Why are so many of gaia's lolita items so... "ita" looking?

[Rhosynne]

Day7

I uh

I've always thought lolita clothes were just black poofy lace dresses


I didn't know they were... japanese victorian style dresses

Yeah, pretty much. Though it depends entirely on the brand, tbh. Mary Magdalene and Innocent World play up that, and it's called elegant Lolita. Sweet are typically things from Baby the Stars Shine Bright or Angelic Pretty. The latter dabbles in all sorts of subtypes of the fashion... BtSSB has an off shoot of more elegant stuff with Alice and the Pirates.

[Steeple]

Jayce Reinhardt

I don't think it has anything to do with the Avi waist because the stuff I am wearing has the waist close to the actual hips. Additionaly, the new Sailor moon dress that just came out is elegant, form fitting and shows where the hips are perfectly.

This is also lolita


And this



But the way Gaia does it is like this

well what i mean is, Gaia is making dresses with am empire waist, whereas the ones you're looking for have the waist at the beltline. so gaia needs to make diff cut dresses when making new lolita items, right?

[Jayce Reinhardt]

Steeple

well what i mean is, Gaia is making dresses with am empire waist, whereas the ones you're looking for have the waist at the beltline. so gaia needs to make diff cut dresses when making new lolita items, right?

If they can, it just seems like they have a thing for waistlines right under the bewb and there is more to lolita than just one type.

[Valiska Pines]

Imperious Condescension

For those who don't know "ita" is basically really bad lolita that's painful to look at. Usually very awkwardly cut, bulky, and has a lot of lace all over the place.
And a lot of gaia's lolita items are really lacy and huge.
Like, I could suffocate a gaia baby with it.
Is it because maybe the artists are more familiar with "anime lolita" and thinks that's what it looks like? Or do they just kind of go with what they think they know?

Granted, I don't think myself as a "lolita" expert. Mooostly because I can't afford to dress it IRL at the minute. (Saving up for my first coord, though) But I do know some basic faux-pas of the style.

I am a lolita. My #1 frustration with lolita items on Gaia is not the amount of lace. (What makes a lace monster ita-tastic is not the amount of lace, but rather the bad quality of the lace and the unfortunate placement of the lace.)

My #1 frustration is the complete inability to layer sleeveless dresses (jumperskirts) over blouses and under jackets. Unless it is extremely hot or the occasion is extremely casual, lolitas do not go around with bare shoulders, and cleavage is absolutely unacceptable. This is as basic as it gets. Contrary to some Western opinions, there are multiple acceptable skirt lengths and shapes, but you don't see cleavage ever.

My #2 frustration is the confusion of maids with lolitas. Some of the dresses look similar, but lolitas are not servants. Ever. Part of the problem is that the kind of guy who proudly calls himself Otaku uses "loli' to mean any young girl, but this is even written differently in modern Japanese, because Otaku loli is an anime porn genre that lolitas want NOTHING to do with.

ETA: apparently this originally said "anime port" not porn, because I suck at typing on my cellphone.

[Rhosynne]

Aradia Dracaena

Imperious Condescension

For those who don't know "ita" is basically really bad lolita that's painful to look at. Usually very awkwardly cut, bulky, and has a lot of lace all over the place.
And a lot of gaia's lolita items are really lacy and huge.
Like, I could suffocate a gaia baby with it.
Is it because maybe the artists are more familiar with "anime lolita" and thinks that's what it looks like? Or do they just kind of go with what they think they know?

Granted, I don't think myself as a "lolita" expert. Mooostly because I can't afford to dress it IRL at the minute. (Saving up for my first coord, though) But I do know some basic faux-pas of the style.

I am a lolita. My #1 frustration with lolita items on Gaia is not the amount of lace. (What makes a lace monster ita-tastic is not the amount of lace, but rather the bad quality of the lace and the unfortunate placement of the lace.)

My #1 frustration is the complete inability to layer sleeveless dresses (jumperskirts) over blouses and under jackets. Unless it is extremely hot or the occasion is extremely casual, lolitas do not go around with bare shoulders, and cleavage is absolutely unacceptable. This is as basic as it gets. Contrary to some Western opinions, there are multiple acceptable skirt lengths and shapes, but you don't see cleavage ever.

My #2 frustration is the confusion of maids with lolitas. Some of the dresses look similar, but lolitas are not servants. Ever. Part of the problem is that the kind of guy who proudly calls himself Otaku uses "loli' to mean any young girl, but this is even written differently in modern Japanese, because Otaku loli is an anime port genre that lolitas want NOTHING to do with.

I know this is a bit nosy, but you might want to check Dapper Dandy for your first frustration. There's a lovely shirt pose that actually layers under many JSKs.

[Steeple]

Jayce Reinhardt

Steeple

well what i mean is, Gaia is making dresses with am empire waist, whereas the ones you're looking for have the waist at the beltline. so gaia needs to make diff cut dresses when making new lolita items, right?

If they can, it just seems like they have a thing for waistlines right under the bewb and there is more to lolita than just one type.

yeah it'd be nice if they could get a variety going; single silhouettes get boring after a while, but also limits the options in making outfits

[Valiska Pines]

taphies

Aradia Dracaena

Imperious Condescension

For those who don't know "ita" is basically really bad lolita that's painful to look at. Usually very awkwardly cut, bulky, and has a lot of lace all over the place.
And a lot of gaia's lolita items are really lacy and huge.
Like, I could suffocate a gaia baby with it.
Is it because maybe the artists are more familiar with "anime lolita" and thinks that's what it looks like? Or do they just kind of go with what they think they know?

Granted, I don't think myself as a "lolita" expert. Mooostly because I can't afford to dress it IRL at the minute. (Saving up for my first coord, though) But I do know some basic faux-pas of the style.

I am a lolita. My #1 frustration with lolita items on Gaia is not the amount of lace. (What makes a lace monster ita-tastic is not the amount of lace, but rather the bad quality of the lace and the unfortunate placement of the lace.)

My #1 frustration is the complete inability to layer sleeveless dresses (jumperskirts) over blouses and under jackets. Unless it is extremely hot or the occasion is extremely casual, lolitas do not go around with bare shoulders, and cleavage is absolutely unacceptable. This is as basic as it gets. Contrary to some Western opinions, there are multiple acceptable skirt lengths and shapes, but you don't see cleavage ever.

My #2 frustration is the confusion of maids with lolitas. Some of the dresses look similar, but lolitas are not servants. Ever. Part of the problem is that the kind of guy who proudly calls himself Otaku uses "loli' to mean any young girl, but this is even written differently in modern Japanese, because Otaku loli is an anime port genre that lolitas want NOTHING to do with.

I know this is a bit nosy, but you might want to check Dapper Dandy for your first frustration. There's a lovely shirt pose that actually layers under many JSKs.

You mean Dappy Dandy? Thanks, I hadn't seen that item before! It's got a lot of super cute poses smile

[Valiska Pines]

Jayce Reinhardt

The main complaint I have with it? (besides the spamming us with so much of it?)


MY AVI'S WAIST IS NOT RIGHT UNDERNEATH HER BEWBS!!!!!!!!!

The waist complaint is legit but I haven't seen too many items on Gaia that are ACTUALLY lolita, as opposed to simply being frilly.

Maid/servant/cafe girl = NOT lolita.

Visible lingerie = NOT lolita.

Visible cleavage = NOT lolita.

Bare shoulders = NOT lolita.

Mori girl (lots of lace, but asymmetric layering, semi-shapeless, woodsy motifs) = NOT lolita.

I've been following lolita style since 1999 and I've been wearing lolita and going to meetups since 2011 (and before that I occasionally wore lolita inspired outfits to parties) and there's an awful lot of stuff tagged "lolita" on Gaia that isn't even ita-lolita. It is frustrating, to someone who actually IS a lolita.

You can use pieces from some of the maid/cafe items in a lolita coordinate, but once you've crossed the line into "obvious servant" territory you've gone too far. I use Keiko's X and Cafe X items a lot with the little Lucie items when I want to do lolita. The Sweet Lace and Porcelina items are lolita, the G-LOL stuff is actually pretty borderline (the long dresses aren't lolita--there are longer dresses in lolita these days but they don't look like that).

Lately I have been really impressed with the Glacia series, Diamonds and Ice series and X Diamond series. I like the Flatline Love series too.

But there's a lot of stuff that gets tagged lolita just because it's "girly"--No Trouble isn't lolita, though you can use some of the pieces in a lolita look. The Memento series is more mori than lolita. And so on...

[Little Antique]

I think there's a good amount of items that is lolita enough. There are just a lot of limitations because of the base. I'm glad that there's a lot of mori girl too. Very few (or none) of these exist back in '08 when I joined. I think Keiko's cake and Runcible spoon paved the way. If it's not much trouble, I think it would be good for OP to link items that is considerably "ita" to serve as example. It might be helpful to artists too.

[Valiska Pines]

Imperious Condescension

Utenko

hornworts

probably because, like with most things on Gaia, contemporary fashion fads get exaggerated and beaten to death in the form of items

hell we're still getting pastel goth/soft grunge fashions-- s**t that everyone stopped making fun of in 2012. it's no wonder Gaia would misunderstand lolita fashion as well and make it look torrid

Aaaaallllll of this. Gaia is super behind on the popular trends in alternative fashion (I'd die of happiness if they stopped making those ugly a** pastel goth/soft grunge POS items) which is probably why the Lolita items look super anime-ish. I remember back in 2003 that would've been *somewhat* okay since a lot of people in the west didn't know much about Lolita but seeing as how there's a ton of resources on it now, Gaia could do a better job. I know Gaia always has and always will have anime at its core but man... Can they make some less tacky Lolita items?

It's so hard to make a nice coord on here without making it a trite outfit. crying
Especially avoiding maid and lace monsters.

Kelso The Great

Your assessment is lolita is slightly true. It's main focus is elegance above all else and also modesty in most of its sub genres. (within the exception of ero-lolita and even that's modest compared to most other fashions) But as within any fashion there are things that are considered faux pas. There are things that are considered "no-no's" within any fashion, despite whether personal taste or not. The fashion world is a very critical place. To think otherwise is kind of contradictory of what makes things "fashionable" in the first place. Too much lace is considered unfashionable within the lolita community.
Yeah, you can have a bunch of lace and have big cuts and maybe show off some cleavage. But to most lolitas you're not doing it right. There's a STYLE to style.

Cleavage in lolita is like a huge faux pas. There are arguments about uncovered knees--some people like them, some people don't, and most people understand that when American and European women wear clothes intended for Japanese girls, occasionally knees are gonna happen if you're wearing socks rather than tights; it's OK as long as your dress is within a few inches of your knees and not just barely covering your butt. But cleavage is a pretty big no-no because unlike knees, it's pretty easy to cover up if you are wearing a proper blouse.

However, lots of lace is making a comeback. In the late 90s and early 00s a lot of the brands were putting out dresses that were practically dripping with it, but the low-end tacky "lacemonsters" put out by Bodyline and cosplay brands turned everyone off. Now that even Bodyline and Joybank have got away from that...BTSSB re-released a lot of their old styles recently.

TBH my first lolita brand dress was BTSSB Millefeuille which is a black dress with a ton of white lace on it, but it's Baby so it's really good lace and it's LL size so it fits me super well. I love it a lot and wear it fairly often. With the right blouse, it's very far from ita-no-kuni (ita land).

[Valiska Pines]

Imperious Condescension

Bunny-Lolita-Chan

At least now there are items that are very well-made in the aspect of lolita fashion. I remember years ago it was sooo hard to make a lolita avatar because of the lack of decent-looking items. gonk

Yeeees. I Adore JSKs and blouses. The Diamonds and Ice Skirts are so nice. crying
I am so mad at myself because I delayed getting the dogtooth apprentice sorcerer skirt from meta when I had the money and now it's sold out.
I loved how simple, yet adorable, that skirt was. I was pulling together a whole coord.

My love for Diamonds and Ice is deep and unholy. I'm also a big fan of the Glacia items and the lolita pieces in the new Silver/Dark/Unbroken Eclipse set.

Also the cage skirt in the X Like Rose series...I freakin love that.

[Catena Carswell]

I think it varies from artist to artist more than anything. Some of the artists are (were? I haven't been keeping track of art staff rotation) much more familiar with lolita than others. It shows.

[Valiska Pines]

Bunny-Lolita-Chan

Imperious Condescension

Bunny-Lolita-Chan

Imperious Condescension

Bunny-Lolita-Chan

I thought it was rather lovely too, but I only use animal avatars on this account! Theres some beautifully detailed items like Keiko's Cake and it's recolors, Heartfelt Trixie and its recolors done very well, but then you have your items like Vibrant Sunshine and Lethal Yandere that have questionable colors and silhouettes.

But over-all, Gaia is getting better with their "lolita" items. I just wish half the items in the lolita tag weren't tagged by it. emotion_facepalm

Funny, I'm actually working on a coord with keikos cake, now. emotion_awesome
I'm trying to make a different coord every day. I have 3,000 items. Im sure it's doable

Back in the day I used that item a lot and made great matching avatars with it, but I forget the items I used. ; w ;
I know that new shortcake item that was in the cash shop would go with it! Also, try Cafe Miam with it, the bonnet, blouse and couple other poses work very well for it. Also, try Casseopia Cutie shoes, they make your feet look smaller and the shoes match the skirt~ emotion_yatta

Thanks for the tips!
I was going to try and get the Lovie Raine for the feet, but there were no listings.
So I just made do with an item i already had.

Try the other rainies, but I can't remember off-hand other leg mods and stuff II used to use with it. My brains kind of tired from the day. xd
So far you look good though! I like the hair~

Great lolita leg mods:

The Rainie series
The Night Party series
The Porcelain Doll series
Sullen Lullaby series
Diamonds and Ice
Keiko's X
The Half Sister
The Princess of X series
The Holy Flower series booties
The Stellar X series

The booties in the Dark/Lilac/Malevolent/Monochrome Heart series look almost EXACTLY like some Queen Bee shoes I've drooled over. (Queen Bee is a Japanese lolita bag and shoe brand.)

This brings me to Frustration #3 - generally, basic pumps or flats without an ankle strap or instep strap aren't worn in lolita, but a lot of the lolitable Gaian series like X Diamond, the non-Lady Lucies, and Creme X are plain pumps or ballet flats.

[Valiska Pines]

Obsequious Minion

Admittedly, as someone who is absolutely unfamiliar with Lolita style, I have no idea what "good" lolita would even look like... It would be sort of helpful for us outsiders to see a side-by-side comparison. I always assumed that the kind of stuff gaia does is the standard, only chibified. lol

There're a lot of places you can see examples of good lolita.

EGL on Live Journal

The Angelic Pretty USA Facebook page has pictures of everyone who comes to the Anniversary teas every year, most of those coords are great because the Anniversary teas attract girls who spend way too much money on AP (I'm one of them lol).

[Valiska Pines]

Obsequious Minion

Imperious Condescension

Obsequious Minion

Admittedly, as someone who is absolutely unfamiliar with Lolita style, I have no idea what "good" lolita would even look like... It would be sort of helpful for us outsiders to see a side-by-side comparison. I always assumed that the kind of stuff gaia does is the standard, only chibified. lol

www.lolita-tips.tumblr.com

Just going by the examples I saw on the first 10-15 pages of that blog, I'd say maybe the artists aren't translating it to the avi's proportions in a way that appeals to you/the lolita community? A lot of the fabrics seem to have a TON of tiny intricate detail, and that just seems extremely difficult to translate down to pixel clothing. If they don't make it big and bulky and exaggerated, it probably would end up looking busy and terrible.

That and, yes, I think that they are really favoring the kind of clothing they see on anime characters.That's what gaia is built on.

You're right that it's hard to do the border prints at Gaia-scale, although Keiko's Cake and Cafe Miam (and recolours) did a really excellent job.

The Flatline Love series would make a really great lolita design too.

I don't have a problem with Gaia doing the kind of clothing worn by anime characters. I don't think anyone else in this thread does, either. It's when it's tagged and promoted as lolita that I'm tempted to get shirty about it. I just wish they wouldn't call it "lolita" unless it actually is.

I am 100% fine with there being tons of anime clothes on the site. But if you're going to call it lolita, it ought to not, for instance, have a wrap skirt that barely covers your kitty in front and is halfway down your calves in back, because nothing in lolita looks even remotely like that, and yet I see this in items that are tagged lolita all the time here.