The Abortion Debate

[Zero Fail]

Articlion

Cynderbolt

Articlion

It states that all human life is hand crafted by god. That God knows everything about you. How he loves you so much, he knows every hair on your skull. It shows that god values life, and that a humans life is sacred. Even BEFORE birth.

But god also commands rape and killings too. Don't forget the stoning of rape victims-- and we're not talking Bud Light here.

No he doesnt. He says spread your seed, to breed your enemies out. Your manipulating the texts.

MEn are suppose to die for their wives, women are supposed to be submissive to their husbands. Society took a huge turn on us. Where women have become obnoxious. Where they act on emotions, and not of thought. They are trigger happy, and quick to point the finger. This is fact. Not a sexist statemeant. Stereo type, possibly, but just because it is one, doesn't mean this is no truth to it. Men are supposed to run the house. (note some women are more masculine, some women are feminine, these rules surely won't apply to everyone.)

I don't know where I am getting with this. so never mind, but this is how things are supposed to be run. and they are not.

ha, that is totally sexist, wow, you got me laughing so hard from that, oh, I needed a good laugh

[Nethilia]

What the Bible says about Abortion

Abortion is not murder. A fetus is not considered a human life.

"If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life." -- Exodus 21:22-23

The Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old.

"And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver." -- Leviticus 27:6

Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.

"Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD." -- Numbers 3:15-16

God sometimes approves of killing fetuses.

"Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts." -- Hosea 9:14

"Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb." -- Hosea 9:16

"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." -- Hosea 13:16

God sometimes kills newborn babies to punish their parents.

"Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die." -- 2 Samuel 12:14

God sometimes causes abortions by cursing unfaithful wives.

"The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ...
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed." -- Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28

God's law sometimes requires the execution (by burning to death) of pregnant women.

"Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt." -- Genesis 38:24

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/abortion.html

[Alexandra Trannyth]

Articlion

No he doesnt. He says spread your seed, to breed your enemies out. Your manipulating the texts.

MEn are suppose to die for their wives, women are supposed to be submissive to their husbands. Society took a huge turn on us. Where women have become obnoxious. Where they act on emotions, and not of thought. They are trigger happy, and quick to point the finger. This is fact. Not a sexist statemeant. Stereo type, possibly, but just because it is one, doesn't mean this is no truth to it. Men are supposed to run the house. (note some women are more masculine, some women are feminine, these rules surely won't apply to everyone.)

I don't know where I am getting with this. so never mind, but this is how things are supposed to be run. and they are not.

AHAHAHAAA! What, are you saying women should be gentle little lamb footstools and stay at home mummies and not be educated and out and about in the world? Dude, where the hell were you when the 50's ended? Sorry, but no.

[ShadowIce]

Articlion

MEn are suppose to die for their wives, women are supposed to be submissive to their husbands. Society took a huge turn on us. Where women have become obnoxious. Where they act on emotions, and not of thought. They are trigger happy, and quick to point the finger. This is fact. Not a sexist statemeant. Stereo type, possibly, but just because it is one, doesn't mean this is no truth to it. Men are supposed to run the house. (note some women are more masculine, some women are feminine, these rules surely won't apply to everyone.)

I don't know where I am getting with this. so never mind, but this is how things are supposed to be run. and they are not.

So . . . I'm supposed to submit to some random guy?

That's . . . creepy. If I get pregnant and my husband wants me to abort, should I submit to his will?

Besides, every last experience I've ever had with a guy says submitting to them is a bad, bad idea.

[pidgezero_one]

Hotaru-Neko

1. Read 5 on the one above.

2. Do you think the babies are willing to be dismemebered? Do you think they have any say in whether their mom lets them live?

'Babies' in the incorrect sense the term is being used, aren't willing to do anything. They don't care. They can't care. I'm going to quote Talon-chan:

Quote:

Do you want to do ablablablablablidbla? Do you feel your life is any less because you haven't participated in ablablablablablidbla? If you could do ablablablablablidbla would you?

The fact is you don't know what ablablablablablidbla is, you don't know what you're missing, you've never experienced it, and as such you can't say you're hurt by not having known it.

A fetus cannot "want" to live because it doesn't know what it means to live.

That's precisely how a developing fetus feels about life.

Hotaru-Neko

3. That doesn't change the fact that they cannot conceive life by themselfs though. When they meet, that's when the pieces of the puzzle fit together and life is formed.

That doesn't mean much, though. A fetus at the time of legal abortion is no more sentient than one of the individual puzzle pieces.

Hotaru-Neko

4. Maybe differently, but it's still dependant on a life other than themselves.

At this point, the mother has most likely agreed to let the fetus grow and be socially (rather than physically) dependant on someone, perhaps herself. She did not consent to getting pregnant, though.

Hotaru-Neko

5. What I said on number 7 up there.

Right and wrong cannot be universal; they are subjective. What's right for you may not particularly be right for me.

Hotaru-Neko

6. Sad part is most people don't, which is why this is legal in the first place.

I don't really find that sad. Abortion in this sense is black and white; it's either the fetus over the mother, or the mother over the fetus. I'd give the rights to the already-born rather than the potentially-born.

Hotaru-Neko

7. Someone not having enough time for a kid isn't life threatening. That's what most said in the stories, or it was inconvenient to have a child then. And as for the mother having a chance of complications, I can tell you right now that NOBODY is against allowing abortion in those cases. If the woman's life is introuble, they need to be safed first and formost.

I've met people who are. They've said that to take another's, even a fetus's, life to save your own is cowardly. I honestly can NOT see where they are coming from, though.

Hotaru-Neko

8. Lookie at number.. 10 up there. Their are plently of people who would, without any planning and even if it disrupted their lives a bit.. would take in a child.

9. The only problem is getting those kids to those people, which is hard because unless you know them personally it's VERY hard to make sure they are good people, and not adopting for bad reasons. But if you go to church and show a child who needs a home, I'm sure many many families, those who already have children as well would definally consider it.

Then why can't they do it for one of the children who already need to be taken in, rather than pushing them aside for one that will need it if not aborted?

[Articlion]

ShadowIce

Articlion

MEn are suppose to die for their wives, women are supposed to be submissive to their husbands. Society took a huge turn on us. Where women have become obnoxious. Where they act on emotions, and not of thought. They are trigger happy, and quick to point the finger. This is fact. Not a sexist statemeant. Stereo type, possibly, but just because it is one, doesn't mean this is no truth to it. Men are supposed to run the house. (note some women are more masculine, some women are feminine, these rules surely won't apply to everyone.)

I don't know where I am getting with this. so never mind, but this is how things are supposed to be run. and they are not.

So . . . I'm supposed to submit to some random guy?

That's . . . creepy. If I get pregnant and my husband wants me to abort, should I submit to his will?

Besides, every last experience I've ever had with a guy says submitting to them is a bad, bad idea.

Not to any man, and i never said women are to be uneducated at all. Again, putting words in my mouths. I said that women should obey their husbands. And with that being said, their man should die for her.

[Zero Fail]

Articlion

ShadowIce

Articlion

MEn are suppose to die for their wives, women are supposed to be submissive to their husbands. Society took a huge turn on us. Where women have become obnoxious. Where they act on emotions, and not of thought. They are trigger happy, and quick to point the finger. This is fact. Not a sexist statemeant. Stereo type, possibly, but just because it is one, doesn't mean this is no truth to it. Men are supposed to run the house. (note some women are more masculine, some women are feminine, these rules surely won't apply to everyone.)

I don't know where I am getting with this. so never mind, but this is how things are supposed to be run. and they are not.

So . . . I'm supposed to submit to some random guy?

That's . . . creepy. If I get pregnant and my husband wants me to abort, should I submit to his will?

Besides, every last experience I've ever had with a guy says submitting to them is a bad, bad idea.

Not to any man, and i never said women are to be uneducated at all. Again, putting words in my mouths. I said that women should obey their husbands. And with that being said, their man should die for her.

she never said anything like that first sentence...you're the one putting words in her mouth actually...

[CAPTAIN Plixy[Stix]]

Articlion

Not to any man, and i never said women are to be uneducated at all. Again, putting words in my mouths. I said that women should obey their husbands. And with that being said, their man should die for her.

So if my husband says that I should go jump off a cliff, I should?

I don't think so.

[ShadowIce]

Articlion

Not to any man, and i never said women are to be uneducated at all. Again, putting words in my mouths. I said that women should obey their husbands. And with that being said, their man should die for her.

And I never said you said women should be completely uneducated. Besides, if I'm not mistaken, the bible says my father (who is evil) is to be the one to pick my husband (at the very least, that is what is done in the OT; it may not be stated, it has been a while since I debated religion). And my question about obeying my husband who says I should get an abortion still applies. And a man being willing to die for a woman doesn't mean he'll be a good husband. He can still beat the crap out of her and think he's doing it for her own good.

EDIT: But as Haruka said, this is all getting off topic, so if you want to talk about the bible and marriage, PM or something. Just answer about the abortion thing on this board 3nodding

[TPauSilver]

Articlion

Not to any man, and i never said women are to be uneducated at all. Again, putting words in my mouths. I said that women should obey their husbands. And with that being said, their man should die for her.

So, if my husband says I have to have sex with him, I should obey him? And if my husband tells me not to let anyone know I beat him, I should? And if my husband tells me not to tell the police or anyone or attempt to run away when he molests our daughter I should obey him?

Hell, less then that

When my husband asks for my pay check so he can booze, I should give it him? When my husband calls me a good for nothing fat cow, I should get him? When my husband demands I have a kid though I don't want one, I should? When my husband tells me to stop work and stay home, I should quit my job just like that?

[Alexandra Trannyth]

Articlion

ShadowIce

Articlion

MEn are suppose to die for their wives, women are supposed to be submissive to their husbands. Society took a huge turn on us. Where women have become obnoxious. Where they act on emotions, and not of thought. They are trigger happy, and quick to point the finger. This is fact. Not a sexist statemeant. Stereo type, possibly, but just because it is one, doesn't mean this is no truth to it. Men are supposed to run the house. (note some women are more masculine, some women are feminine, these rules surely won't apply to everyone.)

I don't know where I am getting with this. so never mind, but this is how things are supposed to be run. and they are not.

So . . . I'm supposed to submit to some random guy?

That's . . . creepy. If I get pregnant and my husband wants me to abort, should I submit to his will?

Besides, every last experience I've ever had with a guy says submitting to them is a bad, bad idea.

Not to any man, and i never said women are to be uneducated at all. Again, putting words in my mouths. I said that women should obey their husbands. And with that being said, their man should die for her.

You're skirting the issue. By your meaning, I'd have to obey my husband if he told me to go jump off a bridge, abort, or have sex with his six friends. No ******** way.

[CAPTAIN Plixy[Stix]]

Marriage isn't about one person obeying another.

It's about compromise. But this is getting off topic.

[Goddess Hekate]

Articlion

ShadowIce

Articlion

MEn are suppose to die for their wives, women are supposed to be submissive to their husbands. Society took a huge turn on us. Where women have become obnoxious. Where they act on emotions, and not of thought. They are trigger happy, and quick to point the finger. This is fact. Not a sexist statemeant. Stereo type, possibly, but just because it is one, doesn't mean this is no truth to it. Men are supposed to run the house. (note some women are more masculine, some women are feminine, these rules surely won't apply to everyone.)

I don't know where I am getting with this. so never mind, but this is how things are supposed to be run. and they are not.

So . . . I'm supposed to submit to some random guy?

That's . . . creepy. If I get pregnant and my husband wants me to abort, should I submit to his will?

Besides, every last experience I've ever had with a guy says submitting to them is a bad, bad idea.

Not to any man, and i never said women are to be uneducated at all. Again, putting words in my mouths. I said that women should obey their husbands. And with that being said, their man should die for her.

Please read Henrik Ibsens Play "Doll's House" And you'll see how society worked back in the 19th centuary, it's awfully close to what you want to impose on us.

[Mistress DragonFlame]

Articlion

Not to any man, and i never said women are to be uneducated at all. Again, putting words in my mouths. I said that women should obey their husbands. And with that being said, their man should die for her.

I'll never marry a guy then. Case solved, this point is moot.

And frankly, even if I did marry a guy, I don't want him dying for me. I'd rather die myself then have the one I love die (which would be the reason I would marry him).

You should not determin what other's should do.

[Natas Ferret]

Articlion

Not to any man, and i never said women are to be uneducated at all. Again, putting words in my mouths. I said that women should obey their husbands. And with that being said, their man should die for her.

Haha...hah...hahahahah....
Ahem... You'd make a "wonderful" ...er... "husband," someday.... snerk.

What, pray tell, makes you believe such things are to be held in this way?