To the users who buy items at an inflated price in the MP...

[happy suprize]

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

Hanni Baal

I mean. Yes. It is technically fair. It isn't nice or anything, at all but it sure as hell is fair.

And if it IS truly against the rules, I honestly had no idea about it. I never saw anything about it being said or written on the site.

But for discussion's sake - say I wanted to hoard all of the Item X on the site purely because I want to. That's my right as a user, to just collect multiple copies of an item because it tickles my fancy. How is that any less or more fair than just selling the said item for money? At least selling it for profit makes it available on the market.

Selling high does not mean inflated items multiple times on multiple accounts aka mules. Not only because it's messing up the economy but because it's against TOS.
Don't believe me? You don't have to. But I dare you to look at other posts that mentioned it and come tell me (or them) that you don't believe because your rights as a user is above all else. But it doesn't slide with the TOS. Trust me.
As a matter of fact, I could bring up a couple of posts that explains what I'm talking about if you like to see for yourself.

Where in the TOS does it state that? I've looked and haven't seen a single thing on it. Can you provide that?

Because last I checked, the TOS does state that the items and account that you have aren't technically yours. You have no ownership of anything, all Gaia does is lease you out items. As long as you don't break the TOS that you signed when you created the account. If you do break the TOS, and get perma banned then everything you bought with real money becomes forfeit and you lose everything.

Part of me wants to say that saying something in the TOS, and filing a false report is going to land you in more hot water, than someone buying low and selling high.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

Even if I did, then what? It wouldn't stop users with mules inflating items in the marketplace would it? No it would not.
And certain users will act like it's okay because their greed is being fulfilled
(AS LONG as their greed is being fulfilled).

Again selling high does not mean inflating items.
Why do you guys find this so acceptable? I don't understand the sentiment.

Except that you can't prove that.

This is what I see happening more so, someone lists it at x price. It ends up getting unlisted because the x amount of days they selected ended up lapsing. They sell other things. That item probably went to their mule because they ran out of room, and because there hasn't been any listings, then the price is fixed at whatever that last price was.

And if someone uses Gaia Upgrade and undercuts it will either undercut from the lbp, the abp, both or somehow it will glitch and when you hit submit you'll get the finalized price that seems extremely high. That is more likely to be happening than what you have seen.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

Well, I posted the TOS in a previous post on the 6th page and you're welcome to see it or I can post it again if you want me to.
I'm not saying it's wrong to use mules. It's wrong to use them to inflate items to the point there is no listings, and then re-list them at inflated prices.
That's what I'm trying to say but you're making me look like the bad guy for speaking up on it.

I'm well aware of the second paragraph. Trust me I agree with that because I've used that feature on gaiaupgrade myself but ONLY because users inflating the prices in the mp is unjustified not just for greed (I get making a profit I'm not against that but not just inflating prices over and over again on mules just because I can and can get away with uhm no) but I stopped because I quit using Gaia on my laptop that I now use on my phone and unfortunately I can't use gaiaupgrade on my phone so I'm SOL there. And I accept that. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[Atelier Ari]

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

Leothalis the Sorcerer

CptDeadCraft

gaia needs to stop throwing covers over people and things breaking the site and saying if we don't look at it it doesnt matter.

We should be able to name these people and fully expose them without fear of punishment. Turning a blind eye to it will only allow it to thrive.

There should be a vendor black list, or a gaia BBB.

No.
It won't stop vendors from listing things for higher than average/inflated prices. All you'd be doing in that situation is allowing people to harass others, which we don't need.

The only ways to stop them is either to rely on other users to combat their bullshit or go against the concept of a free market and regulate the MP in such a way that they won't be able to function.
And I'd rather rely on the first of the two proposed, because that can work in Gaia's favor so long as they help rerelease items.

There's a guild I came across called MM: Marketplace Manipulation
(I didn't think such a guild existed or could exist)
And at the end of their intro states - Artificial Inflation is not against Gaia's TOS and we have proof of this.
So I said okaaaaay but when #7 of the TOS mentioned at the end

7. Gold/Platinum, Virtual Currency. Throughout your Gaia Online experience, you may accumulate "Gold/Platinum", which constitutes a limited license right to use a feature of Gaia Online when, as, and if allowed by Gaia. Gold/Platinum is the fictional currency used in the world of Gaia Online and it may only be used to purchase virtual goods or virtual services which are stored in the Member's inventory and can be used to enhance the look of the Member's on-line persona or player, also known as an "Avatar", or other on-site features. Gaia may charge fees for the right to use Gold/Platinum, or may distribute Gold/Platinum without charge, in its sole discretion. Regardless of terminology used, Gold/Platinum represents a limited license right governed solely under these Terms, has no real value, and is not transferable or redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Gaia at any time. As a condition of using Gaia Online and accumulating Gold/Platinum, you agree that Gaia has the absolute right to reduce, manage, regulate, control, modify and/or eliminate Gold/Platinum, including the Gold/Platinum in your inventory, as it sees fit in its sole discretion, and that Gaia will have no liability to you based on its exercise of such rights. Upon your closing of your account or the termination of your account by Gaia as provided in these terms, you understand that your limited license to use Gold/Platinum will be terminated and that no sum shall be due and owing to you for the Gold/Platinum accumulated in your inventory or account. Notwithstanding any other language to the contrary, as used in these Terms and throughout Gaia Online in the context of Gold/Platinum transfers: (a) the term "sell" means "to transfer for consideration to another Member or Gaia the licensed right to use Gold/Platinum in accordance with these Terms" and (b) the term "buy" means "to receive for consideration from another Member or Gaia the licensed right to use Gold/Platinum in accordance with these Terms". Gaia may halt, suspend, discontinue, or reverse any Gold/Platinum transaction (whether proposed, pending or past) in cases of actual or suspected fraud, violations of these Terms or other laws or regulations, to conform with revisions to these Terms, or deliberate disruptions to or interference with Gaia Online, such as creating multiple secondary accounts strictly to accumulate Gold/Platinum by using site features and then funneling it to a singular account.

Sounds controversial but what am I supposed to think? ???___???

Then every single user is subject to being banned because we all use mules, because 50 slots isn't enough when you have thousands of items which takes a lot of pages. So let's ban every single person so that you and a few people are even on this site, so that way Gaia tanks.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

Or we can continue to let users use multiple accounts to mass but items, to the point they're no listings, but then wait a moment, then re-relist them and hijack the prices to the point their inflated no one can/is willing to buy.
That way you and many users who agree with that can continue to manipulate the marketplace.
Also Gaia was tanking a long time ago when hyperinflation happened.
It's not new that they're struggling to stay afloat.
But what do I know right? I'm just someone who disagrees with manipulating the marketplace at user's disadvantage huh?

Except thats not happening at the rate you're claiming. We're talking about a small handfull of people that may do it. But again there is no proof that this is going on.

I've even taken the liberty of asking a mod to confirm this or deny it, as you're supposed to if you don't understand parts of the TOS. Instead of using it as a weapon and scaring people off.

If you feel that so strongly that they're doing such a thing, why haven't you reported them or let a mod know this is going on?

And I'm not manipulating the market. I have it UNDERCUTTING at 20%. However it doesn't specify whether its lbp or abp. Like I said, SOMETIMES it undercuts from the lowest buy price. Sometimes it undercuts from the abp. Sometimes it glitches and shows a higher amount, until I hit submit and then it fixes itself. I don't mess with it because I have a large inventory, I'm not going to start digging for items. If someone wants to buy it that's fine.

That's not me manipulating the market. That's Gaiaupgrade having a mind of it's own, and doing what it wants. So is it far to punish me for having more than 50 items and using a third party add on to undercut prices and make s**t easier? Smart money says it's not. Smart money says that's a lot worse, and could constitute as trolling or being abusive..since you're making false accusations and I don't appreciate that.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

[Atelier Ari]

She's beauty, she's grace.

Leothalis the Sorcerer

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

Leothalis the Sorcerer

CptDeadCraft

gaia needs to stop throwing covers over people and things breaking the site and saying if we don't look at it it doesnt matter.

We should be able to name these people and fully expose them without fear of punishment. Turning a blind eye to it will only allow it to thrive.

There should be a vendor black list, or a gaia BBB.

No.
It won't stop vendors from listing things for higher than average/inflated prices. All you'd be doing in that situation is allowing people to harass others, which we don't need.

The only ways to stop them is either to rely on other users to combat their bullshit or go against the concept of a free market and regulate the MP in such a way that they won't be able to function.
And I'd rather rely on the first of the two proposed, because that can work in Gaia's favor so long as they help rerelease items.

There's a guild I came across called MM: Marketplace Manipulation
(I didn't think such a guild existed or could exist)
And at the end of their intro states - Artificial Inflation is not against Gaia's TOS and we have proof of this.
So I said okaaaaay but when #7 of the TOS mentioned at the end

7. Gold/Platinum, Virtual Currency. Throughout your Gaia Online experience, you may accumulate "Gold/Platinum", which constitutes a limited license right to use a feature of Gaia Online when, as, and if allowed by Gaia. Gold/Platinum is the fictional currency used in the world of Gaia Online and it may only be used to purchase virtual goods or virtual services which are stored in the Member's inventory and can be used to enhance the look of the Member's on-line persona or player, also known as an "Avatar", or other on-site features. Gaia may charge fees for the right to use Gold/Platinum, or may distribute Gold/Platinum without charge, in its sole discretion. Regardless of terminology used, Gold/Platinum represents a limited license right governed solely under these Terms, has no real value, and is not transferable or redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Gaia at any time. As a condition of using Gaia Online and accumulating Gold/Platinum, you agree that Gaia has the absolute right to reduce, manage, regulate, control, modify and/or eliminate Gold/Platinum, including the Gold/Platinum in your inventory, as it sees fit in its sole discretion, and that Gaia will have no liability to you based on its exercise of such rights. Upon your closing of your account or the termination of your account by Gaia as provided in these terms, you understand that your limited license to use Gold/Platinum will be terminated and that no sum shall be due and owing to you for the Gold/Platinum accumulated in your inventory or account. Notwithstanding any other language to the contrary, as used in these Terms and throughout Gaia Online in the context of Gold/Platinum transfers: (a) the term "sell" means "to transfer for consideration to another Member or Gaia the licensed right to use Gold/Platinum in accordance with these Terms" and (b) the term "buy" means "to receive for consideration from another Member or Gaia the licensed right to use Gold/Platinum in accordance with these Terms". Gaia may halt, suspend, discontinue, or reverse any Gold/Platinum transaction (whether proposed, pending or past) in cases of actual or suspected fraud, violations of these Terms or other laws or regulations, to conform with revisions to these Terms, or deliberate disruptions to or interference with Gaia Online, such as creating multiple secondary accounts strictly to accumulate Gold/Platinum by using site features and then funneling it to a singular account.

Sounds controversial but what am I supposed to think? ???___???

Then every single user is subject to being banned because we all use mules, because 50 slots isn't enough when you have thousands of items which takes a lot of pages. So let's ban every single person so that you and a few people are even on this site, so that way Gaia tanks.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

I don't use my mule to sell stuff. So I just kinda disproved your hyperbole, for whatever that's worth.

Leo I'm not even talking about you. You're the exception, not the rule.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

[Atelier Ari]

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

Hanni Baal

I mean. Yes. It is technically fair. It isn't nice or anything, at all but it sure as hell is fair.

And if it IS truly against the rules, I honestly had no idea about it. I never saw anything about it being said or written on the site.

But for discussion's sake - say I wanted to hoard all of the Item X on the site purely because I want to. That's my right as a user, to just collect multiple copies of an item because it tickles my fancy. How is that any less or more fair than just selling the said item for money? At least selling it for profit makes it available on the market.

Selling high does not mean inflated items multiple times on multiple accounts aka mules. Not only because it's messing up the economy but because it's against TOS.
Don't believe me? You don't have to. But I dare you to look at other posts that mentioned it and come tell me (or them) that you don't believe because your rights as a user is above all else. But it doesn't slide with the TOS. Trust me.
As a matter of fact, I could bring up a couple of posts that explains what I'm talking about if you like to see for yourself.

Where in the TOS does it state that? I've looked and haven't seen a single thing on it. Can you provide that?

Because last I checked, the TOS does state that the items and account that you have aren't technically yours. You have no ownership of anything, all Gaia does is lease you out items. As long as you don't break the TOS that you signed when you created the account. If you do break the TOS, and get perma banned then everything you bought with real money becomes forfeit and you lose everything.

Part of me wants to say that saying something in the TOS, and filing a false report is going to land you in more hot water, than someone buying low and selling high.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

Even if I did, then what? It wouldn't stop users with mules inflating items in the marketplace would it? No it would not.
And certain users will act like it's okay because their greed is being fulfilled
(AS LONG as their greed is being fulfilled).

Again selling high does not mean inflating items.
Why do you guys find this so acceptable? I don't understand the sentiment.

Except that you can't prove that.

This is what I see happening more so, someone lists it at x price. It ends up getting unlisted because the x amount of days they selected ended up lapsing. They sell other things. That item probably went to their mule because they ran out of room, and because there hasn't been any listings, then the price is fixed at whatever that last price was.

And if someone uses Gaia Upgrade and undercuts it will either undercut from the lbp, the abp, both or somehow it will glitch and when you hit submit you'll get the finalized price that seems extremely high. That is more likely to be happening than what you have seen.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

Well, I posted the TOS in a previous post on the 6th page and you're welcome to see it or I can post it again if you want me to.
I'm not saying it's wrong to use mules. It's wrong to use them to inflate items to the point there is no listings, and then re-list them at inflated prices.
That's what I'm trying to say but you're making me look like the bad guy for speaking up on it.

I'm well aware of the second paragraph. Trust me I agree with that because I've used that feature on gaiaupgrade myself but ONLY because users inflating the prices in the mp is unjustified not just for greed (I get making a profit I'm not against that but not just inflating prices over and over again on mules just because I can and can get away with uhm no) but I stopped because I quit using Gaia on my laptop that I now use on my phone and unfortunately I can't use gaiaupgrade on my phone so I'm SOL there. And I accept that. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Again that's not what's going on and if you go back to my initial post, or even a few posts in a similiar thread in this subforum I explained the very simple math behind it.

For the abp to work you have to have more than one listing. If you don't have that then the system will default to what it was before until there are multiple listings. Math doesn't lie and is always consistent.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

[Leothalis the Sorcerer]

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Leothalis the Sorcerer

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

Leothalis the Sorcerer

CptDeadCraft

gaia needs to stop throwing covers over people and things breaking the site and saying if we don't look at it it doesnt matter.

We should be able to name these people and fully expose them without fear of punishment. Turning a blind eye to it will only allow it to thrive.

There should be a vendor black list, or a gaia BBB.

No.
It won't stop vendors from listing things for higher than average/inflated prices. All you'd be doing in that situation is allowing people to harass others, which we don't need.

The only ways to stop them is either to rely on other users to combat their bullshit or go against the concept of a free market and regulate the MP in such a way that they won't be able to function.
And I'd rather rely on the first of the two proposed, because that can work in Gaia's favor so long as they help rerelease items.

There's a guild I came across called MM: Marketplace Manipulation
(I didn't think such a guild existed or could exist)
And at the end of their intro states - Artificial Inflation is not against Gaia's TOS and we have proof of this.
So I said okaaaaay but when #7 of the TOS mentioned at the end

7. Gold/Platinum, Virtual Currency. Throughout your Gaia Online experience, you may accumulate "Gold/Platinum", which constitutes a limited license right to use a feature of Gaia Online when, as, and if allowed by Gaia. Gold/Platinum is the fictional currency used in the world of Gaia Online and it may only be used to purchase virtual goods or virtual services which are stored in the Member's inventory and can be used to enhance the look of the Member's on-line persona or player, also known as an "Avatar", or other on-site features. Gaia may charge fees for the right to use Gold/Platinum, or may distribute Gold/Platinum without charge, in its sole discretion. Regardless of terminology used, Gold/Platinum represents a limited license right governed solely under these Terms, has no real value, and is not transferable or redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Gaia at any time. As a condition of using Gaia Online and accumulating Gold/Platinum, you agree that Gaia has the absolute right to reduce, manage, regulate, control, modify and/or eliminate Gold/Platinum, including the Gold/Platinum in your inventory, as it sees fit in its sole discretion, and that Gaia will have no liability to you based on its exercise of such rights. Upon your closing of your account or the termination of your account by Gaia as provided in these terms, you understand that your limited license to use Gold/Platinum will be terminated and that no sum shall be due and owing to you for the Gold/Platinum accumulated in your inventory or account. Notwithstanding any other language to the contrary, as used in these Terms and throughout Gaia Online in the context of Gold/Platinum transfers: (a) the term "sell" means "to transfer for consideration to another Member or Gaia the licensed right to use Gold/Platinum in accordance with these Terms" and (b) the term "buy" means "to receive for consideration from another Member or Gaia the licensed right to use Gold/Platinum in accordance with these Terms". Gaia may halt, suspend, discontinue, or reverse any Gold/Platinum transaction (whether proposed, pending or past) in cases of actual or suspected fraud, violations of these Terms or other laws or regulations, to conform with revisions to these Terms, or deliberate disruptions to or interference with Gaia Online, such as creating multiple secondary accounts strictly to accumulate Gold/Platinum by using site features and then funneling it to a singular account.

Sounds controversial but what am I supposed to think? ???___???

Then every single user is subject to being banned because we all use mules, because 50 slots isn't enough when you have thousands of items which takes a lot of pages. So let's ban every single person so that you and a few people are even on this site, so that way Gaia tanks.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

I don't use my mule to sell stuff. So I just kinda disproved your hyperbole, for whatever that's worth.

Leo I'm not even talking about you. You're the exception, not the rule.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

That I exist pops holes into your stuff.

If you outsource selling to your mules, you still do a lot of transactions on your main. You'd very quickly take note of who you could and could not buy from, and unless you're pants on head stupid or have a memory worse than mine you'd probably make notes somewhere of who to avoid on your mules to avoid the graceful bitchslap of the warning/ban hammer.

[Atelier Ari]

She's beauty, she's grace.

Leothalis the Sorcerer

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Leothalis the Sorcerer

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

There's a guild I came across called MM: Marketplace Manipulation
(I didn't think such a guild existed or could exist)
And at the end of their intro states - Artificial Inflation is not against Gaia's TOS and we have proof of this.
So I said okaaaaay but when #7 of the TOS mentioned at the end

7. Gold/Platinum, Virtual Currency. Throughout your Gaia Online experience, you may accumulate "Gold/Platinum", which constitutes a limited license right to use a feature of Gaia Online when, as, and if allowed by Gaia. Gold/Platinum is the fictional currency used in the world of Gaia Online and it may only be used to purchase virtual goods or virtual services which are stored in the Member's inventory and can be used to enhance the look of the Member's on-line persona or player, also known as an "Avatar", or other on-site features. Gaia may charge fees for the right to use Gold/Platinum, or may distribute Gold/Platinum without charge, in its sole discretion. Regardless of terminology used, Gold/Platinum represents a limited license right governed solely under these Terms, has no real value, and is not transferable or redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Gaia at any time. As a condition of using Gaia Online and accumulating Gold/Platinum, you agree that Gaia has the absolute right to reduce, manage, regulate, control, modify and/or eliminate Gold/Platinum, including the Gold/Platinum in your inventory, as it sees fit in its sole discretion, and that Gaia will have no liability to you based on its exercise of such rights. Upon your closing of your account or the termination of your account by Gaia as provided in these terms, you understand that your limited license to use Gold/Platinum will be terminated and that no sum shall be due and owing to you for the Gold/Platinum accumulated in your inventory or account. Notwithstanding any other language to the contrary, as used in these Terms and throughout Gaia Online in the context of Gold/Platinum transfers: (a) the term "sell" means "to transfer for consideration to another Member or Gaia the licensed right to use Gold/Platinum in accordance with these Terms" and (b) the term "buy" means "to receive for consideration from another Member or Gaia the licensed right to use Gold/Platinum in accordance with these Terms". Gaia may halt, suspend, discontinue, or reverse any Gold/Platinum transaction (whether proposed, pending or past) in cases of actual or suspected fraud, violations of these Terms or other laws or regulations, to conform with revisions to these Terms, or deliberate disruptions to or interference with Gaia Online, such as creating multiple secondary accounts strictly to accumulate Gold/Platinum by using site features and then funneling it to a singular account.

Sounds controversial but what am I supposed to think? ???___???

Then every single user is subject to being banned because we all use mules, because 50 slots isn't enough when you have thousands of items which takes a lot of pages. So let's ban every single person so that you and a few people are even on this site, so that way Gaia tanks.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

I don't use my mule to sell stuff. So I just kinda disproved your hyperbole, for whatever that's worth.

Leo I'm not even talking about you. You're the exception, not the rule.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

That I exist pops holes into your stuff.

If you outsource selling to your mules, you still do a lot of transactions on your main. You'd very quickly take note of who you could and could not buy from, and unless you're pants on head stupid or have a memory worse than mine you'd probably make notes somewhere of who to avoid on your mules to avoid the graceful bitchslap of the warning/ban hammer.

Leo I don't keep track of who has a mule or not. I'm lucky I keep track of my dogs, and lucky I remember what I did yesterday.

Has anyone ever been banned for selling things on multiple mules? I'll bet money that no one has been banned for that. And if someone were it would be for ban evasion more so not selling things on the mp.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

[Leothalis the Sorcerer]

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Leothalis the Sorcerer

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Leothalis the Sorcerer

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

There's a guild I came across called MM: Marketplace Manipulation
(I didn't think such a guild existed or could exist)
And at the end of their intro states - Artificial Inflation is not against Gaia's TOS and we have proof of this.
So I said okaaaaay but when #7 of the TOS mentioned at the end

7. Gold/Platinum, Virtual Currency. Throughout your Gaia Online experience, you may accumulate "Gold/Platinum", which constitutes a limited license right to use a feature of Gaia Online when, as, and if allowed by Gaia. Gold/Platinum is the fictional currency used in the world of Gaia Online and it may only be used to purchase virtual goods or virtual services which are stored in the Member's inventory and can be used to enhance the look of the Member's on-line persona or player, also known as an "Avatar", or other on-site features. Gaia may charge fees for the right to use Gold/Platinum, or may distribute Gold/Platinum without charge, in its sole discretion. Regardless of terminology used, Gold/Platinum represents a limited license right governed solely under these Terms, has no real value, and is not transferable or redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Gaia at any time. As a condition of using Gaia Online and accumulating Gold/Platinum, you agree that Gaia has the absolute right to reduce, manage, regulate, control, modify and/or eliminate Gold/Platinum, including the Gold/Platinum in your inventory, as it sees fit in its sole discretion, and that Gaia will have no liability to you based on its exercise of such rights. Upon your closing of your account or the termination of your account by Gaia as provided in these terms, you understand that your limited license to use Gold/Platinum will be terminated and that no sum shall be due and owing to you for the Gold/Platinum accumulated in your inventory or account. Notwithstanding any other language to the contrary, as used in these Terms and throughout Gaia Online in the context of Gold/Platinum transfers: (a) the term "sell" means "to transfer for consideration to another Member or Gaia the licensed right to use Gold/Platinum in accordance with these Terms" and (b) the term "buy" means "to receive for consideration from another Member or Gaia the licensed right to use Gold/Platinum in accordance with these Terms". Gaia may halt, suspend, discontinue, or reverse any Gold/Platinum transaction (whether proposed, pending or past) in cases of actual or suspected fraud, violations of these Terms or other laws or regulations, to conform with revisions to these Terms, or deliberate disruptions to or interference with Gaia Online, such as creating multiple secondary accounts strictly to accumulate Gold/Platinum by using site features and then funneling it to a singular account.

Sounds controversial but what am I supposed to think? ???___???

Then every single user is subject to being banned because we all use mules, because 50 slots isn't enough when you have thousands of items which takes a lot of pages. So let's ban every single person so that you and a few people are even on this site, so that way Gaia tanks.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

I don't use my mule to sell stuff. So I just kinda disproved your hyperbole, for whatever that's worth.

Leo I'm not even talking about you. You're the exception, not the rule.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

That I exist pops holes into your stuff.

If you outsource selling to your mules, you still do a lot of transactions on your main. You'd very quickly take note of who you could and could not buy from, and unless you're pants on head stupid or have a memory worse than mine you'd probably make notes somewhere of who to avoid on your mules to avoid the graceful bitchslap of the warning/ban hammer.

Leo I don't keep track of who has a mule or not. I'm lucky I keep track of my dogs, and lucky I remember what I did yesterday.

Has anyone ever been banned for selling things on multiple mules? I'll bet money that no one has been banned for that. And if someone were it would be for ban evasion more so not selling things on the mp.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

Off the top of my head no but you're also talking to senior 'my-memory-is-more-s**t-than-the-mp' here, I don't think you'd want to be procuring info off me so willynilly.

Thjere have been cases where users have been caught pingponging items between accounts on the mp to forcibly ******** with graphs/abp and justify AI, but I have no knowledge on if punishments were doled out.
I sure as ******** hope they were.

[Atelier Ari]

She's beauty, she's grace.

Leothalis the Sorcerer

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Leothalis the Sorcerer

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Leothalis the Sorcerer

I don't use my mule to sell stuff. So I just kinda disproved your hyperbole, for whatever that's worth.

Leo I'm not even talking about you. You're the exception, not the rule.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

That I exist pops holes into your stuff.

If you outsource selling to your mules, you still do a lot of transactions on your main. You'd very quickly take note of who you could and could not buy from, and unless you're pants on head stupid or have a memory worse than mine you'd probably make notes somewhere of who to avoid on your mules to avoid the graceful bitchslap of the warning/ban hammer.

Leo I don't keep track of who has a mule or not. I'm lucky I keep track of my dogs, and lucky I remember what I did yesterday.

Has anyone ever been banned for selling things on multiple mules? I'll bet money that no one has been banned for that. And if someone were it would be for ban evasion more so not selling things on the mp.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

Off the top of my head no but you're also talking to senior 'my-memory-is-more-s**t-than-the-mp' here, I don't think you'd want to be procuring info off me so willynilly.

Thjere have been cases where users have been caught pingponging items between accounts on the mp to forcibly ******** with graphs/abp and justify AI, but I have no knowledge on if punishments were doled out.
I sure as ******** hope they were.

Like I said, I sent out a pm earlier to ask for clarification on the TOS and what it means for sellers.
If and when they get back to me, I'll ask if there were any serious punishments.

The only severe punishments to my knowledge are roughly for a) scammers like the Kin Goddess and b) if you try to evade a ban.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

[happy suprize]

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Where in the TOS does it state that? I've looked and haven't seen a single thing on it. Can you provide that?

Because last I checked, the TOS does state that the items and account that you have aren't technically yours. You have no ownership of anything, all Gaia does is lease you out items. As long as you don't break the TOS that you signed when you created the account. If you do break the TOS, and get perma banned then everything you bought with real money becomes forfeit and you lose everything.

Part of me wants to say that saying something in the TOS, and filing a false report is going to land you in more hot water, than someone buying low and selling high.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

Even if I did, then what? It wouldn't stop users with mules inflating items in the marketplace would it? No it would not.
And certain users will act like it's okay because their greed is being fulfilled
(AS LONG as their greed is being fulfilled).

Again selling high does not mean inflating items.
Why do you guys find this so acceptable? I don't understand the sentiment.

Except that you can't prove that.

This is what I see happening more so, someone lists it at x price. It ends up getting unlisted because the x amount of days they selected ended up lapsing. They sell other things. That item probably went to their mule because they ran out of room, and because there hasn't been any listings, then the price is fixed at whatever that last price was.

And if someone uses Gaia Upgrade and undercuts it will either undercut from the lbp, the abp, both or somehow it will glitch and when you hit submit you'll get the finalized price that seems extremely high. That is more likely to be happening than what you have seen.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

Well, I posted the TOS in a previous post on the 6th page and you're welcome to see it or I can post it again if you want me to.
I'm not saying it's wrong to use mules. It's wrong to use them to inflate items to the point there is no listings, and then re-list them at inflated prices.
That's what I'm trying to say but you're making me look like the bad guy for speaking up on it.

I'm well aware of the second paragraph. Trust me I agree with that because I've used that feature on gaiaupgrade myself but ONLY because users inflating the prices in the mp is unjustified not just for greed (I get making a profit I'm not against that but not just inflating prices over and over again on mules just because I can and can get away with uhm no) but I stopped because I quit using Gaia on my laptop that I now use on my phone and unfortunately I can't use gaiaupgrade on my phone so I'm SOL there. And I accept that. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Again that's not what's going on and if you go back to my initial post, or even a few posts in a similiar thread in this subforum I explained the very simple math behind it.

For the abp to work you have to have more than one listing. If you don't have that then the system will default to what it was before until there are multiple listings. Math doesn't lie and is always consistent.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

I get what you're saying, but I'm not taking that as an excuse to inflate items with multiple accounts just because you can.
No. I'm not agree with that no matter how you try to justify it.

[Atelier Ari]

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Where in the TOS does it state that? I've looked and haven't seen a single thing on it. Can you provide that?

Because last I checked, the TOS does state that the items and account that you have aren't technically yours. You have no ownership of anything, all Gaia does is lease you out items. As long as you don't break the TOS that you signed when you created the account. If you do break the TOS, and get perma banned then everything you bought with real money becomes forfeit and you lose everything.

Part of me wants to say that saying something in the TOS, and filing a false report is going to land you in more hot water, than someone buying low and selling high.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

Even if I did, then what? It wouldn't stop users with mules inflating items in the marketplace would it? No it would not.
And certain users will act like it's okay because their greed is being fulfilled
(AS LONG as their greed is being fulfilled).

Again selling high does not mean inflating items.
Why do you guys find this so acceptable? I don't understand the sentiment.

Except that you can't prove that.

This is what I see happening more so, someone lists it at x price. It ends up getting unlisted because the x amount of days they selected ended up lapsing. They sell other things. That item probably went to their mule because they ran out of room, and because there hasn't been any listings, then the price is fixed at whatever that last price was.

And if someone uses Gaia Upgrade and undercuts it will either undercut from the lbp, the abp, both or somehow it will glitch and when you hit submit you'll get the finalized price that seems extremely high. That is more likely to be happening than what you have seen.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

Well, I posted the TOS in a previous post on the 6th page and you're welcome to see it or I can post it again if you want me to.
I'm not saying it's wrong to use mules. It's wrong to use them to inflate items to the point there is no listings, and then re-list them at inflated prices.
That's what I'm trying to say but you're making me look like the bad guy for speaking up on it.

I'm well aware of the second paragraph. Trust me I agree with that because I've used that feature on gaiaupgrade myself but ONLY because users inflating the prices in the mp is unjustified not just for greed (I get making a profit I'm not against that but not just inflating prices over and over again on mules just because I can and can get away with uhm no) but I stopped because I quit using Gaia on my laptop that I now use on my phone and unfortunately I can't use gaiaupgrade on my phone so I'm SOL there. And I accept that. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Again that's not what's going on and if you go back to my initial post, or even a few posts in a similiar thread in this subforum I explained the very simple math behind it.

For the abp to work you have to have more than one listing. If you don't have that then the system will default to what it was before until there are multiple listings. Math doesn't lie and is always consistent.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

I get what you're saying, but I'm not taking that as an excuse to inflate items with multiple accounts just because you can.
No. I'm not agree with that no matter how you try to justify it.

You're not reading what I'm typing. I'm not saying that I'm purposely inflating the market.

I'm purposely trying to undercut by 20%.

And I'm using math to prove that when there's one listing you can't use abp. You can copy and paste the lbp, because at that time that is the lowest buy price.

So stop accusing me of s**t that I didn't even say and stop putting words in my mouth.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

[happy suprize]

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Mizz Cherrie

Rhongomyniad

She's beauty, she's grace.

Except that you can't prove that.

This is what I see happening more so, someone lists it at x price. It ends up getting unlisted because the x amount of days they selected ended up lapsing. They sell other things. That item probably went to their mule because they ran out of room, and because there hasn't been any listings, then the price is fixed at whatever that last price was.

And if someone uses Gaia Upgrade and undercuts it will either undercut from the lbp, the abp, both or somehow it will glitch and when you hit submit you'll get the finalized price that seems extremely high. That is more likely to be happening than what you have seen.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

Well, I posted the TOS in a previous post on the 6th page and you're welcome to see it or I can post it again if you want me to.
I'm not saying it's wrong to use mules. It's wrong to use them to inflate items to the point there is no listings, and then re-list them at inflated prices.
That's what I'm trying to say but you're making me look like the bad guy for speaking up on it.

I'm well aware of the second paragraph. Trust me I agree with that because I've used that feature on gaiaupgrade myself but ONLY because users inflating the prices in the mp is unjustified not just for greed (I get making a profit I'm not against that but not just inflating prices over and over again on mules just because I can and can get away with uhm no) but I stopped because I quit using Gaia on my laptop that I now use on my phone and unfortunately I can't use gaiaupgrade on my phone so I'm SOL there. And I accept that. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Again that's not what's going on and if you go back to my initial post, or even a few posts in a similiar thread in this subforum I explained the very simple math behind it.

For the abp to work you have to have more than one listing. If you don't have that then the system will default to what it was before until there are multiple listings. Math doesn't lie and is always consistent.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

I get what you're saying, but I'm not taking that as an excuse to inflate items with multiple accounts just because you can.
No. I'm not agree with that no matter how you try to justify it.

You're not reading what I'm typing. I'm not saying that I'm purposely inflating the market.

I'm purposely trying to undercut by 20%.

And I'm using math to prove that when there's one listing you can't use abp. You can copy and paste the lbp, because at that time that is the lowest buy price.

So stop accusing me of s**t that I didn't even say and stop putting words in my mouth.

She'll RHONGOMYNIAD you in the face!

You may do that, and will continue to do so. I'm sure no one will accuse you of inflating items and neither have I as I have never accused you of such thing.
And you have no proof of such a thing
But my point still stands and regardless what you said. I'm not changing that..
So I think I'm done here with you on this argument. So you can continue to post or not. Your choice.

[clarion]

I think there are a few different scenarios being conflated and that's resulting in people arguing past each other.

Scenario 1:
An item has no listings and no graph data indicating none have sold in over a year. LBP/ABP may be low, they may be high because someone listed one and it didn't sell, whatever. A seller comes along with this item and lists it at some astronomical price because a) none are available so they get to take advantage of rarity and b) because they can [and possibly c) they're using a marketplace extension that automatically pulled the last price and the person listing before them was also listing at an astronomical price]. In this situation it's arguable that the ABP/LBP are out of date and inflation is to be expected, and while you can argue to intent on the part of the seller it doesn't really matter if there's just the one listing and they put it up and sell/let it expire naturally regardless of the price they chose. None of the above including listing at a big high price is against the TOS. It's totally valid to have the opinion that the seller as described is an a*****e but it's still the marketplace working as intended, more or less.

The problem here is more that item circulation has decreased to the point that it's really easy for this scenario to happen, and while some people exercise a little restraint with regard to pricing, not everyone does and all you can really do is not buy their s**t and sell more things to get more on the market. Re-releases also help with this, I've seen plenty of rare items tank in value after being released again because nobody actually liked the item that much it was just expensive because it was hard to get lol

Scenario 2:
A seller decides to corner the market on an item and buys up all the ones available. Then they decide to inflate the price artificially by listing the item on a mule account and purchasing it via another mule account and do this repeatedly to influence the ABP and market graphs. This is the thing that is (or should be if it's not) against the TOS. Listing one item at a really high price is not doing this. This is intentional market manipulation and what Leo was talking about re: people being caught doing it but not knowing if there was any punishment.

Hopefully folks can see the difference between those things and stop conflating the two. I think it should be pretty acceptable that Scenario 2 is beyond the pale and is not using the marketplace as intended. There's plenty to debate regarding how to impact the escalating price of items, how to deal w/item rarity, whether or not a seller listing something for 100T gold is a giant a*****e, etc. but it may help to be clear on what we're all actually talking about and not get mad about one thing when someone is actually talking about something else. 3nodding

[happy suprize]

clarion

I think there are a few different scenarios being conflated and that's resulting in people arguing past each other.

Scenario 1:
An item has no listings and no graph data indicating none have sold in over a year. LBP/ABP may be low, they may be high because someone listed one and it didn't sell, whatever. A seller comes along with this item and lists it at some astronomical price because a) none are available so they get to take advantage of rarity and b) because they can [and possibly c) they're using a marketplace extension that automatically pulled the last price and the person listing before them was also listing at an astronomical price]. In this situation it's arguable that the ABP/LBP are out of date and inflation is to be expected, and while you can argue to intent on the part of the seller it doesn't really matter if there's just the one listing and they put it up and sell/let it expire naturally regardless of the price they chose. None of the above including listing at a big high price is against the TOS. It's totally valid to have the opinion that the seller as described is an a*****e but it's still the marketplace working as intended, more or less.

The problem here is more that item circulation has decreased to the point that it's really easy for this scenario to happen, and while some people exercise a little restraint with regard to pricing, not everyone does and all you can really do is not buy their s**t and sell more things to get more on the market. Re-releases also help with this, I've seen plenty of rare items tank in value after being released again because nobody actually liked the item that much it was just expensive because it was hard to get lol

Scenario 2:
A seller decides to corner the market on an item and buys up all the ones available. Then they decide to inflate the price artificially by listing the item on a mule account and purchasing it via another mule account and do this repeatedly to influence the ABP and market graphs. This is the thing that is (or should be if it's not) against the TOS. Listing one item at a really high price is not doing this. This is intentional market manipulation and what Leo was talking about re: people being caught doing it but not knowing if there was any punishment.

Hopefully folks can see the difference between those things and stop conflating the two. I think it should be pretty acceptable that Scenario 2 is beyond the pale and is not using the marketplace as intended. There's plenty to debate regarding how to impact the escalating price of items, how to deal w/item rarity, whether or not a seller listing something for 100T gold is a giant a*****e, etc. but it may help to be clear on what we're all actually talking about and not get mad about one thing when someone is actually talking about something else. 3nodding

The second scenario was what I was trying to explain. Never did I mean to merge it into the first one. Nor was I intentional on it.
But I'm glad you could explain this better. Thank you.

[eyeguro]

predatory pricing really is an issue, and i do my best to avoid it as both a seller and a buyer. i've also found that patience really is a virtue when it comes to buying items, especially newer/more coveted items. i've regularly waited months to buy items that were worth trillions so i can watch them get rereleased and fall to 200b.
about artificial inflation, things like that are actually illegal in real life too. i forget what it's called atm but it's been used in an unregulated cryptocurrency market to honestly disturbing effects. here's a very informative john oliver bit if you'd like to learn more about how that works.

i'm surprised that that one user has survived this long with how he behaves tbh. it's about time.

[His sweet prey]

I do not kill with my gun...

Kind of glad this popped up on the front page again because OH BOY.

So, I have on my wishlist. It's been sitting there for years with no listings, and lo, suddenly one is listed!

... for almost 40x the ABP (if my math is correct).

I'll admit, I've been on the fence about it. I can afford it, certainly, and it doesn't get listed very often, so I am very very tempted. However, as much as I want it, I really cannot feel justified in helping to inflate the price of what has always been a relatively common item to that degree, simply because it happened to pop up on the MP finally. I've gone this long without it, I can wait it out.

... I kill with my heart.