The Abortion Debate

[]Kaiser[]

TPauSilver

Master Kaiser

Obviously, since this is brand new to the ED and hopefully will be a the central debate on abortion, I guess I should post my stance. Though, many of you know what that is already, I'll post anyway for anyone who doesn't know me.

I am pro-life personally, pro-choice politically, but fights for the pro-life side anyway. The only reason I am pro-choice politically is because I won't condemn nor insult one who has or will get an abortion, although it goes against my beliefs. They can do as they please, and I will wish them the best, but not support the decision in the least.

I am pro-life because I believe in the sanctity of life, and believe that the fetus is human being and is a person. Choice should not take ride over life, unless the choice makers life is in grave danger due to the other life (i.e. choice maker: mother ; life: fetus)

I am mostly supporting better funding towards a possible artifical womb, better sexual education programs, and better programs for teenage mothers, adoption agencies, etc. I wish to make pregnancy as safe as can be and that not only abortions are outlawed, they are not needed at all.

Abortion will always be needed by some, which is why it should never be outlawed, though I think we can all agree that a situation where the fewest possible abortions occur is best for everyone.

Of course, but in my ideological world, it should not be needed. Though there will always be some who cannot support a child within them and need an abortion. The life threatening ones of course, I mean we don't want both to die now do we?

[kitsune05]

It depends. Like for example, you have a religion that says life is sacred... Of course you wouldn't allow abortion, you would consider it murder. It's true because when the sperm and egg cell combines and a DNA is created they believed that God has already a plan. It's true because having a DNA, everything about you is already there and a life is formed already.

[pidgezero_one]

ultrayiper02

TPauSilver

ultrayiper02

I dont think abortion should be made compleatly illegal in case of medical conditions

But you think it should be illegal in other cases. So if I'm 25 with no job and my boyfriend's just left me so I have no roof over my head and I hate everything about him, you think that's a good time for me to be having his baby?

of course not but you shouldn't have had sex under those conditions int the first place

See, I've got a problem with this view. The way "should not have had sex" is worded, is in a tense I am not sure of the name of (but in French it's called "plus-que-parfait" sweatdrop ), and deals with what HAS happened as opposed to what IS happening.
In this case, wording it this way does absolutely nothing but point fingers and make accusations and make it out to be somebody's "fault", and does nothing in terms of a solution, it just goes to say that the parties involved should be ashamed of themselves for consenting to sex, not unlike the people who believe that every woman MUST feel shame in getting an abortion. What good is that going to do? The only possible "solution" anyone can get out of this is using pregnancy and parenthood as a punishment, which is an idea that absolutely sickens me to no end.

[Phantasy Tokoro]

kitsune05

It depends. Like for example, you have a religion that says life is sacred... Of course you wouldn't allow abortion, you would consider it murder. It's true because when the sperm and egg cell combines and a DNA is created they believed that God has already a plan. It's true because having a DNA, everything about you is already there and a life is formed already.

Thing is, God's plan is a tricky thing. YOu cannot deem to know God's plan. What if God's plan was for the fetus to die in an abortion?

[kitsune05]

pidgezero_one

ultrayiper02

TPauSilver

ultrayiper02

I dont think abortion should be made compleatly illegal in case of medical conditions

But you think it should be illegal in other cases. So if I'm 25 with no job and my boyfriend's just left me so I have no roof over my head and I hate everything about him, you think that's a good time for me to be having his baby?

of course not but you shouldn't have had sex under those conditions int the first place

See, I've got a problem with this view. The way "should not have had sex" is worded, is in a tense I am not sure of the name of (but in French it's called "plus-que-parfait" sweatdrop ), and deals with what HAS happened as opposed to what IS happening.
In this case, wording it this way does absolutely nothing but point fingers and make accusations and make it out to be somebody's "fault", and does nothing in terms of a solution, it just goes to say that the parties involved should be ashamed of themselves for consenting to sex, not unlike the people who believe that every woman MUST feel shame in getting an abortion. What good is that going to do? The only possible "solution" anyone can get out of this is using pregnancy and parenthood as a punishment, which is an idea that absolutely sickens me to no end.

Anyway, it's not always the woman's fault for getting pregnant. Like for example, she's raped. And a person i know got abortion because it was needed for her job.

[pidgezero_one]

I suppose I'll state my side of it too, even though Ive been debating for a while. >_>;

I have no personal view on abortion. I am not at this point able to decide how I would deal with an unwanted pregnancy, nor will I until it actually happens to me.

Politically, I am pro-choice. I do not believe it is my place to decide what a woman faced with the decision should do, nor is it the decision of anybody else but her. I am in support of free will to the point where it does not cause harm to other members of society (members of society being defined as "persons" following the explanations on the front page of the thread).
I will support any decision involving a pregnancy that she decides to make, so long as she is the one making it.
I will support pro-choice women who choose to carry out the pregnancy, whether or not she plans on keeping the product.
I will support pro-choice women who choose to abort.
I will support pro-life women who choose to carry out the pregnancy, in the same way I will support the pro-choice women.
I will even support the decision of a pro-life woman to abort, even if I think it may be hypocritical depending on the circumstances: I believe it is not my place to pass judgment on her.
I do NOT believe that sex is solely reproduction. I also feel that unwanted pregnancy is like any other situation where someone does anything while knowing the risks: they should be able to have a way out. I'm a supporter of the here and the now over the potentially here and the later, when it comes down to the black-and-white of whether she aborts or not. I would not encourage or discourage either solution onto anybody who does not want it.

[Goddess Hekate]

pidgezero_one

ultrayiper02

TPauSilver

ultrayiper02

I dont think abortion should be made compleatly illegal in case of medical conditions

But you think it should be illegal in other cases. So if I'm 25 with no job and my boyfriend's just left me so I have no roof over my head and I hate everything about him, you think that's a good time for me to be having his baby?

of course not but you shouldn't have had sex under those conditions int the first place

See, I've got a problem with this view. The way "should not have had sex" is worded, is in a tense I am not sure of the name of (but in French it's called "plus-que-parfait" sweatdrop ), and deals with what HAS happened as opposed to what IS happening.

In latin it's called pluskvamperfektum which means something like before past tense, and deals with just that something that has already happened, and then it's too late to say anything.

Quote:

In this case, wording it this way does absolutely nothing but point fingers and make accusations and make it out to be somebody's "fault", and does nothing in terms of a solution, it just goes to say that the parties involved should be ashamed of themselves for consenting to sex, not unlike the people who believe that every woman MUST feel shame in getting an abortion. What good is that going to do? The only possible "solution" anyone can get out of this is using pregnancy and parenthood as a punishment, which is an idea that absolutely sickens me to no end.

I Agree fully, there is no fault in sex, unless someone stuffs a fetus up a womans v****a no fault can be given... And last I checked we didn't stuff fetii up anywhere.

[pidgezero_one]

Goddess Hekate

In latin it's called pluskvamperfektum which means something like before past tense, and deals with just that something that has already happened, and then it's too late to say anything.

Yeah, that's exactly it. mrgreen

Goddess Hekate

I Agree fully, there is no fault in sex, unless someone stuffs a fetus up a womans v****a no fault can be given... And last I checked we didn't stuff fetii up anywhere.

gonk That made me cringe.

[ka tana-bozu]

I am pro-choice because I should choose if something is going to be suckling on the insides of my womb for the next 9 months.

I am against illegalizing abortion because no one has the right to choose what's best but yourself.

I am against a man's right to choose if their fetus stays in a women's womb because it's not their womb, they have no clue how it feels and if they want the damn baby then just jar the fetus and throw it at him.


No one will change my mind no matter how many religious quotes, moral prosecutions or Holocaust analogies are thrown at me.

If abortion were illegalized and I was raped and didn't want the fetus I'd go searching for a close hanger. stare

[Goddess Hekate]

pidgezero_one

Goddess Hekate

In latin it's called pluskvamperfektum which means something like before past tense, and deals with just that something that has already happened, and then it's too late to say anything.

Yeah, that's exactly it. mrgreen

Goddess Hekate

I Agree fully, there is no fault in sex, unless someone stuffs a fetus up a womans v****a no fault can be given... And last I checked we didn't stuff fetii up anywhere.

gonk That made me cringe.

Yeah... xp but there are no such buttons as "Conception occuring; Abort? Continue? Deactivate?" or "Ovulating; Halt? Flush? Continue?"

[My credit card number is]

Langlen

Thing is, God's plan is a tricky thing. YOu cannot deem to know God's plan. What if God's plan was for the fetus to die in an abortion?

I'm not really concerned with "God's plan" to begin with, whether it's for or against me. If it contradicts my personal views then perhaps in my view God is evil.

[pidgezero_one]

Goddess Hekate

Yeah... xp but there are no such buttons as "Conception occuring; Abort? Continue? Deactivate?" or "Ovulating; Halt? Flush? Continue?"

I once made a joke thread in GD about that, except it was dealing with computers prompting you to "abort process". Some of the responses were really funny. xd "Well of course I'd abort! It's an inconvenience to both me and my computer!" "No, I wouldn't abort, there's a chance the program could run!! crying "

[DarkFire168]

ChupaChub

DarkFire168

ChupaChub

1) Well, I don't like killing. But most wemon would be very un happy and angry if they had some sicko's child in them. What if the person was on drugs. Then they might have a crack baby. Wouch would do the baby lots of harm. And most likely, the parents would not want the baby anyways, then it would go to a foster home or get addopted. Which is good in a way.

2 and 3) thanks for clearing those up for me. Especially number three. 3nodding

1) How do you think women would feel if they had an unwanted fetus in them anyway? To quote my girlfriend "If I'm forced to keep a fetus in me against my will, it's the equivalent of rape in my view." And besides, adoption doesn't solve unwanted pregnancy, only unwanted parenting.

2 and 3) No probs. That's what this thread is for.

1) It might fell like rape to them. If somebody does not want to go though the pain of carring a child or having it, I don't think making them do it is the answer. And yeah, adoption does not solve unwanted pregnancys, but if the woman cannot get an abortion, and does not want the child, where will it go?

Wait, so are you pro-choice or pro-life? Because what you said sounds very pro-choice but previously you seemed pro-life.

[Yi Min]

I am pro-choice. Though, I would only personally abort if it were life threatening such as a tubal pregancy.

It is not my place to tell other women what they can and cannot do. I do not know their physical, emotional or life situations. Who am I to tell them they must stay pregnant?

I believe abortion should stay legal for many reasons. If we illegalized abortion; what would happen to the women with tubal pregnancies? What about the rape victims (though few)? What about the women who already have serious physical problems or emotional problems? Birth control fails. Condoms break. It is not their faults.

[rweghrheh]

TPauSilver

Master Kaiser

Obviously, since this is brand new to the ED and hopefully will be a the central debate on abortion, I guess I should post my stance. Though, many of you know what that is already, I'll post anyway for anyone who doesn't know me.

I am pro-life personally, pro-choice politically, but fights for the pro-life side anyway. The only reason I am pro-choice politically is because I won't condemn nor insult one who has or will get an abortion, although it goes against my beliefs. They can do as they please, and I will wish them the best, but not support the decision in the least.

I am pro-life because I believe in the sanctity of life, and believe that the fetus is human being and is a person. Choice should not take ride over life, unless the choice makers life is in grave danger due to the other life (i.e. choice maker: mother ; life: fetus)

I am mostly supporting better funding towards a possible artifical womb, better sexual education programs, and better programs for teenage mothers, adoption agencies, etc. I wish to make pregnancy as safe as can be and that not only abortions are outlawed, they are not needed at all.

Abortion will always be needed by some, which is why it should never be outlawed, though I think we can all agree that a situation where the fewest possible abortions occur is best for everyone.

But the need could be lessed if we educate more people how to use things probly and let them know their a programs that can help unwed or poor mothers. Fix up adoption so more wouldn't fine it evil and willing to put them up for adoption and not abort.

Artifical wombs would be great but who knows that would ever happen. It could possible fail and the fetus can still die.