The Abortion Debate

[The Great Lina Inverse]

Wee_Little_Me

malikpossessed

I love how the young teenagers are pro-life and their answer to sex is "don't have sex."

Hey kids, just to let you know, that is the real world! People are going to have sex and the best way to keep from getting pregnant are contraceptives (those things we call condoms and birth control), and even those have a small fail rate, so people are going to get abortions when their contraceptive fails. And most women getting abortions did use a contraceptive.

Poor wittle teens and their horrible sex ed programs.

try telling bush that. the all seeing leader cut funding to sex programs didnt he. no more free condoms for you, kiddies!

No, he didn't. He refuses, however, to fun anything beyond "abstience-only" programs because of his religious standings. This doesn't mean that he would cut the funding.

Besides, it isn't up to just the schools to educate the children about sex education, the parents must do so as well.

[JadedLotus]

malikpossessed

I love how the young teenagers are pro-life and their answer to sex is "don't have sex."

Hey kids, just to let you know, that is the real world! People are going to have sex and the best way to keep from getting pregnant are contraceptives (those things we call condoms and birth control), and even those have a small fail rate, so people are going to get abortions when their contraceptive fails. And most women getting abortions did use a contraceptive.

Poor wittle teens and their horrible sex ed programs.

ooh, i have an idea! to make the idea opposing you seem less credible, make an extreme generalization and make it seem as though it's an idea that belongs to a group which is usually looked over.

rolleyes

not all teens have that answer, bucko.

as for me: i believe that abortion is murder. and here's why. from the moment of conception, when the sperm meets the egg, this new embryo has a unique dna stamp.

but a woman can abort a baby because it's her own body and she can do what she wants! - FALSE. it's the baby's body from that moment.

now, you say that if the embryo never attached to the wall of the uterus, then the woman isn't pregnant, and therefore it isn't murder. but you can never know if the embryo WOULD have attached itself, therefore in your possible prevention of pregnancy by your terms, it's just as though you murdered the baby anyhow.

when do you believe that the body comes to have a spirit, a soul, a sentient awareness, anything? [i'm not religious, to clear that up, don't attack my terms...] you can say all you want that the child has no clue what's going on, but there is no way to prove that the child, underdeveloped as its brain is at the time, doesn't have a consciousness of what's happening to it on some level or another...

regardless of this, however, whether it is conscious of activity or not during this stage, one fact remains. by preventing possible life, you are performing an act or murder.

to the girls who were raped, become pregnant by accident, whatever, and think they must abort because otherwise the child *might* have an unfortunate and miserable life. that's not your choice to make. what if someone had aborted you? there's always adoption. and don't feed me bullshit about how many children are put up for adoptions, because i know scored of couples constantly looking for a child to call their own. there is always hope.

"i've noticed that everybody who is for abortion has already been born" - ronald reagan.

"the cemetery of the victims of human cruelty in our century is extended to include yet another vast century, that of the unborn" - the late pope john paul II.


both quotations taken from random house webster's quotionary collection.

[DCVI]

malikpossessed

I love how some of the young teenagers are pro-life and their answer to sex is "don't have sex."

Hey kids, just to let you know, that is the real world! People are going to have sex and the best way to keep from getting pregnant are contraceptives (those things we call condoms and birth control), and even those have a small fail rate, so people are going to get abortions when their contraceptive fails. And most women getting abortions did use a contraceptive.

Poor wittle teens and their horrible sex ed programs.

Fixed your original statement.

Don't generalize.

[JadedLotus]

Reinna Astarel

Didn't you hear about that rule against a cure for, cervical cancer, I believe it was.

The article I read stated quotes from people who supported banning it because, by some stretch of the imagination, allowing it would make more people have sex, and by keeping it unavailible, more people would refrain from sex, because of the possibility of having cancer.

How incredibly retarded is that?

very, actually. link to the article? [not that i don't trust you, i just wanna see for myself]. that's ridiculous.

[rweghrheh]

Reinna Astarel

Didn't you hear about that rule against a cure for, cervical cancer, I believe it was.

The article I read stated quotes from people who supported banning it because, by some stretch of the imagination, allowing it would make more people have sex, and by keeping it unavailible, more people would refrain from sex, because of the possibility of having cancer.

How incredibly retarded is that?

Sex and cancer? That's a new one. Do you have the link? I'm curious about it now. I need a laugh.

[Wee_Little_Me]

The Great Lina Inverse

Wee_Little_Me

malikpossessed

I love how the young teenagers are pro-life and their answer to sex is "don't have sex."

Hey kids, just to let you know, that is the real world! People are going to have sex and the best way to keep from getting pregnant are contraceptives (those things we call condoms and birth control), and even those have a small fail rate, so people are going to get abortions when their contraceptive fails. And most women getting abortions did use a contraceptive.

Poor wittle teens and their horrible sex ed programs.

try telling bush that. the all seeing leader cut funding to sex programs didnt he. no more free condoms for you, kiddies!

No, he didn't. He refuses, however, to fun anything beyond "abstience-only" programs because of his religious standings. This doesn't mean that he would cut the funding.

Besides, it isn't up to just the schools to educate the children about sex education, the parents must do so as well.

exactly, free condoms is the exact oposite of 'abasenence only' ....unless the instructions on the package are Step 1) unwrap baloon. Step 2) blow up. Step 3) tie not at end.

[The Great Lina Inverse]

JadedLotus

ooh, i have an idea! to make the idea opposing you seem less credible, make an extreme generalization and make it seem as though it's an idea that belongs to a group which is usually looked over.

rolleyes

not all teens have that answer, bucko.

as for me: i believe that abortion is murder. and here's why. from the moment of conception, when the sperm meets the egg, this new embryo has a unique dna stamp.

Good thing we don't go by your definition of murder. Because any dictionary will tell you that murder is "the unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice."

Seeing that a fetus is not a person in the eyes of the law and there is no premeditation malice felts from the mother to the fetus, AND that abortion is legal, it is not murder.

JadedLotus

but a woman can abort a baby because it's her own body and she can do what she wants! - FALSE. it's the baby's body from that moment.

At what point? That fetus at 12 weeks cannot live outside my womb. It is a PART of me and only becomes a second entity when it is able to sustain itself outside my body. NOT before.

JadedLotus

now, you say that if the embryo never attached to the wall of the uterus, then the woman isn't pregnant, and therefore it isn't murder. but you can never know if the embryo WOULD have attached itself, therefore in your possible prevention of pregnancy by your terms, it's just as though you murdered the baby anyhow.

when do you believe that the body comes to have a spirit, a soul, a sentient awareness, anything? [i'm not religious, to clear that up, don't attack my terms...] you can say all you want that the child has no clue what's going on, but there is no way to prove that the child, underdeveloped as its brain is at the time, doesn't have a consciousness of what's happening to it on some level or another...

What is a sou? Show it to me. And while you're at it, show me a spirit. Can't? Then it doesn't exist. Its just something that the Christian faction uses to guilt-trip women into keeping an unwanted pregnancy. Besides, why does your religion get to tell what women who don't believe in your goed what to do?

Oh, that's right. It doesn't. Its your god, your rules, your hell, you go burn in it.

JadedLotus

regardless of this, however, whether it is conscious of activity or not during this stage, one fact remains. by preventing possible life, you are performing an act or murder.

to the girls who were raped, become pregnant by accident, whatever, and think they must abort because otherwise the child *might* have an unfortunate and miserable life. that's not your choice to make. what if someone had aborted you? there's always adoption. and don't feed me bullshit about how many children are put up for adoptions, because i know scored of couples constantly looking for a child to call their own. there is always hope.

"i've noticed that everybody who is for abortion has already been born" - ronald reagan.

"the cemetery of the victims of human cruelty in our century is extended to include yet another vast century, that of the unborn" - the late pope john paul II.

both quotations taken from random house webster's quotionary collection.

Your quotes are ridiculious and are only causing people to get emotionally flustered. Please use something besides religion and propaganda to boost your ideas. Because both gentlemen want to take away women's rights of their body and thus return them to slavery.

[Yi Min]

sachiko_sohma

Reinna Astarel

Didn't you hear about that rule against a cure for, cervical cancer, I believe it was.

The article I read stated quotes from people who supported banning it because, by some stretch of the imagination, allowing it would make more people have sex, and by keeping it unavailible, more people would refrain from sex, because of the possibility of having cancer.

How incredibly retarded is that?

Sex and cancer? That's a new one. Do you have the link? I'm curious about it now. I need a laugh.

Facts About HPV

HPV is what causes cervical cancer.

[Reinna Astarel]

JadedLotus

as for me: i believe that abortion is murder. and here's why. from the moment of conception, when the sperm meets the egg, this new embryo has a unique dna stamp.

but a woman can abort a baby because it's her own body and she can do what she wants! - FALSE. it's the baby's body from that moment.

Did you not read the first page, or what. Abortion cannot possibly be murder because it is not illegal. END. Murder = Illegal killing. Eating celery is not murder, killing rabbits is not murder, no matter how much PETA might wish it were. They are not illegal, and neither is abortion. Hence, abortion is not murder.

So if it's the baby's body, it is a foreign person inside her uterus, and as such, she can have it taken out, because the fetus has no rights over her body, and as such, can't use it as living space.

So yeah, she can abort the baby because it's her own uterus and her own nutrients and she can do what she wants with them- which includes denying them to a fetus.

JadedLotus

now, you say that if the embryo never attached to the wall of the uterus, then the woman isn't pregnant, and therefore it isn't murder. but you can never know if the embryo WOULD have attached itself, therefore in your possible prevention of pregnancy by your terms, it's just as though you murdered the baby anyhow.

Again, not murder. *facedesk*

Now, you say if the egg never meets sperm, then the person isn't concieved, and hence, masturbation and menstruation isn't murder. But YOU can never know if the egg might have met with the sperm and produced little Billy Bob Joe. Stop murdering little children by menstruationg, females!

JadedLotus

when do you believe that the body comes to have a spirit, a soul, a sentient awareness, anything? [i'm not religious, to clear that up, don't attack my terms...] you can say all you want that the child has no clue what's going on, but there is no way to prove that the child, underdeveloped as its brain is at the time, doesn't have a consciousness of what's happening to it on some level or another...

Sentient awareness comes with a working brain, and an ability for perceptions. Neither of which are availible to a fetus in the first semester. Many do not believe in souls or spirits.

And if you dont' have a brain, chances are you don't have a conscious either. Just a guess. neutral

And also, animals can be considered sentient and most can think and have brains, and awareness. But cows are hardly protected by law from being killed.

JadedLotus

regardless of this, however, whether it is conscious of activity or not during this stage, one fact remains. by preventing possible life, you are performing an act or murder.

Again, wrong.

My period last week? Murder. *GASP* Prevention of possible life!

JadedLotus

to the girls who were raped, become pregnant by accident, whatever, and think they must abort because otherwise the child *might* have an unfortunate and miserable life. that's not your choice to make. what if someone had aborted you? there's always adoption. and don't feed me bullshit about how many children are put up for adoptions, because i know scored of couples constantly looking for a child to call their own. there is always hope.

Don't feed me bullshit about how women don't have the choice to decide that they don't want to provide living space to something else and that YOU can decide that.

JadedLotus

"i've noticed that everybody who is for abortion has already been born" - ronald reagan.

Just as I've noticed everyone dictating the rights of animals is human.


Hrmmmmm. rolleyes

[The Great Lina Inverse]

Reinna Astarel

JadedLotus

"i've noticed that everybody who is for abortion has already been born" - ronald reagan.

Just as I've noticed everyone dictating the rights of animals is human.


Hrmmmmm. rolleyes

Exactly! I'm alive because *gasp* my momma CHOSE to give birth, she didn't have to.

Besides, why the hell would somebody want to use Regan, knowing what he attepted to do to women during his era?

[Reinna Astarel]

sachiko_sohma

Reinna Astarel

Didn't you hear about that rule against a cure for, cervical cancer, I believe it was.

The article I read stated quotes from people who supported banning it because, by some stretch of the imagination, allowing it would make more people have sex, and by keeping it unavailible, more people would refrain from sex, because of the possibility of having cancer.

How incredibly retarded is that?

Sex and cancer? That's a new one. Do you have the link? I'm curious about it now. I need a laugh.

I don't have the link because it was a thread on Gaia, and just something I perused for the heck of it, that I happened to remember. xp

Sorry.

[JadedLotus]

The Great Lina Inverse

JadedLotus

ooh, i have an idea! to make the idea opposing you seem less credible, make an extreme generalization and make it seem as though it's an idea that belongs to a group which is usually looked over.

rolleyes

not all teens have that answer, bucko.

as for me: i believe that abortion is murder. and here's why. from the moment of conception, when the sperm meets the egg, this new embryo has a unique dna stamp.

Good thing we don't go by your definition of murder. Because any dictionary will tell you that murder is "the unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice."

Seeing that a fetus is not a person in the eyes of the law and there is no premeditation malice felts from the mother to the fetus, AND that abortion is legal, it is not murder.

the point of this debate: that some believe abortion should not be legal. therefore, you can not use that as a point in your argument.

in the widely-publicized killed of laci peterson, her husband scott was charged not only for the murder of his wife but also his unborn son. the law twists when and when not to consider an unborn fetus a person.

the definition says "especially" with malice. not only. so it would still be murder.

The Great Line Inverse

JadedLotus

but a woman can abort a baby because it's her own body and she can do what she wants! - FALSE. it's the baby's body from that moment.

At what point? That fetus at 12 weeks cannot live outside my womb. It is a PART of me and only becomes a second entity when it is able to sustain itself outside my body. NOT before.

at what point? from the very beginning. you most likely couldn't survive if you were dumped on a deserted island by the civilization you depend on. doesn't give the civilization a right to do so just because they want to.

The Great Lina Inverse

JadedLotus

now, you say that if the embryo never attached to the wall of the uterus, then the woman isn't pregnant, and therefore it isn't murder. but you can never know if the embryo WOULD have attached itself, therefore in your possible prevention of pregnancy by your terms, it's just as though you murdered the baby anyhow.

when do you believe that the body comes to have a spirit, a soul, a sentient awareness, anything? [i'm not religious, to clear that up, don't attack my terms...] you can say all you want that the child has no clue what's going on, but there is no way to prove that the child, underdeveloped as its brain is at the time, doesn't have a consciousness of what's happening to it on some level or another...

What is a sou? Show it to me. And while you're at it, show me a spirit. Can't? Then it doesn't exist. Its just something that the Christian faction uses to guilt-trip women into keeping an unwanted pregnancy. Besides, why does your religion get to tell what women who don't believe in your goed what to do?

Oh, that's right. It doesn't. Its your god, your rules, your hell, you go burn in it.

maybe you can't read. not. my. god. do you consider yourself intelligent? having a part of you other than the shell you walk around in? is their a difference between your level of consciousness and that one someone in a coma? there is a part of you other than the physical body. i know few who would argue against this. my argument has nothing to do with religion. i am agnostic. if you had read what i written you would have noticed that. oops, there goes that part of your scathing rebuttal.

my point? it was that unborn CHILDREN [yes, that's right, children, not fetuses] could possibly, and quite probably, possess this intelligence, this consciousness, that makes them human before they are even born. by argument, you can't prove that anyone in a coma is actually alive, and they should all be murdered as well; that is, if we feel like it.

The Great Lina Inverse

JadedLotus

regardless of this, however, whether it is conscious of activity or not during this stage, one fact remains. by preventing possible life, you are performing an act or murder.

to the girls who were raped, become pregnant by accident, whatever, and think they must abort because otherwise the child *might* have an unfortunate and miserable life. that's not your choice to make. what if someone had aborted you? there's always adoption. and don't feed me bullshit about how many children are put up for adoptions, because i know scored of couples constantly looking for a child to call their own. there is always hope.

"i've noticed that everybody who is for abortion has already been born" - ronald reagan.

"the cemetery of the victims of human cruelty in our century is extended to include yet another vast century, that of the unborn" - the late pope john paul II.

both quotations taken from random house webster's quotionary collection.

Your quotes are ridiculious and are only causing people to get emotionally flustered. Please use something besides religion and propaganda to boost your ideas. Because both gentlemen want to take away women's rights of their body and thus return them to slavery.

i didn't use religion once, as you would have known if you had paid attenton. and if you had paid attention, you also would have known this fact: it's not their own bodies that women are playing a game with, but the bodies of another. you're not clipping off your toenails. you're preventing life.

[Yi Min]

Reinna Astarel

sachiko_sohma

Reinna Astarel

Didn't you hear about that rule against a cure for, cervical cancer, I believe it was.

The article I read stated quotes from people who supported banning it because, by some stretch of the imagination, allowing it would make more people have sex, and by keeping it unavailible, more people would refrain from sex, because of the possibility of having cancer.

How incredibly retarded is that?

Sex and cancer? That's a new one. Do you have the link? I'm curious about it now. I need a laugh.

I don't have the link because it was a thread on Gaia, and just something I perused for the heck of it, that I happened to remember. xp

Sorry.

I posted a link above. ^_^ But I couldn't find the article about those who want to with hold the treatments because "Omg girls will have more sex!"
</offtopicness>

[The Great Lina Inverse]

JadedLotus

i didn't use religion once, as you would have known if you had paid attenton. and if you had paid attention, you also would have known this fact: it's not their own bodies that women are playing a game with, but the bodies of another. you're not clipping off your toenails. you're preventing life.

But, m'dear, religion does not belong in any debate because not everybody believes the same thing. Its a moot point and shows a lack of belief beyond something spoon-fed.

It is most defineatly my body that I am dealing with. My body, my uterus, my fetus. And if I dont' want the fetus, I will abort it. It is alive, yet. It is human, yes. I don't care. I refuse to bring in an unwanted life into this world. I refuse to give it up to adoption because I STILL must remain pregnant when I don't want to be and I refuse to add to a heavily racist system. I am in control of my body and everything that resides in it. I will not carry an unwanted pregnancy because abortion gives you the "willies".

[JadedLotus]

The Great Lina Inverse

JadedLotus

i didn't use religion once, as you would have known if you had paid attenton. and if you had paid attention, you also would have known this fact: it's not their own bodies that women are playing a game with, but the bodies of another. you're not clipping off your toenails. you're preventing life.

But, m'dear, religion does not belong in any debate because not everybody believes the same thing. Its a moot point and shows a lack of belief beyond something spoon-fed.

It is most defineatly my body that I am dealing with. My body, my uterus, my fetus. And if I dont' want the fetus, I will abort it. It is alive, yet. It is human, yes. I don't care. I refuse to bring in an unwanted life into this world. I refuse to give it up to adoption because I STILL must remain pregnant when I don't want to be and I refuse to add to a heavily racist system. I am in control of my body and everything that resides in it. I will not carry an unwanted pregnancy because abortion gives you the "willies".

you refuse to acknowledge the fact that religion was not a part of my argument. however, you are getting a bit ridiculous. abortion gives me the willies? idiot. i never said such a thing, nor implied it. i stated why i believed it was wrong.

"It is alive, yes. It is human, yes. I don't care."

and after such a statement, you're still going to argue with me? you're not denying everything i've said. you're acknowledging it and displaying your selfishness.