The Abortion Debate

[Deformography]

Spiral Out

Arsenoe

And side effects may occur with induced abortion, whether surgical or by pill. These include abdominal pain and cramping, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Abortion also carries the risk of significant complications such as bleeding, infection, and damage to organs. Serious complications occur in less than 1 out of 100 early abortions and in about 1 out of every 50 later abortions. Complications may include:
Heavy Bleeding
Infection
Sepsis
Damage to the Cervix
Scarring of the Uterine Lining
Death
Emotional and Psychological Impact
Eating disorders
Relationship problems
Guilt
Depression
Flashbacks of abortion
Suicidal thoughts
Sexual dysfunction
Alcohol and drug abuse
Spiritual Consequences

HEY HEY! ALL OF THESE THINGS HAPPEN WITH CHILDBIRTH TOOOOOO!

Quote:

Anesthesia – Complications from general anesthesia used during abortion surgery may result in convulsions, heart attack, and in extreme cases, death. It also increases the risk of other serious complications by two and a half times.

The use of an epidural is just as dangerous as general anesthesia - if not more so. And... I didn't know women were completely put under for abortions, I thought local anesthesia was used to numb the area.

I've heard that some will twilight ya. I wouldn't be surprised if more invasive procedures came with general anesthesia.

I would rather have the general than a needle in my spine, kthnxbai.

[Lord Setar]

Spiral Out

Quote:

Anesthesia – Complications from general anesthesia used during abortion surgery may result in convulsions, heart attack, and in extreme cases, death. It also increases the risk of other serious complications by two and a half times.

The use of an epidural is just as dangerous as general anesthesia - if not more so. And... I didn't know women were completely put under for abortions, I thought local anesthesia was used to numb the area.

She conveniently forgets how many other surgical procedures use general anesthesia...

...almost all of them, correct? I think anything that involves sawing into your body and setting bones or messing with organs requires a general anesthetic to be used.

[Denzorz]

Lord Setar

Spiral Out

Quote:

Anesthesia – Complications from general anesthesia used during abortion surgery may result in convulsions, heart attack, and in extreme cases, death. It also increases the risk of other serious complications by two and a half times.

The use of an epidural is just as dangerous as general anesthesia - if not more so. And... I didn't know women were completely put under for abortions, I thought local anesthesia was used to numb the area.

She conveniently forgets how many other surgical procedures use general anesthesia...

...almost all of them, correct? I think anything that involves sawing into your body and setting bones or messing with organs requires a general anesthetic to be used.

I'm going in for oral surgery in a couple weeks (as long as we dont' haev to change the appointment due to me gettin' sick agan) adn they're going to use a general on me, and all they're doing is exposing my eyeteeth.

*is soooo not looking forward to being put under, adn is demanding her father be in the room with her*

[Lord Setar]

PhoenixDenz

Lord Setar

Spiral Out

Quote:

Anesthesia – Complications from general anesthesia used during abortion surgery may result in convulsions, heart attack, and in extreme cases, death. It also increases the risk of other serious complications by two and a half times.

The use of an epidural is just as dangerous as general anesthesia - if not more so. And... I didn't know women were completely put under for abortions, I thought local anesthesia was used to numb the area.

She conveniently forgets how many other surgical procedures use general anesthesia...

...almost all of them, correct? I think anything that involves sawing into your body and setting bones or messing with organs requires a general anesthetic to be used.

I'm going in for oral surgery in a couple weeks (as long as we dont' haev to change the appointment due to me gettin' sick agan) adn they're going to use a general on me, and all they're doing is exposing my eyeteeth.

*is soooo not looking forward to being put under, adn is demanding her father be in the room with her*

And speaking of surgery, I wonder when next the fetus hand picture will be brought in. Every time that picture is used, I rummage around for the Snopes article on it.

[Denzorz]

Lord Setar

And speaking of surgery, I wonder when next the fetus hand picture will be brought in. Every time that picture is used, I rummage around for the Snopes article on it.

Aren't the majority of those 'aborted fetus' pictures miscarriages, or completely fake?

[Lord Setar]

PhoenixDenz

Lord Setar

And speaking of surgery, I wonder when next the fetus hand picture will be brought in. Every time that picture is used, I rummage around for the Snopes article on it.

Aren't the majority of those 'aborted fetus' pictures miscarriages, or completely fake?

I meant the misconstrued one, where the fetus' hand flopped out of the incision during surgery and the doctor replaced it, then the photographer went around saying the fetus was thanking the doctor or some s**t.

[Denzorz]

Lord Setar

PhoenixDenz

Lord Setar

And speaking of surgery, I wonder when next the fetus hand picture will be brought in. Every time that picture is used, I rummage around for the Snopes article on it.

Aren't the majority of those 'aborted fetus' pictures miscarriages, or completely fake?

I meant the misconstrued one, where the fetus' hand flopped out of the incision during surgery and the doctor replaced it, then the photographer went around saying the fetus was thanking the doctor or some s**t.

What the hell?

I've never even heard of that. That's freaking weird.

[Spiral Out]

I was put under when I got my wisdom teeth put out. It wasn't that bad, specially since they gave me laughing gas first.

It was WAY better than the epidural. IV in the arm is way better than having to lean forward and keep your back curved while someone suck a gigantic needle into my spinal column.

[ottery]

Lord Setar

PhoenixDenz

Lord Setar

And speaking of surgery, I wonder when next the fetus hand picture will be brought in. Every time that picture is used, I rummage around for the Snopes article on it.

Aren't the majority of those 'aborted fetus' pictures miscarriages, or completely fake?

I meant the misconstrued one, where the fetus' hand flopped out of the incision during surgery and the doctor replaced it, then the photographer went around saying the fetus was thanking the doctor or some s**t.

I've seen that picture. The hand just flopped out and the doctor tucked it back in. They say that the fetus grasped the doctor's hand.

[Denzorz]

Spiral Out

I was put under when I got my wisdom teeth put out. It wasn't that bad, specially since they gave me laughing gas first.

It was WAY better than the epidural. IV in the arm is way better than having to lean forward and keep your back curved while someone suck a gigantic needle into my spinal column.

Yeah, see, there's a reason I'm probably never going to give birth. Doc's told me that it's highly likely I'll have to have a c-section (my hips are too narrow, the birth canal wouldn't be wide enough for the baby) and I just do not want to be going through that much pain. Oh hellz no.

>. Plus also, I've got endo, and he said it's possible I'd get an ectopic pregnancy....
Can we say that Den is very careful with her birth contorl and requires a condom as well? 'Cause she is.

[Lord Setar]

PhoenixDenz

Lord Setar

PhoenixDenz

Lord Setar

And speaking of surgery, I wonder when next the fetus hand picture will be brought in. Every time that picture is used, I rummage around for the Snopes article on it.

Aren't the majority of those 'aborted fetus' pictures miscarriages, or completely fake?

I meant the misconstrued one, where the fetus' hand flopped out of the incision during surgery and the doctor replaced it, then the photographer went around saying the fetus was thanking the doctor or some s**t.

What the hell?

I've never even heard of that. That's freaking weird.

Found it.

[Lapinporokoira]

Spiral Out

I was put under when I got my wisdom teeth put out. It wasn't that bad, specially since they gave me laughing gas first.

It was WAY better than the epidural. IV in the arm is way better than having to lean forward and keep your back curved while someone suck a gigantic needle into my spinal column.

I am due to get my wisdom tooth removed. Have to wait for a hospital appointment. Did go to the dentists and had injection in the gum but it didn't do much but certainly hurt . Four shots before I called time and never got the tooth removed. Now I'm going to go under general as the gum jab was too much for me.

If I can't stand a local shot to my gum I sure as hell don't want to suffer through the 'joys' of giving birth.
Giving birth makes me think of Alien and that chestburster scene. I don't see the pleasure and joy in pregnancy I only see the horror and the enduring suffering that comes with it.

[Deformography]

Spiral Out

I was put under when I got my wisdom teeth put out. It wasn't that bad, specially since they gave me laughing gas first.

It was WAY better than the epidural. IV in the arm is way better than having to lean forward and keep your back curved while someone suck a gigantic needle into my spinal column.

When they do epidurals for other reasons, you just lay on a table. I think you're either on your stomach (I was) or fetal (larf!). But yeah, those spinal needles are scary!! And, y'know... it's just kinda scary having someone dig around in your spine with a needle.

[Kata Samoes]

lymelady

1. you argued that it isn't cruel because a fetus can't feel or experience anything (which is again, false. A fetus can experience things. Not at the same level as an adult or infant. An infant can't experience things on nearly the same scale as an adult. Should we say infants are worth less based on how much they can experience things? Some people argue that, and at least they're consistent). I followed your logic. If you'd like to keep going in circles, please do so, but I don't have time.

I'm not taking circles. I presented an arguement, you disagreed. I clarified, now I'm told I'm wrong. Circles? Hm.

If this is wrong, please prove it and back your claim.

lymelady

Also, I disagree with an organization declaring organic pain to not be considered pain, considering how important it is in scientific study, medical treatment, and survival.

I'm sorry. They have credit. You've given me your opinion and view. Which has more weight?

lymelady

I will commend you on your fine Wiki skills. It takes a lot of effort to type in "pain" in the searchbar after going to en.wikipedia.org, I'm sure.

Translation: "I didn't bother looking at your source, nor read it, so instead I will attempt a petty insult in return."

Notice: I didn't quote, nor reference, Wikipedia. I quoted, and cited, a source.

lymelady

2. No it doesn't. You haven't been able to prove to me that it's an objective fact. If you can, please, do. Otherwise, it's an opinion.

Please prove it's an opinion. I have explained it to you, and you say it's an opinion. If you insist I'm wrong, please prove it. I've done more work on this than you have, thus far.

lymelady

Unless I can start using my opinions, backed with arguments that you don't agree with, and calling them facts just because I say so, which seems to be the route you're taking.

I'm not. Strawman.

lymelady

You did not back it with how and why it's degrading. You backed it with how and why YOU FEEL it's degrading. I'm still waiting. Please, give me facts, not opinions.

Children is a medical term for those between 2 and 12. Fact or opinion?
Women forced to donate her uterus (an organ): Fact or opinion?
Women would have less rights than men due to the inability to fully protect her bodily domain, while men can: Fact or opinion?
The fetus would have more rights than any born person, due to being able to stay attached to a woman despite her consent: Fact or opinion?
Being a second-class citizen in society is a degradation, thus said action that caused such status is degrading: Fact or opinion?

You have not refuted my arguments. You fail.

lymelady

And as I said, no, you didn't, you used opinions.

And as I asked, how are they opinions?

lymelady

3. There are children involved in abortion in the sense that all fetuses are offspring. I said nothing of infanticide.

Fetii are required to be born to be offspring. They are developing. How are they offspring?

lymelady

Ah, I'm mistaken, you think women need to have abortion available in order to be something other than second class citizens to men and fetuses (thus, they aren't equal to men or fetuses without abortion being available. My mistake, I only included men), which is much less degrading, let me assure you.

I do not think so, I think taking away that right is degrading. How is it any "less" degrading even if this was true?

lymelady

I'm glad to know I can't be anything but a second class citizen if I don't have the legal option to kill my offspring, thanks for the vote of confidence. You're assuming a lot about who would have more rights, especially since you don't take into consideration current provisions in our laws that give children more "rights" than adults.

Protection due to societal norms =/= more rights. Children have less rights than adults. How do they have more rights? What assumptions?

You should stop attempting to make out to be insulting you.

lymelady

4. It's an ad hom? You said reflection argument when I wished you pleasant dreams. I had no idea that it's an ad hominem, especially since I wasn't addressing an argument or attacking your personality in any way shape or form. This is, again, quite interesting.

Try following your own conversation instead of strawman arguments.

Kata Samoes

lymelady

Kata Samoes

lymelady

I'm sorry if that offends you. Good day to you as well, and pleasant dreams.

Reflection argument.

You dream of reflection arguments? That's quite interesting.

Ad hom.