The Abortion Debate

[Kata Samoes]

The Emissary of Nod

Kata Samoes

KinkaGirl

Really? You make it sound so trivial. Perhaps some people didn't know these things?

You seemed to have over looked the most important piece, at least what I think is the most important. I'm going to assume that was just an accident.

This is now the third time I'm posting this. I will add the other part of it to clarify, because it seems to be needed.

74% of abortions are because the mother can't/won't take care of a child.
4% of abortions are due to rape.

Basic facts =/= common knowledge. They are simply basic facts.

And why are you trying to push WHY she's aborting? Sex isn't solely for procreation.

Fixed.

Corrected.

Sex only has a purpose of the couple involved choose it, and it can be and will be different than for procreation. When argued it's for procreation, it's then refuted that it is for other functions than procreation, and cannot be solely one. So while, yes, I agree that "solely" would be logical, it wasn't necessarily needed to make my point.

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

The anti-abortion billboards you see are typically from CPCs. They also advertise in books like the Yellow Pages under "abortion alternatives" or "pregnancy help", etc. One I saw tried to claim that "abortion hurts women". Most likely, they were basing that off of the completely unproven and much-refuted "Post Abortion Syndrome" that they claim women get after they have abortions. They also try to claim that abortion causes breast cancer, which has been refuted by nearly every major cancer-prevention group. (For example, American Cancer Society.)

CPCs also often try to imply in advertising that they do provide abortions, unbiased information on abortion, or help obtaining an abortion. They also often try to make themselves look like actual medical clinics. (Both tactics are described in the article I posted.) Sometimes, they even give out false information about birth control, as evidenced by these images:



Image from GOOD Magazine

The pamphlet says that birth control has potential health risks (which is true of all medication), but does not explain what these are. It also claims that birth control induces abortion, and that abstinence is the only medically safe type of contraceptive, neither of which are true.

The problem is not that these places provide help to pregnant women. It's important that pregnant women are given the resources they need to take care of themselves, and it's great that people want to help them. Esepcially when you consider that some young women are thrown out of their homes by their parents and things like that. The problem with CPCs is that they lie to women. They're not just altruistically helping women who have already chosen to continue their pregnancies, they exist to prevent women from aborting unwanted pregnancies. And very often, they feel that this goal justifies lying to and intimidating women who are often scared and have nowhere else to turn.

[Fury of Jude]

I only support legal abortion because illegal abortion would put the mother at unnecessary risk. So I'm sort of in between. Sort of like the Bush-Edwards election, a lesser of two evils.
On the subject of help, there's actually a place called the PCW, pregnancy center west, that advertises here in Cincinnati, Ohio all over the place.

[Z3Ncat]

And the ******** get funded with tax dollars that could be used for... oh, I don't know... maybe COMPREHENSIVE sex education? A revamping of the education system in general in the US? Opening more women's health centers that deal with ALL reproductive health issues, not just provide abortions? Hell, I'd rather that money go to support the soldiers in Iraq, because gods know they could use it.

[Deformography]

HehFire

I only support legal abortion because illegal abortion would put the mother at unnecessary risk. So I'm sort of in between. Sort of like the Bush-Edwards election, a lesser of two evils.
On the subject of help, there's actually a place called the PCW, pregnancy center west, that advertises here in Cincinnati, Ohio all over the place.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's a CPC. Read some of the stuff that Phaedra's been posting about those places; it'll really open your eyes to how underhanded they are.

[Kata Samoes]

HehFire

I only support legal abortion because illegal abortion would put the mother at unnecessary risk. So I'm sort of in between. Sort of like the Bush-Edwards election, a lesser of two evils.
On the subject of help, there's actually a place called the PCW, pregnancy center west, that advertises here in Cincinnati, Ohio all over the place.

Then you're pro-choice. Doesn't matter if you disagree with it, you won't try to stop it and you gave the reason why.

[Machine Kontrol]

Kata Samoes

The Emissary of Nod

Kata Samoes

KinkaGirl

Really? You make it sound so trivial. Perhaps some people didn't know these things?

You seemed to have over looked the most important piece, at least what I think is the most important. I'm going to assume that was just an accident.

This is now the third time I'm posting this. I will add the other part of it to clarify, because it seems to be needed.

74% of abortions are because the mother can't/won't take care of a child.
4% of abortions are due to rape.

Basic facts =/= common knowledge. They are simply basic facts.

And why are you trying to push WHY she's aborting? Sex isn't solely for procreation.

Fixed.

Corrected.

Sex only has a purpose of the couple involved choose it, and it can be and will be different than for procreation. When argued it's for procreation, it's then refuted that it is for other functions than procreation, and cannot be solely one. So while, yes, I agree that "solely" would be logical, it wasn't necessarily needed to make my point.

Whereas I was speaking in a general sense of all the possible purposes that sex could have. I agree that the purpose is dependant on the intentions of the couple who engage in the act, but I am speaking that pro-creation is a possible purpose.

[_C r y s t a l_RB]

Deformography

HehFire

I only support legal abortion because illegal abortion would put the mother at unnecessary risk. So I'm sort of in between. Sort of like the Bush-Edwards election, a lesser of two evils.
On the subject of help, there's actually a place called the PCW, pregnancy center west, that advertises here in Cincinnati, Ohio all over the place.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's a CPC. Read some of the stuff that Phaedra's been posting about those places; it'll really open your eyes to how underhanded they are.

I think it is. I too live in Cinci, Ohio.

[Freedom Fire]

Z3Ncat

And the ******** get funded with tax dollars that could be used for... oh, I don't know... maybe COMPREHENSIVE sex education? A revamping of the education system in general in the US? Opening more women's health centers that deal with ALL reproductive health issues, not just provide abortions? Hell, I'd rather that money go to support the soldiers in Iraq, because gods know they could use it.

YES!

My God, when I do eventually get a job (hopefully this summer *crosses fingers*) I want my tax dollars going towards IMPROVING the country. Abstinence-only programs have been proven to be dangerous and ineffective, why are billions of our hard-earned tax dollars funding them?

Is it just me, or does the government care more about abstinence than, oh I don't know, music? Art? Gym? Home economics? Quality education in general? Putting more emphasis on nutrition and fitness in health classes to combat the growing obesity rate?

No, screw music. Who needs music when you can shove outdated morality down kids' throats with bullshit scare tactics that have been proven to fail?

[DCVI]

Z3Ncat

And the ******** get funded with tax dollars that could be used for... oh, I don't know... maybe COMPREHENSIVE sex education? A revamping of the education system in general in the US? Opening more women's health centers that deal with ALL reproductive health issues, not just provide abortions? Hell, I'd rather that money go to support the soldiers in Iraq, because gods know they could use it.

I think this is funny.

"Don't tell ME what to do with MY body."
"What about the impressionable children?"
"Here's a list of things they should know..."

[MedicAudino]

kp is dcvi

Z3Ncat

And the ******** get funded with tax dollars that could be used for... oh, I don't know... maybe COMPREHENSIVE sex education? A revamping of the education system in general in the US? Opening more women's health centers that deal with ALL reproductive health issues, not just provide abortions? Hell, I'd rather that money go to support the soldiers in Iraq, because gods know they could use it.

I think this is funny.

"Don't tell ME what to do with MY body."
"What about the impressionable children?"
"Here's a list of things they should know..."

I'm sorry, but are honestly against telling children the truth? I know all I learned in sex-ed was that condoms don't work, birth control is bad and we had to do some happy-lala-land project about how much a baby costs. Please don't try to say that actually helps our children to grow and learn.

[DCVI]

Pyramid Head`s Toy

kp is dcvi

Z3Ncat

And the ******** get funded with tax dollars that could be used for... oh, I don't know... maybe COMPREHENSIVE sex education? A revamping of the education system in general in the US? Opening more women's health centers that deal with ALL reproductive health issues, not just provide abortions? Hell, I'd rather that money go to support the soldiers in Iraq, because gods know they could use it.

I think this is funny.

"Don't tell ME what to do with MY body."
"What about the impressionable children?"
"Here's a list of things they should know..."

I'm sorry, but are honestly against telling children the truth? I know all I learned in sex-ed was that condoms don't work, birth control is bad and we had to do some happy-lala-land project about how much a baby costs. Please don't try to say that actually helps our children to grow and learn.

...did I say that?

Whether or not a parent wants their child to have authority figures condoning sex... that's the uncertainty here.

[MedicAudino]

kp is dcvi

Pyramid Head`s Toy

kp is dcvi

Z3Ncat

And the ******** get funded with tax dollars that could be used for... oh, I don't know... maybe COMPREHENSIVE sex education? A revamping of the education system in general in the US? Opening more women's health centers that deal with ALL reproductive health issues, not just provide abortions? Hell, I'd rather that money go to support the soldiers in Iraq, because gods know they could use it.

I think this is funny.

"Don't tell ME what to do with MY body."
"What about the impressionable children?"
"Here's a list of things they should know..."

I'm sorry, but are honestly against telling children the truth? I know all I learned in sex-ed was that condoms don't work, birth control is bad and we had to do some happy-lala-land project about how much a baby costs. Please don't try to say that actually helps our children to grow and learn.

...did I say that?

Whether or not a parent wants their child to have authority figures condoning sex... that's the uncertainty here.

It's not condoning sex, it's telling the truth. How is teaching "This is the failure rate for a condom, this the failure rate of BC, it isn't the 100%. If you are going to have sex use them, but the best way to avoid any problems is by not having sex" condoning sex?

[DCVI]

Pyramid Head`s Toy

kp is dcvi

Pyramid Head`s Toy

kp is dcvi

Z3Ncat

And the ******** get funded with tax dollars that could be used for... oh, I don't know... maybe COMPREHENSIVE sex education? A revamping of the education system in general in the US? Opening more women's health centers that deal with ALL reproductive health issues, not just provide abortions? Hell, I'd rather that money go to support the soldiers in Iraq, because gods know they could use it.

I think this is funny.

"Don't tell ME what to do with MY body."
"What about the impressionable children?"
"Here's a list of things they should know..."

I'm sorry, but are honestly against telling children the truth? I know all I learned in sex-ed was that condoms don't work, birth control is bad and we had to do some happy-lala-land project about how much a baby costs. Please don't try to say that actually helps our children to grow and learn.

...did I say that?

Whether or not a parent wants their child to have authority figures condoning sex... that's the uncertainty here.

It's not condoning sex, it's telling the truth. How is teaching "This is the failure rate for a condom, this the failure rate of BC, it isn't the 100%. If you are going to have sex use them, but the best way to avoid any problems is by not having sex" condoning sex?

I think it's pretty obvious.

If you're showing a group of fourteen year olds how to unroll a condom onto a banana, you have a very specific message. While you may not be saying "Yes" to sex for these children, you are not saying "No". A middle ground is still allowing, if there is no condemnation.

[MedicAudino]

kp is dcvi

Pyramid Head`s Toy

It's not condoning sex, it's telling the truth. How is teaching "This is the failure rate for a condom, this the failure rate of BC, it isn't the 100%. If you are going to have sex use them, but the best way to avoid any problems is by not having sex" condoning sex?

I think it's pretty obvious.

If you're showing a group of fourteen year olds how to unroll a condom onto a banana, you have a very specific message. While you may not be saying "Yes" to sex for these children, you are not saying "No". A middle ground is still allowing, if there is no condemnation.

Why do you assume that just because they are being taught safe methods of doing things that it is a bad thing? Teenagers will not go "hey I was just taught how to use a condom, I think I need to get laid right now!" no matter what they will want to have sex. So why is it bad to show them how to be safe?