The Abortion Debate

[Nethilia]

terraforcer

Nethilia

You can see it how you want, that doesn't make it true.

The problem with the mentality of waiting until things are at grave/serious danger is that once the body approaches that kind of danger, it can leave lasting effects. Using that logic, you shouldn't go to the doctor about a infected cut until gangrene has set in, because that's when your life is in danger. I would rather not be at death's door before I seek to save my life. Ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure and all that.

I think what she is trying to say is that a child is not like an injury. An injury is a situation in which you are physically hurt, and it is important to take care of yourself by seing the doctor to make sure that the injury will be fixed or taken care of so that it will cause you no further harm. But a child is not like an injury, to go to the doctor because you want to make sure a cut isn't infected is different then going to a doctor because you are pregnent and want to get rid of the child.

There are no children in abortion, and they are not being removed from the uterus. Fetuses and embryos are. Anyone pregnant with a child is SEVERELY overdue and should be a medical miracle.

[terraforcer]

KraZGurl

1. Abortion isn't about willingly killing the fetus, it is about removing it from the womb.

2. No children in abortion: Zygotes, Fetii, or Embryos.

Why is it that the mother suddenly becomes unimportant, and that she should not have an abortion to sustain her own life?

What if someone kills a murderer and is trying to sustain their own life? Should they not kill in self defense and act in action two because the action directly opposes action one?

If keeping my body as healthy as possible, even if that means ending a pregnancey early and killing a fetus, so be it. It is my physical being, and I am going to sustain my life, even if it kills another.

Ok I am going to clear up what I was trying to say. I did not mean that a person shouldn't defend themselves. When a person defends themselves in a life or death situation against a threat to ones personal self, #1 does not apply because killer does not have the idea in their mind to create life by their actions and thus you are not denying any "Life giving" action by defending and possibly killing that person who threatens your life.

As for abortion, when a woman gets pregnent are they themselves in any physical danger by carrying the child. If not then then there is no reason to try and sustain one's own life, because it is not in any physical danger. You seem to be saying that, because it may not be convienient to you that it is a physical danger to you and you feel your life to be in danger.

Also as for the idea of not killing the fetus but removing it, it is still directly killing it, because you are removing it from the surroundings that it needs in order to survive.

And as an add on I would also just like to disagree with your belief that a Zygotes, Fetii, or Embryo, are not children. thats all.

[Delphii]

Murder is defined as " illegal taking of a human's life with malicious intent" as the author of this thread stated. Aborting a fetus is not malicious in any way. It is selfish but as KraZGurl said, that is how our species has survived.

The easiest way I found to explain my opinions as to why abortion is right goes as following: The fetus is taking residance in the womb. The woman is the landlord and maintains the right to kick it out as she so wishes.

I hope that made sense sweatdrop .

[North Star]

You're right, all you pro-choice people.

Let's just have chicks out there with they're legs wide open and decide they don't want the baby, (seeing as they're irresponsible, immature and 'emo'), go to a local family doctor or Satanist and abort life.

THAT... my dear friends, is smart.

Where is the rationalism?
Where is the brains?
Where is the care?

Abortion should be given to girls under extreme circumstances;

- Rape.

If you don't want a baby, don't be out there with unprotected sex and with your legs wide-open. talk2hand

[Katsuya Ishtar]

terraforcer

Nethilia

You can see it how you want, that doesn't make it true.

The problem with the mentality of waiting until things are at grave/serious danger is that once the body approaches that kind of danger, it can leave lasting effects. Using that logic, you shouldn't go to the doctor about a infected cut until gangrene has set in, because that's when your life is in danger. I would rather not be at death's door before I seek to save my life. Ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure and all that.

I think what she is trying to say is that a child is not like an injury. An injury is a situation in which you are physically hurt, and it is important to take care of yourself by seing the doctor to make sure that the injury will be fixed or taken care of so that it will cause you no further harm. But a child is not like an injury, to go to the doctor because you want to make sure a cut isn't infected is different then going to a doctor because you are pregnent and want to get rid of the child.

You missed the point...

What is being explained is that if you have a medical condition that getting pregnant can make worse and do get pregnant, but don't want your condition getting worse (nor want the fetus), you would abort to prevent your condition from getting worse, much like how you would do what you can if you get an infected cut from getting worse and turning into gangrene.

Let me make it simple, and I do hope I get this part correct:

Cut=medical condition
Gangrene=worsened medical condition
Infection=fetus (analogy coming from the road of getting gangrene/medical conditon worsening)

[opiumeyedlove]

That is one of the most comphrehensive things i have ever seen on abortion. Bravo!

[Emiri Insane]

North Star

You're right, all you pro-choice people.

Let's just have chicks out there with they're legs wide open and decide they don't want the baby, (seeing as they're irresponsible, immature and 'emo'), go to a local family doctor or Satanist and abort life.

THAT... my dear friends, is smart.

Where is the rationalism?
Where is the brains?
Where is the care?

Abortion should be given to girls under extreme circumstances;

- Rape.

If you don't want a baby, don't be out there with unprotected sex and with your legs wide-open. talk2hand

Interestingly enough, the majority of abortions are performed on married women who already have children. If you are so irresponsible, immature, and "emo" then you shouldn't be having children anyway.

[terraforcer]

Treacherous Desire

There are some conditions in which childbirth would almost certainly mean the death of the patient.

Can you imagine a person who is lacking the clotting agent in their blood giving BIRTH? Hemoraging?

Pregnancy can be far more serious than an injury.

In todays society, due to our medical advances there are very few situations in which a person who becomes pregnent can say at that moment will be in a life threatening situation.

Also as for a person who's a hemopiliac, and their clotting agents do not work properly, they shouldn't be getting pregnent as is, because as soon as they have sex for the first time, their hymen would break and they would bleed to death before they had the chance to become pregnent.

[KraZGurl]

terraforcer

.

As for abortion, when a woman gets pregnent are they themselves in any physical danger by carrying the child. If not then then there is no reason to try and sustain one's own life, because it is not in any physical danger. You seem to be saying that, because it may not be convienient to you that it is a physical danger to you and you feel your life to be in danger.

But why should the woman be in only physical danger? Aren't mental health and finatial important, too? Do you realize that if a women is forced to go through a pregnancey she does not want, it could cause her to go mental, and she may hurt herself? And what if the woman can't support a pregnancey and she ends up on the streets? The mother may very well die from the harsh elements of homelessness.

Quote:

Also as for the idea of not killing the fetus but removing it, it is still directly killing it, because you are removing it from the surroundings that it needs in order to survive.

No, it is indirectly killing it. The removal killed it. Directly killing it would be killing it, then removing it, but that is not the case in (Most) abortions (IE, Elective)

Quote:

And as an add on I would also just like to disagree with your belief that a Zygotes, Fetii, or Embryo, are not children. thats all.

Not a belief. It's a fact:

Child: Medical term meaning a human from the age of two to the age of twelve.

[North Star]

Emiri Insane

North Star

You're right, all you pro-choice people.

Let's just have chicks out there with they're legs wide open and decide they don't want the baby, (seeing as they're irresponsible, immature and 'emo'), go to a local family doctor or Satanist and abort life.

THAT... my dear friends, is smart.

Where is the rationalism?
Where is the brains?
Where is the care?

Abortion should be given to girls under extreme circumstances;

- Rape.

If you don't want a baby, don't be out there with unprotected sex and with your legs wide-open. talk2hand

Interestingly enough, the majority of abortions are performed on married women who already have children. If you are so irresponsible, immature, and "emo" then you shouldn't be having children anyway.

First, I'd like to know your source.

Second, how old are these 'married' women? 17-married-too-early-too-first-guy-that-spoke-sweet-to-her? Or a 40 year old soccor mom?

Irresponsible.

Immature.

'Emo'.

[Katsuya Ishtar]

terraforcer

KraZGurl

1. Abortion isn't about willingly killing the fetus, it is about removing it from the womb.

2. No children in abortion: Zygotes, Fetii, or Embryos.

Why is it that the mother suddenly becomes unimportant, and that she should not have an abortion to sustain her own life?

What if someone kills a murderer and is trying to sustain their own life? Should they not kill in self defense and act in action two because the action directly opposes action one?

If keeping my body as healthy as possible, even if that means ending a pregnancey early and killing a fetus, so be it. It is my physical being, and I am going to sustain my life, even if it kills another.

Ok I am going to clear up what I was trying to say. I did not mean that a person shouldn't defend themselves. When a person defends themselves in a life or death situation against a threat to ones personal self, #1 does not apply because killer does not have the idea in their mind to create life by their actions and thus you are not denying any "Life giving" action by defending and possibly killing that person who threatens your life.

As for abortion, when a woman gets pregnent are they themselves in any physical danger by carrying the child. If not then then there is no reason to try and sustain one's own life, because it is not in any physical danger. You seem to be saying that, because it may not be convienient to you that it is a physical danger to you and you feel your life to be in danger.

Also as for the idea of not killing the fetus but removing it, it is still directly killing it, because you are removing it from the surroundings that it needs in order to survive.

And as an add on I would also just like to disagree with your belief that a Zygotes, Fetii, or Embryo, are not children. thats all.

So by your logic, the ruling of McFall v. Shimp is utter bullshit. If someone is going to die and something that I have can save them, I must give it to them to sustain their life, even if it is against my will... That's just ******** up.

Her "belief" as you call it, is, in fact, goes by MEDICAL DEFINITIONS. Go look in a medical dictionary and look up the terms zygote, embryo, fetus, and child. I think the definitions are given on the first page of this thread for you convenience.

You cannot be pregnant with child because medically speaking, it is a human between the ages of 2 and 12, if you are pregnant with child, you should get that checked out, as Neth says.

[Nethilia]

North Star

You're right, all you pro-choice people.

Let's just have chicks out there with they're legs wide open and decide they don't want the baby, (seeing as they're irresponsible, immature and 'emo'), go to a local family doctor or Satanist and abort life.

THAT... my dear friends, is smart.

What's wrong with all this?

--Local family doctors don't perform abortions, thanks to the stigma and lack of training.
--Women who want abortions aren't "irresponsible, immature, and "emo."; those are emotionally charged and judgemental words.
--Baby is not a medical term.
--The idea of punishing people because "they opened their legs" with pregnancy and childbirth is abhorrent.

Quote:

Where is the rationalism?
Where is the brains?
Where is the care?

I could say the same about a side that assumes any woman who would seek abortion to be a loose, immature slut.

Quote:

Abortion should be given to girls under extreme circumstances;

- Rape.

Ther's no biological difference between a rape-concieved fetus and consentual sex-concieved one. Allowing for rape but not for anything else shows that you wish to punish women for having sex you don't like by making them stay pregnant. What a horrible reason for a person to be born.

Quote:

If you don't want a baby, don't be out there with unprotected sex and with your legs wide-open. talk2hand

Because these women climbed on top of themselves, shot off a load, and got pregnant. I didn't know femsem worked outside of bad fanfiction.

[KraZGurl]

North Star

You're right, all you pro-choice people.

Let's just have chicks out there with they're legs wide open and decide they don't want the baby, (seeing as they're irresponsible, immature and 'emo'), go to a local family doctor or Satanist and abort life.

THAT... my dear friends, is smart.

Where is the rationalism?
Where is the brains?
Where is the care?

Abortion should be given to girls under extreme circumstances;

- Rape.

If you don't want a baby, don't be out there with unprotected sex and with your legs wide-open. talk2hand

LE GASP! You know what? The majority out there who have abortions are those that have protected sex between the ages of 20-55 and are married!

And anyone irresponsible enought to get 500$ abortions over a five dollar box of condoms should not have children.

[North Star]

Nethilia

North Star

You're right, all you pro-choice people.

Let's just have chicks out there with they're legs wide open and decide they don't want the baby, (seeing as they're irresponsible, immature and 'emo'), go to a local family doctor or Satanist and abort life.

THAT... my dear friends, is smart.

What's wrong with all this?

--Local family doctors don't perform abortions, thanks to the stigma and lack of training.
--Women who want abortions aren't "irresponsible, immature, and "emo."; those are emotionally charged and judgemental words.
--Baby is not a medical term.
--The idea of punishing people because "they opened their legs" with pregnancy and childbirth is abhorrent.

Quote:

Where is the rationalism?
Where is the brains?
Where is the care?

I could say the same about a side that assumes any woman who would seek abortion to be a loose, immature slut.

Quote:

Abortion should be given to girls under extreme circumstances;

- Rape.

Ther's no biological difference between a rape-concieved fetus and consentual sex-concieved one. Allowing for rape but not for anything else shows that you wish to punish women for having sex you don't like by making them stay pregnant. What a horrible reason for a person to be born.

Quote:

If you don't want a baby, don't be out there with unprotected sex and with your legs wide-open. talk2hand

Because these women climbed on top of themselves, shot off a load, and got pregnant. I didn't know femsem worked outside of bad fanfiction.

Coming from someone who fires right back, I don't expect comprehension. heart

[Emiri Insane]

North Star

Emiri Insane

North Star

You're right, all you pro-choice people.

Let's just have chicks out there with they're legs wide open and decide they don't want the baby, (seeing as they're irresponsible, immature and 'emo'), go to a local family doctor or Satanist and abort life.

THAT... my dear friends, is smart.

Where is the rationalism?
Where is the brains?
Where is the care?

Abortion should be given to girls under extreme circumstances;

- Rape.

If you don't want a baby, don't be out there with unprotected sex and with your legs wide-open. talk2hand

Interestingly enough, the majority of abortions are performed on married women who already have children. If you are so irresponsible, immature, and "emo" then you shouldn't be having children anyway.

First, I'd like to know your source.

Second, how old are these 'married' women? 17-married-too-early-too-first-guy-that-spoke-sweet-to-her? Or a 40 year old soccor mom?

Irresponsible.

Immature.

'Emo'.

2/3 of women who have abortions are married.
80% of women having abortions are over 18.

Once again, why would an immature person have a child?