The Abortion Debate

[Vincent Xain]

Saigio

Vincent Xain

To the horrible human being who is condoning rape, who gives a man the right to forcibly violate the body of a woman? Say God and there'll be problems. WOMEN ARE HUMANS TOO YOU FREAK!!! WITHOUT WOMEN, YOU'RE PITIFUL EXISTENCE WOULDN'T PLAGUE US! Be grateful for the fact that your mother carried your horrible fetus to term.

RAPE IS NOT GOOD. IT IS NOT RIGHT!!!

Any human who forcibly violates the body of another deserves to have the same done to him.



To the original topic, I happen to be pro-life in all cases except rape. A teenager who goes out and gets pregnant because she doesn't like condoms is deserving of having to raise the child. A woman who is raped should be able to do all that she can to erase the mental trauma which comes with it.

However, second exception comes when the fetus threatens the woman's life terminally. In such case, a woman should be able to secure her own well being if such can be done.

The very thing that garuntees a woman the right to defend herself against rape (bodily domain) applies to abortion. The fetus is using her body without her permission, why should she be forced to allow it to continue to do so?

Um.....no....you had consensual intercourse... You knew of the possible ramifications of said act, including the possibility of pregnancy. This thusly grants said fetus the right to use the body. It's how the circle of life works.

[Spiral Out]

Xain, why does a fetus get rights that no born person gets?

Also, while pregnancy is a possible outcome of sex, we all know that not all pregnancies end in birth. Why does the consent to the possibility of pregnancy equal consent to the pregnancy itself?

[Dhyana]

Vincent Xain

Saigio

Vincent Xain

To the horrible human being who is condoning rape, who gives a man the right to forcibly violate the body of a woman? Say God and there'll be problems. WOMEN ARE HUMANS TOO YOU FREAK!!! WITHOUT WOMEN, YOU'RE PITIFUL EXISTENCE WOULDN'T PLAGUE US! Be grateful for the fact that your mother carried your horrible fetus to term.

RAPE IS NOT GOOD. IT IS NOT RIGHT!!!

Any human who forcibly violates the body of another deserves to have the same done to him.



To the original topic, I happen to be pro-life in all cases except rape. A teenager who goes out and gets pregnant because she doesn't like condoms is deserving of having to raise the child. A woman who is raped should be able to do all that she can to erase the mental trauma which comes with it.

However, second exception comes when the fetus threatens the woman's life terminally. In such case, a woman should be able to secure her own well being if such can be done.

The very thing that garuntees a woman the right to defend herself against rape (bodily domain) applies to abortion. The fetus is using her body without her permission, why should she be forced to allow it to continue to do so?

Um.....no....you had consensual intercourse... You knew of the possible ramifications of said act, including the possibility of pregnancy. This thusly grants said fetus the right to use the body. It's how the circle of life works.

So, under this guise, a woman who dresses to prevocatively, who incites a mans lust becuase she choose to dress a certain way (therefore consenting to be ogled becuase she desires to be attractive to men) deserves to be raped?

[YuriNoHikari]

Vincent Xain

Saigio

Vincent Xain

To the horrible human being who is condoning rape, who gives a man the right to forcibly violate the body of a woman? Say God and there'll be problems. WOMEN ARE HUMANS TOO YOU FREAK!!! WITHOUT WOMEN, YOU'RE PITIFUL EXISTENCE WOULDN'T PLAGUE US! Be grateful for the fact that your mother carried your horrible fetus to term.

RAPE IS NOT GOOD. IT IS NOT RIGHT!!!

Any human who forcibly violates the body of another deserves to have the same done to him.



To the original topic, I happen to be pro-life in all cases except rape. A teenager who goes out and gets pregnant because she doesn't like condoms is deserving of having to raise the child. A woman who is raped should be able to do all that she can to erase the mental trauma which comes with it.

However, second exception comes when the fetus threatens the woman's life terminally. In such case, a woman should be able to secure her own well being if such can be done.

The very thing that garuntees a woman the right to defend herself against rape (bodily domain) applies to abortion. The fetus is using her body without her permission, why should she be forced to allow it to continue to do so?

Um.....no....you had consensual intercourse... You knew of the possible ramifications of said act, including the possibility of pregnancy. This thusly grants said fetus the right to use the body. It's how the circle of life works.

Yes, I knew there was a possibility. And most women plan against said possibility. However, condoms, IUDs, contraceptives, they all fail sometimes. Then there comes the unfortunate circumstance of when a woman becomes inable to care for a child, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally.

Unfortunately, sometimes the circle of life doesn't need to start.

[Sugarrocks]

Lord Setar

Sugarrocks

Lord Setar

Sugarrocks

When defending yourself you are allowed to use whatever force necessary to defend your own body, your family, and your property this counts for rape.

Thank you for defeating yourself. The fetus, by residing in the woman's body without her consent, is violating the woman's right to security of the person, granted under Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The lone precedent on this right in the case of abortion, R. v. Morgentaler, determined that the fetus' right to life, if any, does not override the woman's right to security of the person. Abortion is thus the woman defending her body and rights by removing the offender. To force the woman to carry to term and give birth against her will would be a violation of these rights, and in effect violating the woman's rights by proxy.

I didn't defeat myself, I'm pro life but have respect for the woman's choice and would never take it away. I myself had an abortion which was the result of rape. I have a son now but was told by countless doctors to have an abortion because there was a bunch of problems and I nearly died... a few times. I could have chosen to have an abortion but I love my child's father and I wanted my child desperetly, I was willing to die if that was necessary. But I respect that not all people are willing to go through that.

Then...you're pro-choice. You've just already made your choice. Not wanting to force others to abort or not abort (forced abortion is also anti-choice) is the essence of pro-choice, however, your identifying as pro-life irks me a little in that it seems that you wish to place yourself on a pedestal or separate yourself somehow from everyone else who is pro-choice.

It also irks me that you would try to convince other women to not abort, however, that would be alleviated if you're not going to go to the lengths most protestors do to convince women to not abort.

Actually it's called Pro life personal, pro choice political. It means I think abortion is wrong but respect the rights of women being able to choose and wouldn't take it away.

As for how I'd convince a woman... I would tell her as much of the truth as I could from all the different angles and aspects. I'd tell her the horrible and good parts of both sides. And possibly some of my own personal experience. Your being irked is of no consequence to me, I care on a general sense but your one opinion of what I believe in dosn't matter to me.

I see no pedestal, I believe in truth and facts. I've seen too many people back up their arguments with biblical reference. I think of myself no higher then other people who are pro life, I only respcet the ones who know what they're talking about more then the others.

I'd also like to point out another problem with the whole rights of the mother to abort a fetus because they're violating the woman's rights to her body. Technically a woman's child whether a fetus or an infant until they're old enough to make life decisions which in Canada is 14 I don't know about everywhere else, that child is the parent/ mother's responsibility in all ways an aspects so technically the mother or parent is responsible for everything their... I'm going to use the word baby, does. So technically the mother is violating her own rights through the responsibility she has over her child's actions in her womb.

Whoo that's a mouthful.
go ahead poke some holes in that,.

[Lord Setar]

Vincent Xain

Saigio

Vincent Xain

To the horrible human being who is condoning rape, who gives a man the right to forcibly violate the body of a woman? Say God and there'll be problems. WOMEN ARE HUMANS TOO YOU FREAK!!! WITHOUT WOMEN, YOU'RE PITIFUL EXISTENCE WOULDN'T PLAGUE US! Be grateful for the fact that your mother carried your horrible fetus to term.

RAPE IS NOT GOOD. IT IS NOT RIGHT!!!

Any human who forcibly violates the body of another deserves to have the same done to him.



To the original topic, I happen to be pro-life in all cases except rape. A teenager who goes out and gets pregnant because she doesn't like condoms is deserving of having to raise the child. A woman who is raped should be able to do all that she can to erase the mental trauma which comes with it.

However, second exception comes when the fetus threatens the woman's life terminally. In such case, a woman should be able to secure her own well being if such can be done.

The very thing that garuntees a woman the right to defend herself against rape (bodily domain) applies to abortion. The fetus is using her body without her permission, why should she be forced to allow it to continue to do so?

Um.....no....you had consensual intercourse... You knew of the possible ramifications of said act, including the possibility of pregnancy. This thusly grants said fetus the right to use the body. It's how the circle of life works.

How is consent to sex, and as established consent to the risk of pregnancy, irrevocable consent to carry any resulting pregnancy to term?

[Lord Setar]

Sugarrocks

Lord Setar

Sugarrocks

Lord Setar

Sugarrocks

When defending yourself you are allowed to use whatever force necessary to defend your own body, your family, and your property this counts for rape.

Thank you for defeating yourself. The fetus, by residing in the woman's body without her consent, is violating the woman's right to security of the person, granted under Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The lone precedent on this right in the case of abortion, R. v. Morgentaler, determined that the fetus' right to life, if any, does not override the woman's right to security of the person. Abortion is thus the woman defending her body and rights by removing the offender. To force the woman to carry to term and give birth against her will would be a violation of these rights, and in effect violating the woman's rights by proxy.

I didn't defeat myself, I'm pro life but have respect for the woman's choice and would never take it away. I myself had an abortion which was the result of rape. I have a son now but was told by countless doctors to have an abortion because there was a bunch of problems and I nearly died... a few times. I could have chosen to have an abortion but I love my child's father and I wanted my child desperetly, I was willing to die if that was necessary. But I respect that not all people are willing to go through that.

Then...you're pro-choice. You've just already made your choice. Not wanting to force others to abort or not abort (forced abortion is also anti-choice) is the essence of pro-choice, however, your identifying as pro-life irks me a little in that it seems that you wish to place yourself on a pedestal or separate yourself somehow from everyone else who is pro-choice.

It also irks me that you would try to convince other women to not abort, however, that would be alleviated if you're not going to go to the lengths most protestors do to convince women to not abort.

Actually it's called Pro life personal, pro choice political. It means I think abortion is wrong but respect the rights of women being able to choose and wouldn't take it away.

As for how I'd convince a woman... I would tell her as much of the truth as I could from all the different angles and aspects. I'd tell her the horrible and good parts of both sides. And possibly some of my own personal experience. Your being irked is of no consequence to me, I care on a general sense but your one opinion of what I believe in dosn't matter to me.

I see no pedestal, I believe in truth and facts. I've seen too many people back up their arguments with biblical reference. I think of myself no higher then other people who are pro life, I only respcet the ones who know what they're talking about more then the others.

I'd also like to point out another problem with the whole rights of the mother to abort a fetus because they're violating the woman's rights to her body. Technically a woman's child whether a fetus or an infant until they're old enough to make life decisions which in Canada is 14 I don't know about everywhere else, that child is the parent/ mother's responsibility in all ways an aspects so technically the mother or parent is responsible for everything their... I'm going to use the word baby, does. So technically the mother is violating her own rights through the responsibility she has over her child's actions in her womb.

Whoo that's a mouthful.
go ahead poke some holes in that,.

Um, the so-called responsibility does not mean that the fetus is a mere extension of the woman. Furthermore, you can't violate your own rights, as that is an oxymoron. The fetus, on its own, is violating the woman's rights. The woman's responsibility has no bearing on this and does not cause (except through faulty logic) the woman to be somehow violating her own rights.

Besides, if she were violating her own rights, that is once again solved through abortion as she removes the violator and ends the violation.

[GoatShow]

Lord Setar

Furthermore, you can't violate your own rights, as that is an oxymoron.

Suicide.

[DCVI]

Quote:

How is consent to sex, and as established consent to the risk of pregnancy, irrevocable consent to carry any resulting pregnancy to term?

How are (uncontracted) "agreements" even relevant to this debate?

Social responsibility is not viewed as obligatory terms which must be carried out, like two business partners. It's erroneous to think so.

Moreover, I could even take your argument and say that while I may consent to reside in this country, I have not (and perhaps, will not) ever once consent to each and every law the U.S. has established.

Technically, no born citizen of their birth nation has ever agreed to anything legally residing in their document of law. Ever.

[Elf Lord Chiewn]

GoatShow

Lord Setar

Furthermore, you can't violate your own rights, as that is an oxymoron.

Suicide.

Except that you've just given yourself consent.
Fail? Y/Y

[Lord Setar]

GoatShow

Lord Setar

Furthermore, you can't violate your own rights, as that is an oxymoron.

Suicide.

Consenting to die is not a violation of your right to life, you know? A violation means there is no consent. If you are committing suicide, you have quite obviously consented to die.

[alliop]

I don't want all abortion to be banned just partial birth abortions to be banned.

[GoatShow]

Elf Lord Chiewn

GoatShow

Lord Setar

Furthermore, you can't violate your own rights, as that is an oxymoron.

Suicide.

Except that you've just given yourself consent.
Fail? Y/Y

Some sort of multiple-personality suicide.

[Lord Setar]

kp is dcvi

Quote:

How is consent to sex, and as established consent to the risk of pregnancy, irrevocable consent to carry any resulting pregnancy to term?

How are (uncontracted) "agreements" even relevant to this debate?

Social responsibility is not viewed as obligatory terms which must be carried out, like two business partners. It's erroneous to think so.

Moreover, I could even take your argument and say that while I may consent to reside in this country, I have not (and perhaps, will not) ever once consent to each and every law the U.S. has established.

Technically, no born citizen of their birth nation has ever agreed to anything legally residing in their document of law. Ever.

That doesn't make the question as any less valid. The question is to attempt to establish if consent to the risk is irrevocable consent to the action, in question to statements that "the woman made her choice when she consented to sex!" It is very relevant and pertinent, especially when statements or implications such as that come into play.

[Spiral Out]

GoatShow

Some sort of multiple-personality suicide.

lol.

Grasping at straws, are we?