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Articlion
TPauSilver
Articlion
Beatrix the catgirl
Articlion
If she didn't want to be pregnant, she should have taken the nessacary percautions.
Guess what? I was on BIRTH CONTROL when I got pregnant. There is no 100% effective contraception against pregnancy.
Then you should have used a condom with birth control, along with spermacides, and a cervix wall. IF your going to use contraceptives, don't use them half assed.

Your still irresponsible.
You shoudln't use more then one barrier method, as in a physical barrier. I can't take hormonal contraceptives, I have something that causes there to be more fluid on my brain when my hormones mess about, it in itself is benign but it can cause bleed on the brain and death...incidentally, my Gran died of a bleed on the brain after her second pregnancy. It is likely that pregnancy would mess with my hormones like the pill, so it's more possible then for most people that a pregnancy would kill me.

A condom and a cervix wall can, and is recomened to be used together, because a condom will not break from a cervix wall. There is no friction between the two.
Fair enough, still, say they have a 1% familure rate each, ther's 0.1% combined, that means 1 in every 1000 women using them will get pregnant. How many people have sex every day?
Beatrix the catgirl
EndlessDark
Beatrix the catgirl
EndlessDark
I'd say I fall into the category Pro-Choice buts.
Personally I would hate to have an abortion because I would feel very guilty at taking away a life but I think it depends on the circumstances...as mentioned in the first post, like rape etc...

I believe that abortions should take places BEFORE the baby has developed, within the first 6 weeks...

I believe that pregnancies should always be planned...everyone should have safe sex, it's a very simple thing to do and people are just too lazy and careless no matter how much they are warned...birth control can fail...and that's understandable, but there are too many people who don't even use condoms or pills.
Many women do not know they are pregnant before the first six weeks. When I found out I was pregnant, I was already over two months along.


true...I guess it's better to give birth and give the child up for adoption rather than have an abortion, at least then it has a chance at life.
I just think in some cases abortion is understandable, like if it's someone under 15 etc
Adoption does not solve the problem where the woman does not want to remain pregnant.

Here is what can happen in a pregnancy:

These are the normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:

-- exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
-- altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
-- nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
-- heartburn and indigestion
-- constipation
-- weight gain
-- dizziness and light-headedness
-- bloating, swelling, fluid retention
-- hemmorhoids
-- abdominal cramps
-- yeast infections
-- congested, bloody nose
-- acne and mild skin disorders
-- skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
-- mild to severe backache and strain
-- increased headaches
-- difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
-- increased urination and incontinence
-- bleeding gums
-- pica
-- breast pain and discharge
-- swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain
-- difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy
-- inability to take regular medications
-- shortness of breath
-- higher blood pressure
-- hair loss
-- tendency to anemia
-- curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities
-- infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
-- extreme pain on delivery
-- hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
-- continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

These are the normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

-- stretch marks (worse in younger women)
-- loose skin
-- permanent weight gain or redistribution
-- abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
-- pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life)
-- changes to breasts
-- varicose veins
-- scarring from episiotomy or c-section
-- other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
-- increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
-- loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)

These are the occasional complications and side effects:

-- hyperemesis gravidarum
-- temporary and permanent injury to back
-- severe scarring requiring later surgery (especially after additional pregnancies)
-- dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
-- pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
-- eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
-- gestational diabetes
-- placenta previa
-- anemia (which can be life-threatening)
-- thrombocytopenic purpura
-- severe cramping
-- embolism (blood clots)
-- medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
-- diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
-- mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
-- serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
-- hormonal imbalance
-- ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
-- broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone" wink
-- hemorrhage and
-- numerous other complications of delivery
-- refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
-- aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
-- severe post-partum depression and psychosis
-- research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
-- research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
-- research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

These are some less common (but serious) complications:

-- peripartum cardiomyopathy
-- cardiopulmonary arrest
-- magnesium toxicity
-- severe hypoxemia/acidosis
-- massive embolism
-- increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
-- molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease (like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
-- malignant arrhythmia
-- circulatory collapse
-- placental abruption
-- obstetric fistula

And a few more permanent side effects:

-- future infertility
-- permanent disability
-- death

Why must there be an age where it's okay for a woman to get an abortion? Why after 15 is a woman okay to have a child?


WAy to copy from someone else's work in a previous post. Fine if you want to use this....

There are equally, possibly more from having SEX. So fine, don't have sex! Because that alone is a lot more dangerous.
TPauSilver
Articlion
TPauSilver
Articlion
Beatrix the catgirl
Articlion
If she didn't want to be pregnant, she should have taken the nessacary percautions.
Guess what? I was on BIRTH CONTROL when I got pregnant. There is no 100% effective contraception against pregnancy.
Then you should have used a condom with birth control, along with spermacides, and a cervix wall. IF your going to use contraceptives, don't use them half assed.

Your still irresponsible.
You shoudln't use more then one barrier method, as in a physical barrier. I can't take hormonal contraceptives, I have something that causes there to be more fluid on my brain when my hormones mess about, it in itself is benign but it can cause bleed on the brain and death...incidentally, my Gran died of a bleed on the brain after her second pregnancy. It is likely that pregnancy would mess with my hormones like the pill, so it's more possible then for most people that a pregnancy would kill me.

A condom and a cervix wall can, and is recomened to be used together, because a condom will not break from a cervix wall. There is no friction between the two.
Fair enough, still, say they have a 1% familure rate each, ther's 0.1% combined, that means 1 in every 1000 women using them will get pregnant. How many people have sex every day?


That .01 percent is just so they don't get sued. It can actually be smaller.
There are married couples who don't want kids.

Should they refrain from sex forever?

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Articlion


This is still based on decisions you make, we don't have the phyiscal ability with muscles, to push the baby out of our systems, such as rabbits supposedly do.


Rabbits reabsorb fetuses. They jsut dissolve out of the body.

Using your logic, we shouldn't fly because we weren't given wings.

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Sure we can take poisons, but would a good mother do that?


A pregnant woman, unless she has previous children she is raising, is not a mother. If a woman seriously wants to abort, she'll find any method she can. A michigan girl had her boyfriend beat her with a baseball bat. You think other women won't do the same? Convenient(sp?) falls, a little TOO much booze, ect.

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Accidently sure, but this is intentional, because your to lazy to do things properly, and you like to creat scape goats to make your self a little more nobel.


Yes, I'd intentiaonally abort. So would other women who don't want to be pregnant. And they have every right to not subject themselves to the strain of being pregnant simply because YOU, who has no uterus and will never suffer being pregnant, think that if they abort it's a sin against your personal deity.

And you like to use a invisible angry man to tell people to do what you say, using fear and scaring to intimidate people. Not going to work with me. It's all emotional ploys.

cat faced killa's Fangirl

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Articlion
WAy to copy from someone else's work in a previous post. Fine if you want to use this....

There are equally, possibly more from having SEX. So fine, don't have sex! Because that alone is a lot more dangerous.
Can you find me 1 person who's willing to abstain their whole lives just because someone else doesn't like the way they would deal with the consequences?
whoa that's alot of symptoms sweatdrop
I just used 15 as an example but after a certain age (don't know what that is specifically) a woman is old enough to make an educated decision and old enough to raise a child..I know that there are ALOT of facts that point out a woman may in no certain terms be able to look after a child...she might not have enough money etc, so I'm not saying everyone over a certain age is capable of raising a child..but hardly anyone under the age of say, 15, is old enough to look after a child on their own...
To be honest, I think it's all down to the individual and their choice...no-one should make up the mother's mind for her...

about adoptions..yeah, alot of children are mistreated when they become adopted, but some also find loving homes...if you really wanted to give your child up to adoption you should be able to see how they are doing etc...the agency themselves should make sure the child never gets mistreated...
I'm updating the rules a bit just so everyone knows...

I've browsed (lightly) through the past twenty or so pages that have formed since last night...

Calling people "Baby-killers" (looking at you articlion) is, in fact, flaming.
Typing in all caps and questioning one's intelligence rather than responding to what was said (looking at you DarkFire) is, in fact, flaming.

It's looks like things have calmed down a bit since last night... but seriously stay away from those behaviors... they are what got the last thread closed (well that and random spammers).
pidgezero_one
Articlion
This is still based on decisions you make, we don't have the phyiscal ability with muscles, to push the baby out of our systems, such as rabbits supposedly do. Sure we can take poisons, but would a good mother do that? Accidently sure, but this is intentional, because your to lazy to do things properly, and you like to creat scape goats to make your self a little more nobel.
Who's making scapegoats?
If anything it's more of a "I don't have to justify myself to you" sort of thing. Perhaps if there were less people trying to point fingers and make women feel ashamed for aborting, they wouldn't NEED to "make scapegoats".
Facts remains, you should feel ashamed! If you don't then there is something psychologically wrong with you! Not not feel guilty of a death a child, because you dont want responsiblilty, well agian, its selfish.

cat faced killa's Fangirl

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Talon-chan, are you going to be including Prescriptive Fallacy on the front page?

I've got a great quote of it if you'd like >.>;
Talon-chan
I'm updating the rules a bit just so everyone knows...

I've browsed (lightly) through the past twenty or so pages that have formed since last night...

Calling people "Baby-killers" (looking at you articlion) is, in fact, flaming.
Typing in all caps and questioning one's intelligence rather than responding to what was said (looking at you DarkFire) is, in fact, flaming.

It's looks like things have calmed down a bit since last night... but seriously stay away from those behaviors... they are what got the last thread closed (well that and random spammers).
If its not killing? What is it? To be labeled a killer, you must kill. I myself am a Mosquito Killer. People who abort are baby killers, its not flaming, its the truth.

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Articlion


WAy to copy from someone else's work in a previous post.


Actually, that is a list compiled from another site, using research on the many things that can and do happen during the course of a pregnancy as listed in medical books. Any one can use that list or make one of thier own. We have just centralized the post so that many of us pro-choicers can easily list the dangers of pregnancy. We don't mind sharing information after careful scrutiny.

Quote:
Fine if you want to use this....

There are equally, possibly more from having SEX. So fine, don't have sex! Because that alone is a lot more dangerous.


Don't leave your house. You might have someone run you over.

Don't get in a car. You might crash into a wall and break your neck.

Don't go to church. It might get firebombed.

Don't post on the internet. Someone might tell you and your god to go ******** themselves.

Wealthy Werewolf

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Articlion
Not all fetuses are going to kill you.


Well no s**t, Sherlock. If that were true, there'd be no more humans in a short 100 years.

Quote:
You don't even let that chance occur, you kill them immediatly.


Lets see... Give a chance to be killed, or not... Hm. Gee, I wonder what I'll choose?

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There are special cases where women have their life in an immediate threat. At that time, then I think most, even biblical people will say yes, it is okay with the women to abort the child to specifcally save the mothers life.


Actually, I met this one person once who said to let them both die, rather then abort the child.

Quote:
To say that all fetusis are putting your life at risk, well, everything you do puts your life at risk.


From the momen you're born, you're dying. However, I can choose what puts my life in even MORE threat of death.

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I bet at least one of you who has used this arguement, Smokes. Drinks. Has open sex with multiple potentially diseased people. You can't hold arguements with one thing and not the other. Im sure more people have died from Cigarettes, poor eating diets and alchohol, then they have from bearing children.


If you factor out men (because they can't die from child birth anyway), the number one killer of women in the world, is child birth. I think Monoquill has the link for the statisitcs of that, however.

cat faced killa's Fangirl

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Articlion
pidgezero_one
Articlion
This is still based on decisions you make, we don't have the phyiscal ability with muscles, to push the baby out of our systems, such as rabbits supposedly do. Sure we can take poisons, but would a good mother do that? Accidently sure, but this is intentional, because your to lazy to do things properly, and you like to creat scape goats to make your self a little more nobel.
Who's making scapegoats?
If anything it's more of a "I don't have to justify myself to you" sort of thing. Perhaps if there were less people trying to point fingers and make women feel ashamed for aborting, they wouldn't NEED to "make scapegoats".
Facts remains, you should feel ashamed! If you don't then there is something psychologically wrong with you! Not not feel guilty of a death a child, because you dont want responsiblilty, well agian, its selfish.
No, you shouldn't have to feel ashamed. That's just being self-righteous and elitist over anything. For people trying to defend the unborn, it sure seems like you have little consideration for the born undergoing one of the most drastic dituations they could ever be faced with. confused

www.imnotsorry.net
I dare you to prove to me that each of those women has psychological difficulty.
There is NOTHING WRONG with being selfish. I'm selfish for having a computer instead of giving it to someone who doesn't. I'm selfish for eating 3 meals a day instead of giving my food to someone who doesn't. I'm selfish for getting money for Christmas and spending it on manga than giving it to the less fortunate. We're all selfish.

(Sorry I'm being rather snippy today. sad )
Hotaru-Neko
Seeing posts after posts like these make me lose faith in mankind. -_-


And seeing posts like yours are what made me lose my faith in mankind years ago. Welcome to the club. Do you want a cookie?

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Anywho, I'm pro-life and very proud of it.


Pro-choice and proud of it, nice to meet you.

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I've been that way for only a year, and before that i was very much pro-choice untill I started to go out with my b/f... I leared a lot of things that made me very inbetween because I couldnt' exactly say I was pro-life.. about a month later I did a 6 minute speech on abortion. I picked up this little book that gave both sides of the fight.. and thats when I truely relized how terrible it was. These where the raw facts from both sides and some of those stories made me cry for days. I couldn't belive I ever supported pro-choice, especially after seeing stuff on gaia.. everyone seems so proud about being able to killing their own children.. it's sick.


Would you care to share some of these "stories", the name of this book, and who authored it, because it could just be a load of crap propaganda from the pro-life side.

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