The Abortion Debate

[DarkFire168]

earthss_darkness

The ONLY excusses are if a girl got raped or if the chick's about to die! that's it!

1) Why is a fetus that is not wanted that was concieved by rape biologically different than one that was concieved during consentual sex?
2) Prove that you're right.

[rawrness1234]

DarkFire168

ChupaChub

I do not like abortion. In my point of view, its murder. And its against peoples rights. But supreme court says that a fetus is not born yet and does not have any rights at all. But they should, for they are still human beings and are living things. Even if they are not yet born. But I think abortion is alright under certain areas. Like if a woman is raped or if giving birth to the baby will kill her. Yes, I believe that woman have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies, but if you don't want the baby, don't have un-protected sex in the first place. And aborton is paied by tax payes, I think that if a woman wants an abortion other then rape or endangering her life, she should pay for it herself. I am not sure how much abortions will cost though...

1) Why is a rape fetus biologically worth less than a nondesired fetus created during consentual sex?
2) Most abortions are performed on women who used protection.
3) Taxes DO NOT pay for abortions. Where do people keep hearing that? Because it's a complete and utter fabrication.

I'm not saying that they are worth less. For one, I could not stand killing the fetus, even if I was raped. And if the abortions are mostly done on wemon that use protecton, ues 2 condoms. And I heard that abortions are paied for at school when our teacher had my class mates and I discuss this issue.

[DarkFire168]

ChupaChub

I'm not saying that they are worth less. For one, I could not stand killing the fetus, even if I was raped. And if the abortions are mostly done on wemon that use protecton, ues 2 condoms. And I heard that abortions are paied for at school when our teacher had my class mates and I discuss this issue.

1) Then why can you abort a rape fetus but not another one? If you were really pro-life there would be no condition about rape on there.

2) 2 condoms LOWERS the effectivness. This is why the abstinance only education stance of our country is idiotic.

3) Then you were lied to by them, because that isn't true. Women pay for their own abortions, and rarely their medical insurance pays for it. Unless your Canadian, in which case, meh, pitfalls of a socialized health care system.

[rawrness1234]

DarkFire168

ChupaChub

I'm not saying that they are worth less. For one, I could not stand killing the fetus, even if I was raped. And if the abortions are mostly done on wemon that use protecton, ues 2 condoms. And I heard that abortions are paied for at school when our teacher had my class mates and I discuss this issue.

1) Then why can you abort a rape fetus but not another one? If you were really pro-life there would be no condition about rape on there.

2) 2 condoms LOWERS the effectivness. This is why the abstinance only education stance of our country is idiotic.

3) Then you were lied to by them, because that isn't true. Women pay for their own abortions, and rarely their medical insurance pays for it. Unless your Canadian, in which case, meh, pitfalls of a socialized health care system.

1) Well, I don't like killing. But most wemon would be very un happy and angry if they had some sicko's child in them. What if the person was on drugs. Then they might have a crack baby. Wouch would do the baby lots of harm. And most likely, the parents would not want the baby anyways, then it would go to a foster home or get addopted. Which is good in a way.

2 and 3) thanks for clearing those up for me. Especially number three. 3nodding

[DarkFire168]

ChupaChub

1) Well, I don't like killing. But most wemon would be very un happy and angry if they had some sicko's child in them. What if the person was on drugs. Then they might have a crack baby. Wouch would do the baby lots of harm. And most likely, the parents would not want the baby anyways, then it would go to a foster home or get addopted. Which is good in a way.

2 and 3) thanks for clearing those up for me. Especially number three. 3nodding

1) How do you think women would feel if they had an unwanted fetus in them anyway? To quote my girlfriend "If I'm forced to keep a fetus in me against my will, it's the equivalent of rape in my view." And besides, adoption doesn't solve unwanted pregnancy, only unwanted parenting.

2 and 3) No probs. That's what this thread is for.

[MipsyKitten]

ChupaChub

And if the abortions are mostly done on wemon that use protecton, ues 2 condoms.

I know you ahve been corrected on the issue, but endulge me: Where on Earth did you eahr that using two condoms would help against pregnancy?

Logic: Most condoms are made from rubber. What happens when you rub rubber together? Do it now. Take two erasers and rub them together, then tough the part where they touched. Come back and tell me what you've discovered and tell me why I'm asking this question.

I'm not insulting you, I'm seriously curious as to what your friends/school is teaching you.

[rawrness1234]

DarkFire168

ChupaChub

1) Well, I don't like killing. But most wemon would be very un happy and angry if they had some sicko's child in them. What if the person was on drugs. Then they might have a crack baby. Wouch would do the baby lots of harm. And most likely, the parents would not want the baby anyways, then it would go to a foster home or get addopted. Which is good in a way.

2 and 3) thanks for clearing those up for me. Especially number three. 3nodding

1) How do you think women would feel if they had an unwanted fetus in them anyway? To quote my girlfriend "If I'm forced to keep a fetus in me against my will, it's the equivalent of rape in my view." And besides, adoption doesn't solve unwanted pregnancy, only unwanted parenting.

2 and 3) No probs. That's what this thread is for.

1) It might fell like rape to them. If somebody does not want to go though the pain of carring a child or having it, I don't think making them do it is the answer. And yeah, adoption does not solve unwanted pregnancys, but if the woman cannot get an abortion, and does not want the child, where will it go?

[rawrness1234]

MipsyKitten

ChupaChub

And if the abortions are mostly done on wemon that use protecton, ues 2 condoms.

I know you ahve been corrected on the issue, but endulge me: Where on Earth did you eahr that using two condoms would help against pregnancy?

Logic: Most condoms are made from rubber. What happens when you rub rubber together? Do it now. Take two erasers and rub them together, then tough the part where they touched. Come back and tell me what youd discovered and tell me why I'm asking this question.

I'm not insulting you, I'm seriously curious as to what your friends/school is teaching you.

Thats what my teachers have been telling the kids at our school. That using to condoms will even more lessing your chances of getting pregnate. And I'm not taking it as an insult. I just have been mis-tought. XP

[MipsyKitten]

ChupaChub

DarkFire168

ChupaChub

1) Well, I don't like killing. But most wemon would be very un happy and angry if they had some sicko's child in them. What if the person was on drugs. Then they might have a crack baby. Wouch would do the baby lots of harm. And most likely, the parents would not want the baby anyways, then it would go to a foster home or get addopted. Which is good in a way.

2 and 3) thanks for clearing those up for me. Especially number three. 3nodding

1) How do you think women would feel if they had an unwanted fetus in them anyway? To quote my girlfriend "If I'm forced to keep a fetus in me against my will, it's the equivalent of rape in my view." And besides, adoption doesn't solve unwanted pregnancy, only unwanted parenting.

2 and 3) No probs. That's what this thread is for.

1) It might fell like rape to them. If somebody does not want to go though the pain of carring a child or having it, I don't think making them do it is the answer. And yeah, adoption does not solve unwanted pregnancys, but if the woman cannot get an abortion, and does not want the child, where will it go?

I know that if I could not get an abortion I would try my hardest to induce a miscarriage. Alcohol, herbs, doing all the things they tell you NOT to do while pregnant, etc. I am against giving birth and putting the infant into the adoption system. I believe that people should give birth to wanted children. I know I can't stop other people, so I myself will not add to the crowded adoption system.

[Nonesuch Solo]

[I am teh Haruka]

TheChemicalGirl

Mafioso the Italian

I personally believe abortion is wrong, but I think it's an even greater wrong to deprive women of that choice.

I agree. Although when you have sex you should be aware of the situations that can occure due to sex, Women should be given the right to choose.

I'm pretty sure that everyone who has sex knows that they can get pregnant.

But how many heterosexual couples who have sex are thinking, "Man, it's likely we could conceive"?

I've heard so many people on the various webforums I frequent say something similar to this:

"OMG, it was my first time, I had no idea I could get pregnant my first time, I thought stuff like this doesn't happen to people like me, omg what do I do?"

You hear that more often than not from teens.

Y'know what my "health" class in high school said regarding sex?

The teacher asked us to write down all our stances on abortion and sex before marriage, and whether or not we were sexually active, collected them, and read them all while we sat there. She said, "Okay, so, most of you are sexually active, most of you think it's OK to have sex before marriage, and most of you are OK with abortion." Next, she went on about how much she LOVES to have sex with her husband, and how it's a WONDERFUL thing, and she does it ALL the time. She mentioned that she has a few containers of her breast milk stored away in her freezer in case her 8- or 13-year-old would ever want some again. Then she showed us a condom package, and sent us on our merry way.

Wo0t for Education! *rolls eyes* (I went to a private school, and we were SO not a microcosm for all school systems, everywhere. But with the amount of people claiming that sex ed is lacking in the public school systems, I wouldn't be surprised if public school kids have given little thought to the possibilities of pregnancy. At that age, you're thinking about having fun, about who you want to be when the world is watching, about who you want to be associated with, not about what, exactly, having sex could cause in your body.)

[I am teh Haruka]

TheChemicalGirl

But what they don't know is...if they think the way I do..which I doubt..is the guilt of harming..and ending the life of an unborn child/fetus. That will always be with them...no matter what.

http://imnotsorry.net

Some women don't feel like that.

But when you hear from a woman who does feel like that, it breaks your heart.

...well, at least mine.

I've never gone into an abortion clinic, nor for counseling about whether or not to have an abortion...do the people tell girls that these feelings are a possibility? Do they even address the emotional side of abortion?

Sometime, among all the "This is what we will do, physically," does anyone ever say to these women that "We don't know how you, personally, will react emotionally"?

Just curious. I wouldn't know from experience, and I hesitate to bring up the topic with friends who have recently gone through it.

sachiko_sohma

God people your not getting the frinken point, it's like talking to a wall or something.

Point is you have sex and if you get pregnant they your at fault.

Said nothing about abortions there.

Hopefully something similar has been said in the next couple of pages:

Pro-Choice people tend to see what YOU are saying as "If you are guilty, you should be punished." If you are AT FAULT (which means the same thing as "guilty" wink you should bear the child (which they believe makes the child a punishment, not a blessing).

Big_Ass_Guitar_Gun

if pregnacy is a punishment for willingly having sex than were does the man stand in this? it'd be unfair if the woman gets punished & the man just takes off! it takes two people for one to make a fetus.

Umpteen years of child support payments, of course!

roffle...

earthss_darkness

The ONLY excusses are if a girl got raped or if the chick's about to die! that's it!

In a life-and-death situation, I see "pro-lifers" agreeing to abortion as making, well, some sort of sense.

If it's an issue of rape, um, I can't see the logic from a "pro-life" standpoint. Because then you get into the argument of whether or not it's "her fault" and that language tends to make pregnant women feel like their spawn are PUNISHMENT.

Can't wrap my mind around that, no.

ChupaChub

I'm not saying that they are worth less. For one, I could not stand killing the fetus, even if I was raped. And if the abortions are mostly done on wemon that use protecton, ues 2 condoms. And I heard that abortions are paied for at school when our teacher had my class mates and I discuss this issue.

If you use two condoms, the friction between the two layers makes it very likely that both will tear.

Using one is more effective.

However, it's quite obvious that either MANY humans have very poor senses of logic, or MANY humans have been misinformed from some other source.

Perhaps a school? (ohnoes!)

[rawrness1234]

MipsyKitten

ChupaChub

DarkFire168

ChupaChub

1) Well, I don't like killing. But most wemon would be very un happy and angry if they had some sicko's child in them. What if the person was on drugs. Then they might have a crack baby. Wouch would do the baby lots of harm. And most likely, the parents would not want the baby anyways, then it would go to a foster home or get addopted. Which is good in a way.

2 and 3) thanks for clearing those up for me. Especially number three. 3nodding

1) How do you think women would feel if they had an unwanted fetus in them anyway? To quote my girlfriend "If I'm forced to keep a fetus in me against my will, it's the equivalent of rape in my view." And besides, adoption doesn't solve unwanted pregnancy, only unwanted parenting.

2 and 3) No probs. That's what this thread is for.

1) It might fell like rape to them. If somebody does not want to go though the pain of carring a child or having it, I don't think making them do it is the answer. And yeah, adoption does not solve unwanted pregnancys, but if the woman cannot get an abortion, and does not want the child, where will it go?

I know that if I could not get an abortion I would try my hardest to induce a miscarriage. Alcohol, herbs, doing all the things they tell you NOT to do while pregnant, etc. I am against giving birth and putting the infant into the adoption system. I believe that people should give birth to wanted children. I know I can't stop other people, so I myself will not add to the crowded adoption system.

Agreed. 3nodding

[Issabee]

ChupaChub

I do not like abortion. In my point of view, its murder.

That may be your point of view, but because abortion is legal, it cannot be considered murder. Murder is a legal term, and by definition, is the UNLAWFUL killing of another person.

ChupaChub

And its against peoples rights.

A woman has the right to bodily integrity. Forcing her to carry an unwanted fetus to term is infringing on this right.

ChupaChub

But supreme court says that a fetus is not born yet and does not have any rights at all. But they should, for they are still human beings and are living things. Even if they are not yet born.

By giving fetuses these rights, you are removing rights from women who do not wish to remain pregnant. By making abortion illegal, you are giving fetuses the right to subjegate a woman's body against her will. Like TPauSilver said, no person has the right to subjegate a woman's body, so why should an unborn fetus have this right?

ChupaChub

But I think abortion is alright under certain areas. Like if a woman is raped or if giving birth to the baby will kill her.

So, if you believe fetuses should have the right to life, why is a fetus concieved through rape any different? You can't just say some fetuses deserve to live and some should be killed. Which is why if abortion is ever made illegal (I doubt it will, though) it most likely won't include rape as an excuse to abort. Because some women who are desperate to rid themselves of an unwanted fetus may accuse an innocent man of rape in order to get an abortion.

ChupaChub

Yes, I believe that woman have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies, but if you don't want the baby, don't have un-protected sex in the first place.

Er, you do realise that the majority of unwanted pregnancies are a result of failed protection? The majority of couples DID use protection. But none of them are 100% effective. The pill fails for 1 in every 100 women. Think of how many women have sex each day, and are on the pill. That's a lot of unplanned pregnancies. The condom is less than 90% effective. Not even getting your tubes tied is 100% effective. The only way a woman could never get pregnant is if she has her entire womb taken out.

ChupaChub

And aborton is paied by tax payes, I think that if a woman wants an abortion other then rape or endangering her life, she should pay for it herself. I am not sure how much abortions will cost though...

Abortions cost somewhere between $300 to $700. (And I thought that the women had to pay for abortions themselves). Giving birth, however, will cost thousands, depending on how much care the mother and/or child will need. If she needs a c-section, the cost shoots up. And caring for a child up until he/she is 18 costs a whole lot more. Many women who you would want to force to carry an unwanted fetus to term will go onto welfare to support that child. You pay a lot more taxes for this sort of thing than you do for abortions.

[MipsyKitten]

ChupaChub

MipsyKitten

ChupaChub

And if the abortions are mostly done on wemon that use protecton, ues 2 condoms.

I know you ahve been corrected on the issue, but endulge me: Where on Earth did you eahr that using two condoms would help against pregnancy?

Logic: Most condoms are made from rubber. What happens when you rub rubber together? Do it now. Take two erasers and rub them together, then tough the part where they touched. Come back and tell me what youd discovered and tell me why I'm asking this question.

I'm not insulting you, I'm seriously curious as to what your friends/school is teaching you.

Thats what my teachers have been telling the kids at our school. That using to condoms will even more lessing your chances of getting pregnate. And I'm not taking it as an insult. I just have been mis-tought. XP

What kind of school do you go too? You need to b***h slap your teachers and point them in the direction of commn sense.

If you use two condoms together, they will rip because of the friction. You might as well have not used one at all. You'd get the same results.

Using condoms and the pill/patch/other form of contraception however, is perfectly fine (and encouraged!). If the 97% safe condom fails you'd still have the 99% pill to fall back on. It's true, most women who have abortions are in theit 20's, used protections and most of them have given birth. Teenagers make up the smallest percentage of women who have abortions.

[Awann]

MipsyKitten

ChupaChub

DarkFire168

ChupaChub

1) Well, I don't like killing. But most wemon would be very un happy and angry if they had some sicko's child in them. What if the person was on drugs. Then they might have a crack baby. Wouch would do the baby lots of harm. And most likely, the parents would not want the baby anyways, then it would go to a foster home or get addopted. Which is good in a way.

2 and 3) thanks for clearing those up for me. Especially number three. 3nodding

1) How do you think women would feel if they had an unwanted fetus in them anyway? To quote my girlfriend "If I'm forced to keep a fetus in me against my will, it's the equivalent of rape in my view." And besides, adoption doesn't solve unwanted pregnancy, only unwanted parenting.

2 and 3) No probs. That's what this thread is for.

1) It might fell like rape to them. If somebody does not want to go though the pain of carring a child or having it, I don't think making them do it is the answer. And yeah, adoption does not solve unwanted pregnancys, but if the woman cannot get an abortion, and does not want the child, where will it go?

I know that if I could not get an abortion I would try my hardest to induce a miscarriage. Alcohol, herbs, doing all the things they tell you NOT to do while pregnant, etc. I am against giving birth and putting the infant into the adoption system. I believe that people should give birth to wanted children. I know I can't stop other people, so I myself will not add to the crowded adoption system.

Indeed.....this is exactly wht we shouldn`t ever try to force people keeping unwanted children and what justice is it to let these poor abandoned children suffer in inhuman system.with free abortions for all women could mean less of these tragic stories.

[MipsyKitten]

I guess I should state my stance.

I am pro-choice. I believe that women should not be limited to abortions only during the first trimester. There are many things which prevent her from getting one eg. abusive spouse, illness, simply not knowing.

I believe that no one should be able to force her to remain pregnant, or abort if she doesn't want too. I will give my thoughts if they are asked for, but a woman should always look at her situation and use her head if she finds out she's pregnant. Sometimes abortion is best for everyone involved, sometimes it's not.

I personally will never give birth. If I were to ever get pregnant I would abort. I am sexually active and I use contraception. I don't believe not wanting children should affect my happiness or physical needs. If someone else doens't want children and doesn't want sex, that's fine. It's not for me. I will not change the way I feel because other people are uncomfortable or disagree with my choices. They are my choices. I live with them. You don't.