The Abortion Debate

[princess_colex]

kp is dcvi

princess_colex

kp is dcvi

princess_colex

kp is dcvi

That's because it's like arguing with a brick wall.

Anyone who believes it's better to kill then to give a chance at life... that's someone difficult to argue with. In the case of the adoption system, anyone who thinks that their child is better off dead then given a shot at life in the adoption system just won't listen to any other reason.

According to this viewpoint, shouldn't women try to have as many children as possible? I mean, our egg cells would certainly be better off if they were given a chance at life, even if it were in an adoption system.

An unfertilized egg is an unfertilized egg. A canvas without the paint is only a canvas. TWO things make one whole.

Don't misconstrue what i'm saying. Unfertilized eggs are just eggs, they won't grow into humans.

Okay, maybe I misconstrued...

But just because an egg has been fertilized doesn't automatically make it human. That is the big question here: what determines humanity?

I don't see a zygote as being human because it doesn't have a brain function yet or anything. To me, a zygote is just a bunch of cells attatches to the wall of the uterus.

A fetus is pushing it... It does not have the bodily functions to survive outside the mother's womb. Technically, it is still part of the mother, like a limb, and she can do what she wants with it because it is in her bodily domain.

A fetus has the potential to become human, but not all fetii necessarily do. Some are aborted naturally, or miscarried because the mother's body cannot support it.

I see any fertilized egg as human. That is easily evidenced by who conceived the child in the first place... two human beings.

Species wise... if you aren't a human once, you aren't a human, ever. Same with any other species. Your age does not change your species. (Although that may not be the case with animals that undergo a metamorphosis, like Butterflies).

An egg comes from a human as well. How is it any less human than a fetus?

[s u n e k o s u r i]

princess_colex

kp is dcvi

princess_colex

kp is dcvi

princess_colex

kp is dcvi

That's because it's like arguing with a brick wall.

Anyone who believes it's better to kill then to give a chance at life... that's someone difficult to argue with. In the case of the adoption system, anyone who thinks that their child is better off dead then given a shot at life in the adoption system just won't listen to any other reason.

According to this viewpoint, shouldn't women try to have as many children as possible? I mean, our egg cells would certainly be better off if they were given a chance at life, even if it were in an adoption system.

An unfertilized egg is an unfertilized egg. A canvas without the paint is only a canvas. TWO things make one whole.

Don't misconstrue what i'm saying. Unfertilized eggs are just eggs, they won't grow into humans.

Okay, maybe I misconstrued...

But just because an egg has been fertilized doesn't automatically make it human. That is the big question here: what determines humanity?

I don't see a zygote as being human because it doesn't have a brain function yet or anything. To me, a zygote is just a bunch of cells attatches to the wall of the uterus.

A fetus is pushing it... It does not have the bodily functions to survive outside the mother's womb. Technically, it is still part of the mother, like a limb, and she can do what she wants with it because it is in her bodily domain.

A fetus has the potential to become human, but not all fetii necessarily do. Some are aborted naturally, or miscarried because the mother's body cannot support it.

I see any fertilized egg as human. That is easily evidenced by who conceived the child in the first place... two human beings.

Species wise... if you aren't a human once, you aren't a human, ever. Same with any other species. Your age does not change your species. (Although that may not be the case with animals that undergo a metamorphosis, like Butterflies).

An egg comes from a human as well. How is it any less human than a fetus?

Very well said.

[DCVI]

Nobody Famous

kp is dcvi

Nobody Famous

kp is dcvi

Nobody Famous

You will find there will be a lack of reply to this point. I would know. I, and I'm sure several others as well, have brought up this point a multitude of times to no avail. Either the pro-lifers will ignore it completely, or they'll nit-pick at the slightest word out of place to take the attention off the main point you tried to make.

That's because it's like arguing with a brick wall.

Anyone who believes it's better to kill then to give a chance at life... that's someone difficult to argue with. In the case of the adoption system, anyone who thinks that their child is better off dead then given a shot at life in the adoption system just won't listen to any other reason.

That depends on your belief system. Some people believe that life starts at conception. Some people believe that life does not begin until first breath, so aborting a fetus would be considered more as preventing a vessel from developing enough for the soul to enter.

Is the child better off in the adoption system than aborted before he or she can even perceive such a quality of life? I don't think we'll ever really know. But all the same, it's hypocritical for someone to point to adoption as the answer when they, themselves, have no intention of adopting or otherwise helping the mother or child, nor show any care for the quality of life after he or she is born. Because adoption isn't the only answer for mothers who unwillingly carried their children to term, and even that can be harsh enough for a child.

No it's not. neutral

Everytime you vote, do YOU vote for the candidate that best defends human equality? On ALL counts? Have YOU donated to abortion rights movements? Have you stood against Pro-life picketers and countered their slander, protecting the rights (and well-being) of women getting abortion?

Or let me ask you this: Do you have any personal beliefs about our jailing system? Here's a question: YOU plan on being jailed any time soon? Plan on bailing anyone out anytime soon?

Actually, it is. You're advocating for abortion to not be considered a choice for the mothers, yet you're not helping them out or giving workable alternatives.

Then we're all hypocrites over something because we all have not done something to help further ALL our causes. It's near impossible.

Quote:

Could you please explain the point of the questions? They're subjective, open to individual interpretation, and don't appear to have much to do with the current topic.

Very well. Do you have an opinion on the jail system? It's the same concept. Next, if you say yes: Do you plan on participating in the system in any way, shape, or form? No? According to your logic, you are a hypocrite. Change jail system to "War effort". Same question. Change jail system to "AIDS crisis". Same question.

We're only human. We can't further ALL our causes. If we did, further them, significantly, I'd imagine it would take huge amounts of time out of our lives.

Quote:

Also, I should note that I'm not advocating for abortion, I'm advocating for each individual to be allowed to make their own choice on whether or not to have an abortion. To try and take away such a choice is hypocritical if one is willing to do nothing to offer a better alternative.

Objectively speaking, I don't see any reason why a Pro-choicer or Pro-life NEED to help. Not helping doesn't make them a hypocrite. Holding a view does not necessarily mean you can or should act to help it.

I do plan on helping women in need somewhere down the road. I'm actually very much in a good position to get something organized. I just need a good idea and a good group to back me.

[DCVI]

princess_colex

kp is dcvi

princess_colex

kp is dcvi

princess_colex

kp is dcvi

That's because it's like arguing with a brick wall.

Anyone who believes it's better to kill then to give a chance at life... that's someone difficult to argue with. In the case of the adoption system, anyone who thinks that their child is better off dead then given a shot at life in the adoption system just won't listen to any other reason.

According to this viewpoint, shouldn't women try to have as many children as possible? I mean, our egg cells would certainly be better off if they were given a chance at life, even if it were in an adoption system.

An unfertilized egg is an unfertilized egg. A canvas without the paint is only a canvas. TWO things make one whole.

Don't misconstrue what i'm saying. Unfertilized eggs are just eggs, they won't grow into humans.

Okay, maybe I misconstrued...

But just because an egg has been fertilized doesn't automatically make it human. That is the big question here: what determines humanity?

I don't see a zygote as being human because it doesn't have a brain function yet or anything. To me, a zygote is just a bunch of cells attatches to the wall of the uterus.

A fetus is pushing it... It does not have the bodily functions to survive outside the mother's womb. Technically, it is still part of the mother, like a limb, and she can do what she wants with it because it is in her bodily domain.

A fetus has the potential to become human, but not all fetii necessarily do. Some are aborted naturally, or miscarried because the mother's body cannot support it.

I see any fertilized egg as human. That is easily evidenced by who conceived the child in the first place... two human beings.

Species wise... if you aren't a human once, you aren't a human, ever. Same with any other species. Your age does not change your species. (Although that may not be the case with animals that undergo a metamorphosis, like Butterflies).

An egg comes from a human as well. How is it any less human than a fetus?

Because an egg cell is not a human. It's an egg cell. It's a HUMAN'S egg cell, true. But it isn't a HUMAN.

[DCVI]

Deformography

loveltstone

kp is dcvi

loveltstone

How much does an abortion cost compared to childbirth?

Birth: around 11,000, without complication.
http://www.bcbsnc.com/apps/cost-estimator/report.do?type=inpatient&sub=14

Abortion: Roughly 375 for... medicinal. Read up on that last year on PP's website. Don't have the link.

WOW!!! that's expensive i think i'll take the abortion for 375.

A box of condoms is cheaper yet!

Best point of the evening.

[s u n e k o s u r i]

kp is dcvi

princess_colex

kp is dcvi

princess_colex

kp is dcvi

An unfertilized egg is an unfertilized egg. A canvas without the paint is only a canvas. TWO things make one whole.

Don't misconstrue what i'm saying. Unfertilized eggs are just eggs, they won't grow into humans.

Okay, maybe I misconstrued...

But just because an egg has been fertilized doesn't automatically make it human. That is the big question here: what determines humanity?

I don't see a zygote as being human because it doesn't have a brain function yet or anything. To me, a zygote is just a bunch of cells attatches to the wall of the uterus.

A fetus is pushing it... It does not have the bodily functions to survive outside the mother's womb. Technically, it is still part of the mother, like a limb, and she can do what she wants with it because it is in her bodily domain.

A fetus has the potential to become human, but not all fetii necessarily do. Some are aborted naturally, or miscarried because the mother's body cannot support it.

I see any fertilized egg as human. That is easily evidenced by who conceived the child in the first place... two human beings.

Species wise... if you aren't a human once, you aren't a human, ever. Same with any other species. Your age does not change your species. (Although that may not be the case with animals that undergo a metamorphosis, like Butterflies).

An egg comes from a human as well. How is it any less human than a fetus?

Because an egg cell is not a human. It's an egg cell. It's a HUMAN'S egg cell, true. But it isn't a HUMAN.

Well can you explain t my why it is not a human?
Cause' quite frankly I don't understand what you are saying.

[loveltstone]

Deformography

loveltstone

kp is dcvi

loveltstone

How much does an abortion cost compared to childbirth?

Birth: around 11,000, without complication.
http://www.bcbsnc.com/apps/cost-estimator/report.do?type=inpatient&sub=14

Abortion: Roughly 375 for... medicinal. Read up on that last year on PP's website. Don't have the link.

WOW!!! that's expensive i think i'll take the abortion for 375.

A box of condoms is cheaper yet!

yep i rather spend $1.oo on a condom then over 100,000 on a baby.

[DCVI]

s u n e k o s u r i

kp is dcvi

princess_colex

kp is dcvi

princess_colex

kp is dcvi

An unfertilized egg is an unfertilized egg. A canvas without the paint is only a canvas. TWO things make one whole.

Don't misconstrue what i'm saying. Unfertilized eggs are just eggs, they won't grow into humans.

Okay, maybe I misconstrued...

But just because an egg has been fertilized doesn't automatically make it human. That is the big question here: what determines humanity?

I don't see a zygote as being human because it doesn't have a brain function yet or anything. To me, a zygote is just a bunch of cells attatches to the wall of the uterus.

A fetus is pushing it... It does not have the bodily functions to survive outside the mother's womb. Technically, it is still part of the mother, like a limb, and she can do what she wants with it because it is in her bodily domain.

A fetus has the potential to become human, but not all fetii necessarily do. Some are aborted naturally, or miscarried because the mother's body cannot support it.

I see any fertilized egg as human. That is easily evidenced by who conceived the child in the first place... two human beings.

Species wise... if you aren't a human once, you aren't a human, ever. Same with any other species. Your age does not change your species. (Although that may not be the case with animals that undergo a metamorphosis, like Butterflies).

An egg comes from a human as well. How is it any less human than a fetus?

Because an egg cell is not a human. It's an egg cell. It's a HUMAN'S egg cell, true. But it isn't a HUMAN.

Well can you explain t my why it is not a human?
Cause' quite frankly I don't understand what you are saying.

An egg cell is not a human. A human is you or I. We all have a schema for human and a single, meiotic cell is not a human.

[princess_colex]

s u n e k o s u r i

I agree with colex's point of veiw on the debate.

Thanks. See? I'm right afterall.

But say why you agree with me.

[Denzorz]

s u n e k o s u r i

Well can you explain t my why it is not a human?
Cause' quite frankly I don't understand what you are saying.

It's not considered a human because an egg cell has identical DNA to the woman, whereas a fertilized egg doesn't, it has it's own set.

I think.
The possibility fo me being wrong is fairly high, since I'm about to fall asleep.

[_C r y s t a l_RB]

PhoenixDenz

s u n e k o s u r i

Well can you explain t my why it is not a human?
Cause' quite frankly I don't understand what you are saying.

It's not considered a human because an egg cell has identical DNA to the woman, whereas a fertilized egg doesn't, it has it's own set.

I think.
The possibility fo me being wrong is fairly high, since I'm about to fall asleep.

Does the number of chromosomes play a part?

[Denzorz]

Crystal E-B

PhoenixDenz

s u n e k o s u r i

Well can you explain t my why it is not a human?
Cause' quite frankly I don't understand what you are saying.

It's not considered a human because an egg cell has identical DNA to the woman, whereas a fertilized egg doesn't, it has it's own set.

I think.
The possibility fo me being wrong is fairly high, since I'm about to fall asleep.

Does the number of chromosomes play a part?

Hell if I know. Probably. An unfertilized egg only has half the chromosomes, right?

[DCVI]

PhoenixDenz

Crystal E-B

PhoenixDenz

s u n e k o s u r i

Well can you explain t my why it is not a human?
Cause' quite frankly I don't understand what you are saying.

It's not considered a human because an egg cell has identical DNA to the woman, whereas a fertilized egg doesn't, it has it's own set.

I think.
The possibility fo me being wrong is fairly high, since I'm about to fall asleep.

Does the number of chromosomes play a part?

Hell if I know. Probably. An unfertilized egg only has half the chromosomes, right?

Egg has 23. Sperm has 23.

Match made in heaven.

[s u n e k o s u r i]

kp is dcvi

An egg cell is not a human. A human is you or I. We all have a schema for human and a single, meiotic cell is not a human.

Thank's for explaining but i still agree with Colex.

[_C r y s t a l_RB]

PhoenixDenz

Crystal E-B

PhoenixDenz

s u n e k o s u r i

Well can you explain t my why it is not a human?
Cause' quite frankly I don't understand what you are saying.

It's not considered a human because an egg cell has identical DNA to the woman, whereas a fertilized egg doesn't, it has it's own set.

I think.
The possibility fo me being wrong is fairly high, since I'm about to fall asleep.

Does the number of chromosomes play a part?

Hell if I know. Probably. An unfertilized egg only has half the chromosomes, right?

That's what I'm thinking.