The Abortion Debate

[20 Shades of Crazy]

alex2087

This is what I believe about abortion and women's rights. I am a Christian and do believe that women have inherent rights as well, but I believe that abortion is murder anyway you slice it. There is no way that you can possibly make it right. If a woman is raped, it is the fault of the rapist and not of the child. It is not a fetus, a zigoat, and their heads are not "number 1". Whatever is inside of the woman is a baby! A woman should have the right to take a morning after pill or birth control but not get an abortion.

You only have babies inside of you if you are a cannibal of infants.
A woman can have a fetus inside of her, though.

[ottery]

Barely_evil

WitheringRoseOfDecay

Barely_evil

WitheringRoseOfDecay

Barely_evil

life begins at conception. why then will you not protect the fetus when it cannot tell you if it's in pain? how can you know that being aborted is painless??

because, it's been proven that the fetus doesn't feel pain until the cerebral cortex and the thalamus are both formed, and when the receptors that generate the sensation of pain connect these two parts of the brain. without these key parts of the brain, the nerves do not function, therefore there is no pain. here's a few websites that prove it.
link 1
link 2
link 3

also, life may begin at conception, but sentience and personhood do not.

personhood? day 22nd of a fetus' development, the heat is beating with it's own blood, not that of the mother's. Yes there have been studies done on whether or not a fetus can feel pain, but there is no proof as we cannot measure a fetus' pain threshold or anyone's for that matter.

um, yes there is proof. neorologists know what parts of the brain do what, and when they develop. and having a heartbeat proves what?

so someone told you that your fetus inside you, that could one day become your pride and joy, cannot feel pain. so you take their word on the issue and have your fetus destroyed because you think they can't feel it>? Have you had an abortion? I'm assuming you have, seeing how you can justify it this way.

I don't think she has, but I have. You may ask me any question you choose. Also, I would rather trust people who study the brain than pro-life sites.

[20 Shades of Crazy]

Barely_evil

Veolin

Barely_evil

Veolin

You said that it would be reasonable to believe that I would have no more compassion for a living baby then I would a fetus.

that's not what I said. I was talking to witheringrose of decay thank you. I would reccomend reading my posts before you redpond.

Then I guess I must have just imagined it when you posted "It's reasonable to believe that you would have no more compassion on a living born baby than you have on living preborn babies"

when I said you I meant her. I was not directly talking to you and actually I had quoted her so I was responding to her. sorry I had to spoonfeed you

When you make an umbrella statement like that, we assume that you mean all pro-choice people. "You" can be a universal word because English is weird like that.

[WitheringRoseOfDecay]

alex2087

This is what I believe about abortion and women's rights. I am a Christian and do believe that women have inherent rights as well, but I believe that abortion is murder anyway you slice it. There is no way that you can possibly make it right. If a woman is raped, it is the fault of the rapist and not of the child. It is not a fetus, a zigoat, and their heads are not "number 1". Whatever is inside of the woman is a baby! A woman should have the right to take a morning after pill or birth control but not get an abortion.

sorry, but abortion is not murder by definition nor legality. a fetus is not yet a baby, as a baby is a sentient and BORN being. a fetus is neither. why does the fetus get more recognition than the woman? why do you want to punish women?

[Raina Luxe]

Veolin

Barely_evil

WitheringRoseOfDecay

Barely_evil

Z3Ncat

Barely_evil

freedom to choose? ha! freedom to kill their children. It's reasonable to believe that you would have no more compassion on a living born baby than you have on living preborn babies

Freedom to remove a non-sentient, non-feeling fetus which was violating their bodily domain - unfortunately, the removal of the fetus automatically ensures its death. Nowhere in the US, at any point in time, has the right of a woman to kill her born child been constitutionally protected. That is why women who carry to term, birth in secret, and then kill/throw away the baby are prosecuted.

Long live Roe vs. Wade.

what about inuced miscarriages? late term abortions using the MOLD method. MOLD is an abbreviation of the components used in the abortion: Misoprostol, Oxytocin, Laminaria, and Digoxin. Claimed to be a "normal, safe, natural miscarriage".

On the first day of the process, the baby is killed by injecting a drug called Digoxin into its heart. a long needle is guided through the mother's abdomen into the baby's beating heart. Also on the first day, the abortionist inserts laminaria into the woman's cervix.

Laminaria are thin sticks of seaweed material that absorb moisture and expand. The process dilates (opens) the cervix for the abortion. The abortionist will replace the laminaria each day using more sticks each time. This process can take several days.

After the baby is dead and the cervix is fully dilated, the abotionist delivers the dead baby while the mother is under twilight anesthesia. They use Versed and Nubain for anesthesia. Misoprostol and Oxytocin are used to induce labor. Misoprostol (Cytotec) is an ulcer medication that is not labeled for use in abortions.

the majority of abortions occur in the first 12 weeks via suction. a late term abortion is rare and IS NOT elective, meaning the woman has to have a damn good reason for aborting, whether it be for her health, or because the pregnancy has gone wrong and the fetus is fatally ill.

the heart of the fetus beats at 14 days after conception and brain waves are detectable at 6 weeks. please watch this video

Yep, Im going to respond to you again. *gasp*

The heart doesnt start beating until around the 5th or 6th week of gesdation.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prenatal-care/PR00112
http://uuhsc.utah.edu/pated/handouts/handout.cfm?id=445
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/PR/00112.html

Just a sugjestion, but it usually helps to use correct facts.

oh a sugjestion thank you, I have a sugjestion for you learn how to spell read this if you can

[WitheringRoseOfDecay]

Barely_evil

WitheringRoseOfDecay

Barely_evil

WitheringRoseOfDecay

Barely_evil

life begins at conception. why then will you not protect the fetus when it cannot tell you if it's in pain? how can you know that being aborted is painless??

because, it's been proven that the fetus doesn't feel pain until the cerebral cortex and the thalamus are both formed, and when the receptors that generate the sensation of pain connect these two parts of the brain. without these key parts of the brain, the nerves do not function, therefore there is no pain. here's a few websites that prove it.
link 1
link 2
link 3

also, life may begin at conception, but sentience and personhood do not.

personhood? day 22nd of a fetus' development, the heat is beating with it's own blood, not that of the mother's. Yes there have been studies done on whether or not a fetus can feel pain, but there is no proof as we cannot measure a fetus' pain threshold or anyone's for that matter.

um, yes there is proof. neorologists know what parts of the brain do what, and when they develop. and having a heartbeat proves what?

so someone told you that your fetus inside you, that could one day become your pride and joy, cannot feel pain. so you take their word on the issue and have your fetus destroyed because you think they can't feel it>? Have you had an abortion? I'm assuming you have, seeing how you can justify it this way.

not that it's ANY of your business, but no i have not. i make damn sure i never get pregnant. however, i have spoken to a woman who works in neorology, specifically pediatrics. i trust her information, as well as any other person with medical training. your ASSumptions were incorrect. surprise surprise rolleyes

[20 Shades of Crazy]

Barely_evil

Veolin

Barely_evil

WitheringRoseOfDecay

Barely_evil

what about inuced miscarriages? late term abortions using the MOLD method. MOLD is an abbreviation of the components used in the abortion: Misoprostol, Oxytocin, Laminaria, and Digoxin. Claimed to be a "normal, safe, natural miscarriage".

On the first day of the process, the baby is killed by injecting a drug called Digoxin into its heart. a long needle is guided through the mother's abdomen into the baby's beating heart. Also on the first day, the abortionist inserts laminaria into the woman's cervix.

Laminaria are thin sticks of seaweed material that absorb moisture and expand. The process dilates (opens) the cervix for the abortion. The abortionist will replace the laminaria each day using more sticks each time. This process can take several days.

After the baby is dead and the cervix is fully dilated, the abotionist delivers the dead baby while the mother is under twilight anesthesia. They use Versed and Nubain for anesthesia. Misoprostol and Oxytocin are used to induce labor. Misoprostol (Cytotec) is an ulcer medication that is not labeled for use in abortions.

the majority of abortions occur in the first 12 weeks via suction. a late term abortion is rare and IS NOT elective, meaning the woman has to have a damn good reason for aborting, whether it be for her health, or because the pregnancy has gone wrong and the fetus is fatally ill.

the heart of the fetus beats at 14 days after conception and brain waves are detectable at 6 weeks. please watch this video

Yep, Im going to respond to you again. *gasp*

The heart doesnt start beating until around the 5th or 6th week of gesdation.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prenatal-care/PR00112
http://uuhsc.utah.edu/pated/handouts/handout.cfm?id=445
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/PR/00112.html

Just a sugjestion, but it usually helps to use correct facts.

oh a sugjestion thank you, I have a sugjestion for you [strikethrough]learn how to spell read this if you can

Learn BBC code.
On top of that, learn how to capitalize your sentences before you go off on spelling and grammar. |:

[Raina Luxe]

WitheringRoseOfDecay

Barely_evil

WitheringRoseOfDecay

Barely_evil

WitheringRoseOfDecay

Barely_evil

life begins at conception. why then will you not protect the fetus when it cannot tell you if it's in pain? how can you know that being aborted is painless??

because, it's been proven that the fetus doesn't feel pain until the cerebral cortex and the thalamus are both formed, and when the receptors that generate the sensation of pain connect these two parts of the brain. without these key parts of the brain, the nerves do not function, therefore there is no pain. here's a few websites that prove it.
link 1
link 2
link 3

also, life may begin at conception, but sentience and personhood do not.

personhood? day 22nd of a fetus' development, the heat is beating with it's own blood, not that of the mother's. Yes there have been studies done on whether or not a fetus can feel pain, but there is no proof as we cannot measure a fetus' pain threshold or anyone's for that matter.

um, yes there is proof. neorologists know what parts of the brain do what, and when they develop. and having a heartbeat proves what?

so someone told you that your fetus inside you, that could one day become your pride and joy, cannot feel pain. so you take their word on the issue and have your fetus destroyed because you think they can't feel it>? Have you had an abortion? I'm assuming you have, seeing how you can justify it this way.

not that it's ANY of your business, but no i have not. i make damn sure i never get pregnant. however, i have spoken to a woman who works in neorology, specifically pediatrics. i trust her information, as well as any other person with medical training. your ASSumptions were incorrect. surprise surprise rolleyes

I think I like you a little better now, that is if you are telling the truth, I despise women who have abortions.

[ottery]

20 Shades of Crazy

Barely_evil

Veolin

Barely_evil

WitheringRoseOfDecay

Barely_evil

what about inuced miscarriages? late term abortions using the MOLD method. MOLD is an abbreviation of the components used in the abortion: Misoprostol, Oxytocin, Laminaria, and Digoxin. Claimed to be a "normal, safe, natural miscarriage".

On the first day of the process, the baby is killed by injecting a drug called Digoxin into its heart. a long needle is guided through the mother's abdomen into the baby's beating heart. Also on the first day, the abortionist inserts laminaria into the woman's cervix.

Laminaria are thin sticks of seaweed material that absorb moisture and expand. The process dilates (opens) the cervix for the abortion. The abortionist will replace the laminaria each day using more sticks each time. This process can take several days.

After the baby is dead and the cervix is fully dilated, the abotionist delivers the dead baby while the mother is under twilight anesthesia. They use Versed and Nubain for anesthesia. Misoprostol and Oxytocin are used to induce labor. Misoprostol (Cytotec) is an ulcer medication that is not labeled for use in abortions.

the majority of abortions occur in the first 12 weeks via suction. a late term abortion is rare and IS NOT elective, meaning the woman has to have a damn good reason for aborting, whether it be for her health, or because the pregnancy has gone wrong and the fetus is fatally ill.

the heart of the fetus beats at 14 days after conception and brain waves are detectable at 6 weeks. please watch this video

Yep, Im going to respond to you again. *gasp*

The heart doesnt start beating until around the 5th or 6th week of gesdation.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prenatal-care/PR00112
http://uuhsc.utah.edu/pated/handouts/handout.cfm?id=445
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/PR/00112.html

Just a sugjestion, but it usually helps to use correct facts.

oh a sugjestion thank you, I have a sugjestion for you [strikethrough]learn how to spell read this if you can

Learn BBC code.
On top of that, learn how to capitalize your sentences before you go off on spelling and grammar. |:

Also, might I add that she is trying to link to the national right to life website, so it's gonna be biased info.

[Veolin]

Barely_evil

Veolin

Barely_evil

Veolin

You said that it would be reasonable to believe that I would have no more compassion for a living baby then I would a fetus.

that's not what I said. I was talking to witheringrose of decay thank you. I would reccomend reading my posts before you redpond.

Then I guess I must have just imagined it when you posted "It's reasonable to believe that you would have no more compassion on a living born baby than you have on living preborn babies"

when I said you I meant her. I was not directly talking to you and actually I had quoted her so I was responding to her. sorry I had to spoonfeed you

Let me see if I can break this down to a second grade comprehension level for you.

Statements like you're earlier one (you know, the one I was addressing incase its too hard for you to fallow along) are open statements. By saying its reasonable to assume that of one person you are also saying that its reasonable to assume that of all people unless you give a viable reason why the person you’re talking to is the exception from everyone else.

Now, I thought I said this before, but I guess it went a little over your head as you cant seem to grasp the concept. In the ED, any post you make no matter who its addressing can be responded to by anyone. If you don't like it then leave, because myself and others are going to do it whether you like it or not. Its part of being in a discussion forum. How hard is that to grasp?

[Z3Ncat]

Barely_evil

Z3Ncat

Barely_evil

WitheringRoseOfDecay

Barely_evil

freedom to choose? ha! freedom to kill their children. It's reasonable to believe that you would have no more compassion on a living born baby than you have on living preborn babies

infanticide or the killing of children IS NOT a freedom and you know it. a fetus IS NOT a child YET. i have a ******** of compassion for a born infant, because the infant is sentient and deserves protection.

life begins at conception. why then will you not protect the fetus when it cannot tell you if it's in pain? how can you know that being aborted is painless??

If, by your logic, life begins at conception and a woman is obligated to use her body to keep it alive... then 3/4 of the sexually active women in the world who are still ovulating are guilty of manslaughter at the least. Because, amazingly enough, despite what some nitwit in Colorado thinks (and I shudder to think of how many may be stupid enough to agree), a fertilized egg is NOT guaranteed, even by biology alone, the 'right' to attach to the uterine wall and begin the growth into an zygote. 3/4 of the women out there will, during the course of their lifetime, lose a fertilized egg during their period.

Also, declaring that life begins at conception means you must obviously be against any type of IVF.

but the women who are shedding a fertillized egg are not doing so by their own will, they're not willingly driving to the clinic to have their accident child vaccuumed out of their womb.

So? Fact remains, if you believe that life begins the second a sperm hits an egg, most of the female population has committed manslaughter.

Also, you missed the part where I pointed out that believing life begins at conception means that you can't support in-vitro fertilization treatments.

[Veolin]

Barely_evil

Veolin

Barely_evil

WitheringRoseOfDecay

Barely_evil

what about inuced miscarriages? late term abortions using the MOLD method. MOLD is an abbreviation of the components used in the abortion: Misoprostol, Oxytocin, Laminaria, and Digoxin. Claimed to be a "normal, safe, natural miscarriage".

On the first day of the process, the baby is killed by injecting a drug called Digoxin into its heart. a long needle is guided through the mother's abdomen into the baby's beating heart. Also on the first day, the abortionist inserts laminaria into the woman's cervix.

Laminaria are thin sticks of seaweed material that absorb moisture and expand. The process dilates (opens) the cervix for the abortion. The abortionist will replace the laminaria each day using more sticks each time. This process can take several days.

After the baby is dead and the cervix is fully dilated, the abotionist delivers the dead baby while the mother is under twilight anesthesia. They use Versed and Nubain for anesthesia. Misoprostol and Oxytocin are used to induce labor. Misoprostol (Cytotec) is an ulcer medication that is not labeled for use in abortions.

the majority of abortions occur in the first 12 weeks via suction. a late term abortion is rare and IS NOT elective, meaning the woman has to have a damn good reason for aborting, whether it be for her health, or because the pregnancy has gone wrong and the fetus is fatally ill.

the heart of the fetus beats at 14 days after conception and brain waves are detectable at 6 weeks. please watch this video

Yep, Im going to respond to you again. *gasp*

The heart doesnt start beating until around the 5th or 6th week of gesdation.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prenatal-care/PR00112
http://uuhsc.utah.edu/pated/handouts/handout.cfm?id=445
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/PR/00112.html

Just a sugjestion, but it usually helps to use correct facts.

oh a sugjestion thank you, I have a sugjestion for you learn how to spell read this if you can

Ohh a call on my spelling. Im shaking inside. Too bad it doesnt change the fact that you dont have your facts right which for your bennifit I would sugjest paying attention to as it tends to hurt your argument.

While there are numerous other sourses I can find along with the three I gave to show that your one sourse is incorrect, part of me does find it kind of intertaining and somewhat funny that you cant even correctly site from your own sourse.

"• Day 22 – heart begins to beat with the child’s own blood, often a different type than the mother’s"-From your sourse. Day 22 doesnt quite match up with day 14 now does it?

[ottery]

Barely_evil

WitheringRoseOfDecay

Barely_evil

WitheringRoseOfDecay

Barely_evil

personhood? day 22nd of a fetus' development, the heat is beating with it's own blood, not that of the mother's. Yes there have been studies done on whether or not a fetus can feel pain, but there is no proof as we cannot measure a fetus' pain threshold or anyone's for that matter.

um, yes there is proof. neorologists know what parts of the brain do what, and when they develop. and having a heartbeat proves what?

so someone told you that your fetus inside you, that could one day become your pride and joy, cannot feel pain. so you take their word on the issue and have your fetus destroyed because you think they can't feel it>? Have you had an abortion? I'm assuming you have, seeing how you can justify it this way.

not that it's ANY of your business, but no i have not. i make damn sure i never get pregnant. however, i have spoken to a woman who works in neorology, specifically pediatrics. i trust her information, as well as any other person with medical training. your ASSumptions were incorrect. surprise surprise rolleyes

I think I like you a little better now, that is if you are telling the truth, I despise women who have abortions.

So even though I volunteered at an animal shelter, I never break the law, and I only had 1 sexual partner who I dated for 4 years before having protected sex with him, I am evil because I was poor and my BC failed? Jeez, some standards you have...

[Z3Ncat]

ottery

Barely_evil

WitheringRoseOfDecay

Barely_evil

WitheringRoseOfDecay

Barely_evil

personhood? day 22nd of a fetus' development, the heat is beating with it's own blood, not that of the mother's. Yes there have been studies done on whether or not a fetus can feel pain, but there is no proof as we cannot measure a fetus' pain threshold or anyone's for that matter.

um, yes there is proof. neorologists know what parts of the brain do what, and when they develop. and having a heartbeat proves what?

so someone told you that your fetus inside you, that could one day become your pride and joy, cannot feel pain. so you take their word on the issue and have your fetus destroyed because you think they can't feel it>? Have you had an abortion? I'm assuming you have, seeing how you can justify it this way.

not that it's ANY of your business, but no i have not. i make damn sure i never get pregnant. however, i have spoken to a woman who works in neorology, specifically pediatrics. i trust her information, as well as any other person with medical training. your ASSumptions were incorrect. surprise surprise rolleyes

I think I like you a little better now, that is if you are telling the truth, I despise women who have abortions.

So even though I volunteered at an animal shelter, I never break the law, and I only had 1 sexual partner who I dated for 4 years before having protected sex with him, I am evil because I was poor and my BC failed? Jeez, some standards you have...

Yes. Yes you are. Apparently. rolleyes

Also, on a somewhat tangental topic - I just posted this in another thread, but you bring up animal shelters - why, if it's the responsible thing to spay our cats and dogs, isn't it the responsible thing to spay people? At least the ones who WANT it, damnit! It's no fair that my cat got her kitten-making parts taken out automatically when she was put into the shelter I adopted her from, but I can't find anyone willing to do the same for me... and I'm willing to PAY THEM. I'm gonna sit here and pout. And be jealous, yet again, of my cat.

[Veolin]

Z3Ncat

ottery

Barely_evil

WitheringRoseOfDecay

Barely_evil

so someone told you that your fetus inside you, that could one day become your pride and joy, cannot feel pain. so you take their word on the issue and have your fetus destroyed because you think they can't feel it>? Have you had an abortion? I'm assuming you have, seeing how you can justify it this way.

not that it's ANY of your business, but no i have not. i make damn sure i never get pregnant. however, i have spoken to a woman who works in neorology, specifically pediatrics. i trust her information, as well as any other person with medical training. your ASSumptions were incorrect. surprise surprise rolleyes

I think I like you a little better now, that is if you are telling the truth, I despise women who have abortions.

So even though I volunteered at an animal shelter, I never break the law, and I only had 1 sexual partner who I dated for 4 years before having protected sex with him, I am evil because I was poor and my BC failed? Jeez, some standards you have...

Yes. Yes you are. Apparently. rolleyes

Also, on a somewhat tangental topic - I just posted this in another thread, but you bring up animal shelters - why, if it's the responsible thing to spay our cats and dogs, isn't it the responsible thing to spay people? At least the ones who WANT it, damnit! It's no fair that my cat got her kitten-making parts taken out automatically when she was put into the shelter I adopted her from, but I can't find anyone willing to do the same for me... and I'm willing to PAY THEM. I'm gonna sit here and pout. And be jealous, yet again, of my cat.

You know, thats a good point. And more importantly, why is it so easy for a guy to get a visectomy, but doctors make it difficult for a woman to get her tubes tied if she doesnt want kids.