about this. You see the computer right in front of you, the walls of the house you are in, and so on. You know they exist because you can see them so thus you know they had a creater, a builder or an engineer. If you look down, or in the mirrior, you would see yourself you know that you exist thus you must have a creater.

One of the worst analogies Iv'e heard in a very very long time.

[Fabulesque]

nickrawkzout

Deadly Delusion VIII

nickrawkzout

Deadly Delusion VIII

wicked_fire

Deadly Delusion VIII

Yes, because someone who loves us would definitely put us through eternal suffering just because we don't believe in him.

He doesn't send people to hell for not believeing in him, he sends them to hell for sinning against him.

And for not "accepting Jesus into their hearts", which is basically the same as saying "Those who don't believe in God"

That's because we're not perfect and can never be perfect. The only way out of sin is to ask forgiveness and the only way to do that is by asking Jesus into your life to help you. That's why we accept Jesus into our hearts and have a personal relationship with Him.

And this is exactly my point.

Everyone sins at some point in life, and those who are not Christian can not ask for forgiveness, since they don't even believe in God in the first place.

So it all amounts up to not believeing in God. Well what would you expect if you created the world and everything in it. You expect to be treated with respect, and at least believe that you exist. Have you ever gotten the cold shoulder? Like people don't even believe you're there right in front of you? This is exactly it. God wants to help everyone out, and the first step is to believe in Him.

It isn't enough just to believe in God. As it is written in James 2:19, "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder." Although it is important to believe in the Biblical God, that alone does not make you a Christian. This is how to become a Christian:
First, we acknowledge that we've sinned,and done things that displease God. Romans 3:23, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."
Second, we realize that because God is holy and cannot be around sin, we cannot enter heaven on our own. Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Third, the only way we can enter heaven is if our sins are removed. God did this by sending His perfect only Son, placing our sin upon him, and sacrificing him instead of us. Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Furthermore, God raised up Christ from the dead and now Jesus intercedes for us. Romans 8:34 "Who then can condemn? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us."
Fourth, we must accept the love of Jesus and that through his crucifixion, our sins are wiped away. Then we must confess Jesus as our Lord, meaning that we give up our lives every day, and do God's will. This means studying the Bible every day and living according to its teachings.
After understanding and accepting all this, then we receive the benefits of a relationship with Christ. Romans 5:1 reads "Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ..." Please realize, however, that "peace" does not mean that life is snow cones and puppies from here on out. It means that no matter what happens, you can rest in the fact that the Creator of everything is watching out for you. Sometimes life hurts. Romans 5:2-5 "...through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us." No matter what, everything God does in a Christian's life is for ultimate good.

[dawnofthelight]

wicked_fire

dawnofthelight

Riviera de la Mancha

Of course it is the only true God. She bases her view like mine as I see and experience reality. Our God that we share in faith is the only one that is true as life has shown us. I do not intend to prove to you here and now in the sense to make you epistemically culpable to see our God as the one and only one because it is a perspective ultimately you must see to agree with. God has no interest in forcing you to do anything, and that includes believing in Him if you really dont want to do so. In proper form then, it is odd for you to demand proof for a religious belief like you would for th conclusion that 2 + 2= 4. Faith is by design ultimately incapable of creating this effect, for it is far too humanistic.

2+2=4 is an axiom, or automatic principle; 'God exists' is not an axiom or automatic principle, and is a matter of fact claim, thus requiring some form of proof to be knowledge or some type of logical justification to be believed in.

Ok how about this. You see the computer right in front of you, the walls of the house you are in, and so on. You know they exist because you can see them so thus you know they had a creater, a builder or an engineer. If you look down, or in the mirrior, you would see yourself you know that you exist thus you must have a creater.

No. Who says existence must require a creator? I can only prove the universe or the cosmos have a creator if I have proof of the creator; thus I can only prove something is a creation if a creator is shown to exist. You're assuming this is a creation before justifying the existence of a creator to deduce that there is therefore a creator. Circular reasoning.